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There certainly has been a ton of complaining about the all district teams and POY so forth. Even some squawking about how significant the award ceremonies were - or more specifically were NOT.

This falls into that whole category of how parents tend to ruin things for kids. None of it matters. If your kids play just to be satisfied by the accolades and of others opinions then they are never going to be anything but disappointed. If you are bent because little Johnie wasn't adored or showered with adulation to your liking who does that benefit?

If you're proud of your kid and their effort - tell them. That should be enough. If they feel slighted - then tell them that needing the praise of others is how eating disorders happen.

Rich Graham

VaCardinals.org

RBASouth.com

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When it's the opinions of people on this board you are right and probably shouldn't care much, but the opinions of the coaches you play for and against over the course of the year probably carry a little more weight. The charges of politics typically come from those who feel their kid was slighted, therefore they come to this site to minimize those selected.
As one who coached and parented...I get it. Parents always have an inflated opinion of their kids abilities...it is designed that way in my opinion.This point was recently driven home when I lost my own Mom.....after a year something was missing in my life - i realized it was that preson that no matter how bad things were going she would pick me up and always viewed me as "the best" - thats what Moms and dads do and I think it is a good thing.
Very true the kids know where they stand and they know who the strong players are...they should have a say although it could become a popularity contest.

Generally my take with my children has been to keep them focused on the things they can control and work like hell...the rest will come and if it doesnt...work harder.
you cant control what anyone does but yourself and everyone must give an accounting at some point as to how they handled things in life.
I hate to hear parents tell their kids "it was politics" instead of "could you have worked harder" - or if politics get in the way that means you have to perform at a level that leaves no doubt.

I truthfully feel that will give the kids a healthy view of how life works...
whether the kids, coaches or anyone else picks - who cares? You don't think there would be mommies and daddies crying about "popularity contest" instead of "politics" if the kids voted? Please.

My point is that none of it matters at all. None of it actually validates whether or not a kid can play. It's all ego and it means absolutely nothing. Or, more accurately, it SHOULD mean absolutely nothing.

If it matters to YOU then you need to ask yourself why. - I promise that there is no reason for it to really matter to you that doesn't boil down to YOUR personal insecurity or need for validation. If your kids are crushed by the lack of fanfare around the ceremony or the fact that they didn't get selected at all then the problem isn't "politics" it's the fact that you've passed along your need for the approval of others to them.

This isn't just a random rant - I deal with the blowback of these awards every year. There are kids from my Cardinals team and RBA South that populate these lists every year. Still doesn't mean anything. There are also very worthy players who get left off the lists who, thankfully, tell me they couldn't care less - those are the kids who are winners. Those are the kids who go on to DI schools while the attention seekers flame out and wash out because that need for outside praise and recognition never gets satisfied fully.

My hope is that a couple parents might read this and gain just enough perspective to stop the cycle.

True satisfaction can only come from within - foster that.
No offense intended, but if indeed "it doesn't matter at all" then why go thru the bloody exercise in the first place? To assert both is to be self contradictory, and BTW, such awards do tend to "matter" - to players, communities, schools, etc.
FWIW, back in my day as player & coach, my personal estimate was that one in four were deserving of such titles (until one reaches the paying levels in a given sport).
The system is flawed! But....isn't most of what happens in high school an example of exactly what happens at the next level and so forth?

In fact these awards are resume builders and are included in the bios of players at the next level. Though I agree that it doesn't always reflect the future, these same awards create monetary compensation even at the collegiate level.

Contracts have clauses that include bonus $$$$$ for these accomplishments unless you are Justin Verlander and MVP wasn't compensated. Which brings me to my point....even at that level....there is contraversy.

Gotta say it is nice seeing ODU grads get those awards!!!!!!
If the "lists" don't mean anything, stop making them, and stop paying attention to them, and stop using them.

Yet, they must mean something, because time and time again, I see players' names that have been recognized on such "lists" posted on Baseball Academy websites, and in Baseball Academy facilities. What is the purpose of these postings if those lists mean nothing?

My point from the beginning, regardless of whether these lists mean anything or not, has been: If one is going to perform a ceremony to recognize these players, then do it right; otherwise, don't do it.
What's the difference between the end of season awards and a trophy for winning a tournament? Not much really. They are both simply indicators of good performance for a specific period. True, many players say that they could care less, and I do believe that during actual competition that is true but I know from experience that they still enjoy the accolades given to them.

The players play the season and don't even give thought to the awards but I know they look for the lists once they are set to come out. The players I know like to banter back and forth about who should get what and so on. It doesn't usually mean much to them in the whole scheme of things but they do discuss it. In some cases I do think it affects them though. One player on our team got selected after a tough season for him. I know the award came out of the blue for him and he was so pumped that he went 3-4 yesterday with 2 home-runs and a double with 5 RBI's in a play-off win. He hadn't hit a home-run all year. So I know that it does mean something to many...

On the flip side I think that it's the parents that normally ruin it. Not sure if it's jealousy or just some sort of hidden competition or something. I had one parent tell me that he was mad because he was trying to get his kid into college at a certain position and since the kid didn't get an award for that spot it would hurt him. (The kid's a senior and I'm thinking that if it hasn't happened yet then the district award probably isn't going to make it happen anyway...)

The bottom line is that I think that the best thing about the awards players get is that when they get old like me they can put them on the wall of their den and brag about the old days...
Last edited by NOVABBall13
For 99.9% of players, the best thing about HS baseball (long term) is learning life lessons. Receiving acclaim with grace and handling situations where one is overlooked with grace are two important life lessons. Being noticed is fun - but not the goal and not the ultimate measure of success. Failure to win an award (make the all-star team - whatever) stings - but is not the end of baseball.

I will say that IF one undertakes to give out awards or have a ceremony - one should attempt to do it with integrity and dignity. Otherwise - why bother.
I read all the responses here, and I felt motivated to post. This is just my opinion – and like it should be, it’s take it or leave it.

The most important thing I believe a player can learn from the game – the most important thing a Coach or Parent can TRY to teach their child, is that the hardest part of this game is letting go of the things you CANNOT control.

It sounds simple enough. It’s said over and over again, and I myself have struggled to try and express to my son and all the players I’ve coached over the years. In reality, it’s something I didn’t realize until after I was injured. Until my competitive playing days were over. An injury unrelated to the game, something that crept out of the shadows.

Something I had ZERO control over. Without the benefit of a crystal ball – and even then I’m not sure I could have avoided it – the result was never something I could have prepared for.

Coaches always like to spout how this game “Teaches young men about life.” Well this IS the main lesson that you can get from this wonderful, sometimes maddeningly frustrating, game. This is THE LESSON.

These recognition awards are definitely something a player cannot control. They don’t choose the winners. They don’t keep the stats. They don’t write the news articles.

They simply put the work in and PLAY the game. Whatever happens after that is NOT up to them. It’s not, and will never be, something they can control.

Why sweat it? I mean as a parent. Why even mention it? ESPECIALLY to your child?

In the grand scheme of things, what does it really matter?

The ONLY thing a player can control is their effort and actions on the field, as it pertains to this game.

A pitcher can’t make the hitter swing and miss at a pitch, he can only throw it. Once it’s out of his fingers, it’s no longer his to worry with, unless he’s put back into motion by the resulting play.

District / Region teams, even players of the year, those rewards are great. I definitely acknowledge the effort and work that many of these kids put in every year to get those awards. But even the kids who receive these honors have no control over them. Their job is prepare, to work, to train – to play the game they do. That’s it. Anything beyond that is way beyond their control.

Arguing over who got what award? Arguing over what goes on in those meetings to determine these awards? Feeling ripped off because you believe this kid or that kid deserves the award more – anything along those lines is simply wasted energy.

Sure it’s easier said than done. As parents, we are wired (most of us) to naturally want to shield our children from harm. Some of us think slights, even perceived slights, fall under this umbrella.

If I’ve learned anything in my time in and around this game, it’s that the majority of all awards, such as these, don’t mean a lot to the players who DON’T get them.

I’m not taking ANYTHING away from the kids who do receive them.

But would these same kids feel mad, embarrassed, or ripped off if they DIDN’T receive them? Let me rephrase. Would these kids feel this way if their parents didn’t bring the subject up?

As parents we do more than shelter and protect our children. We lead by example.

When your son doesn’t make the All Star team, and HE is upset by it, comforting him by telling him that it is okay he DIDN’T make it? That’s fine. That’s parenting. Encourage him at that point to work harder, IF that is what he wants to accomplish the next time around.

Telling him it’s okay he didn’t make it, then going on to tell him it “doesn’t mean anything, because it’s all politics.”? To me that’s NOT okay. You’re telling him that putting forth the effort to achieve a goal is not worth it, since you’re telling him that the process to achieve that goal is rigged against him.

In all honesty? I’ve never met one kid who is still worried about NOT making an All Star team. UNLESS that event is brought up in conversation by someone else (usually a parent) to reinforce the opinion on another event that may have not turned out in a kid’s favor. It’s brought up time and time again.

Why? What good does it do?

I know guys who EXCELLED at every level of the sport. From T-Ball, to Little League, through High School, and onto College. Eventually a few of these guys rose to professional ranks as players. They had ZERO control over whether they got promoted, demoted, released, waived or traded – BEYOND what they did on the field and in preparation to be on the field.

I like to tell my players to “Play the game like they don’t care.” I always explain that.

Of course you care. Competitors always do. Of course you want to win. You want to COMPETE. But the ONLY thing you can really do is PLAY the game. Give it all you have, when you have the chance. Beyond that is out of your control. I’ve seen guys go from good players to GREAT players, by being able to LET GO.

And it can be hard to let go, when your parent is moaning about who made the District team. Would it matter who made it? If it’s not their child, their friend’s child, someone they have a personal stake in, would it have mattered otherwise?

Let them play. When they do bad, don’t try to make it better. Don’t bring up the game after the fact. They already know what they did, or didn’t do. It’s part of the game.

It will all be over one day. Every player has a certain number of games left in them. The reasons that form this number are almost always out of the player’s control, so why sweat it?

We as parents NEED to learn to LET GO.

A lot of things cross my mind when it comes to baseball, and my son’s involvement with the game. Most of it stays right where it started, in my head. It’s not something that needs to be spoken or shared. If it doesn’t HELP, why say it?

Just my two cents worth.
quote:
Originally posted by YesReally:
For 99.9% of players, the best thing about HS baseball (long term) is learning life lessons. Receiving acclaim with grace and handling situations where one is overlooked with grace are two important life lessons. Being noticed is fun - but not the goal and not the ultimate measure of success. Failure to win an award (make the all-star team - whatever) stings - but is not the end of baseball.

I will say that IF one undertakes to give out awards or have a ceremony - one should attempt to do it with integrity and dignity. Otherwise - why bother.



I think that you're right once you get to be an adult and look back at it. My own take though, from listening to the various players that I know, is that they do look at the lists and it does have some measure of importance to them. They are, after all, competitors and that includes end-of-season awards. I believe that it would be a very naive individual who doesn't think that one of the studs around the region wouldn't take it very personally if they were left off the awards list at year's end. I'm not saying that it would affect them in the long run nor am I saying that it would even affect their play but I am saying that they DO place stock in the awards. We parents want it to be about life lessons etc. but when you're young it's all about bragging rights...
As a parent, if you really want to help your kid, get them focused on continuing to improve their game whether or not they made an all district list. As soon as the season is over, the kid should set goals for the next 8 months to prepare for next season whether that is at the high school or college level. If a pitcher, what do they need to do to add velocity and what pitches do they need to continue to refine. As a hitter, what do they need to work on to increase power, batting average, and base running speed. As a fielder, what do they need to work on with respect to footwork and throws across the diamond including velocity. Although personal recognition is nice, it has nothing to do with what you are going to accomplish in the future. A good ball player is more concerned with their next game.

I remember seeing an HBO special about Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. As great as they were, they were also figuring out how they could get better and worrying about whether the other guy was working harder than them. Their focus was always on getting better.
Many players, and people in general, use things such as this as milestones to mark their success along the way. I agree wholeheartedly that one should NEVER set out to earn an award. You set out to compete and play at 100% of capability on any given day. But just like employees use things like bonuses and pay raises to validate their efforts at work players often use the awards to validate a season of effort. Maybe the team failed to succeed but the awards still validate an individuals effort and there is nothing wrong with that. Both being on a list and being off a list brings motivation and I would bet that in many cases its being off the list that brings the true character out of a person. I know its football but Tom Brady points out that it was his spot in the draft that has motivated him to the levels that he has attained as a pro player. As you point out though ctandc its the parents who often ruin things and its up to us to ensure that the lists are kept in the right context and not made to be the centerpiece...
My son has participated in several college combines. They measure 60 times, throwing velocity both pitching and in the field, batting mechanics and power, fielding footwork, size and projectability, and they watch them play live in games. No one has ever asked him if he made an all district list or what the record of his high school or travel team was.
This was started as a perspective string so here's one:

The largest districts have 10 teams. Many districts are in the 5-7 team range. So if you are the 1st team all district player at your position that means you are viewed as being better than a grand total of 4-6 other guys. Is that really something to get all worked up over one way or the other?
quote:
Originally posted by luv baseball:
This was started as a perspective string so here's one:

The largest districts have 10 teams. Many districts are in the 5-7 team range. So if you are the 1st team all district player at your position that means you are viewed as being better than a grand total of 4-6 other guys. Is that really something to get all worked up over one way or the other?


I'm not saying that it means everything but I'm saying that it doesn't mean NOTHING either. From my observations, the players look forward to the lists, check them to see if they match up with their thoughts, talk a bit of junk to each other if things are a little of whack, put the cert in a pile on their dresser if they get one, and then move on. If only the parents kept it in the same context then we'd probably be better off... LOL
quote:
Originally posted by Trucker83:
My son has participated in several college combines. They measure 60 times, throwing velocity both pitching and in the field, batting mechanics and power, fielding footwork, size and projectability, and they watch them play live in games. No one has ever asked him if he made an all district list or what the record of his high school or travel team was.


Agree. During the recruiting process, my son did not experience any inquiries about district/region honors.
But after he signed, one of the first things his new college coach asked for was a listing of all the athletic awards/recognition my son has received during high school. This info was used for their media announcement and media guide.

So since we are discussing "perspectives", I'd say these recognition lists are important from that perspective.
quote:
Originally posted by 1943 yankees:
The system is flawed! But....isn't most of what happens in high school an example of exactly what happens at the next level and so forth?

In fact these awards are resume builders and are included in the bios of players at the next level. Though I agree that it doesn't always reflect the future, these same awards create monetary compensation even at the collegiate level.

Contracts have clauses that include bonus $$$$$ for these accomplishments unless you are Justin Verlander and MVP wasn't compensated. Which brings me to my point....even at that level....there is contraversy.


No. These accolades have absolutely NO monetary value at the next level. No scout ups a signing bonus and no college ups a scholarship based on any of these meaningless high school accolades.

Not at all.

As for incentive clauses in the contracts of professional players - are you seriously comparing the two? lets just offer the additional merchandise sales at the MLB level as an explanation and leave that inane point at that.

What doesn't surprise me is the number of attempts at validating the need to make these subjective lists more important than they are.

I also don't at all find it contrary in nature to offer my opinion as to an all-district or all-region team while also emphasizing how meaningless it is. It's just my opinion. Some value it, some don't - but honestly, it's just as meaningless as anyone else's opinion. Even if I might have some credibility. My point is that it shouldn't matter to any kid who believes in themselves.

Every kid I have ever cut form any team I ever coached I told the same thing to - GO prove me wrong. I hope you do and I will be the first to tell you - and that shouldn't matter either because any player worth his salt knew it all along.
Last edited by R.Graham
Rich,

Call me Captain Obvious but there can be inequities as a result of the methodology. It would appear that every team gets a number of players they can nominate based on how well their team did during district play. The head coaches cast a vote from behind closed doors and there is no accountability. When THAT is the process, it is going to be open to criticism, and people will have opinions. THe process is flawed. That's life too, and more perspective is needed.

All kids like to be recognized by their peers just as anyone likes to be recognized for a job well done across any profession or walk of life. Kids get passed up for all district awards just like their parents can be passed up for a job promotion. Yes, it happens. I have yet to meet a kid playing high school baseball because they want a district award. Most are playing because they love the game, and they want to be with their friends. You and I both know that.

There are a lot of very, very good high school players in our District.. Some players are going to be on the list and some will be left off the list. Again, my issue isn't with the "who" but the "how".
Last edited by fenwaysouth
Graham,
You totally missed my point

a. high schools try to mimic the next level
b. there is controversy no matter what level

As far as compensation for coaches, I was talking about college coaches who get bonus $$$$$ for the rankings of their recruiting class.

Truly this conversation seems to mimic the same when it comes to different organizations ranking individual players.....it is always flawed!

You are right, prove it on the field, but I bet those guys with all of the awards get more initial looks than the other player. You surely have heard about the kid who got signed cause he was on the same team as the STUD! Some may call it flying under the radar.

Off to a game!
quote:
Originally posted by R.Graham:
it's politics at times - but not nearly as often as is claimed, mostly it's just other people's opinions. Which is my point. How much should we actually care about other people's opinions?


Just happened to me. Thought I was a lock for SOY (scorekeeper of the year)....didn't even get nominated. And to top it off, the guy who won it uses a pencil and paper of all things! Really? Over me and my iPad? Boy is my family po'd. We've retained legal counsel and are going to see if we can get the voting process changed. Not to mention all the scouts I've let down. Looks like that full ride D1 scorekeeping scholarship that was intimated early on may have slipped away. Now I really have to work this summer to make a scoring impression while attending all those scorekeeping showcases and tournaments. Wish me luck.
quote:
Originally posted by 2Slim:

Just happened to me. Thought I was a lock for SOY (scorekeeper of the year)....didn't even get nominated. And to top it off, the guy who won it uses a pencil and paper of all things! Really? Over me and my iPad? Boy is my family po'd. We've retained legal counsel and are going to see if we can get the voting process changed. Not to mention all the scouts I've let down. Looks like that full ride D1 scorekeeping scholarship that was intimated early on may have slipped away. Now I really have to work this summer to make a scoring impression while attending all those scorekeeping showcases and tournaments. Wish me luck.


Come on....word is you were struggling with wild pitch vs. passed ball. You have to be able to do more than score hits and errors.
quote:
Originally posted by Go Dawgs:
quote:
Originally posted by 2Slim:

Just happened to me. Thought I was a lock for SOY (scorekeeper of the year)....didn't even get nominated. And to top it off, the guy who won it uses a pencil and paper of all things! Really? Over me and my iPad? Boy is my family po'd. We've retained legal counsel and are going to see if we can get the voting process changed. Not to mention all the scouts I've let down. Looks like that full ride D1 scorekeeping scholarship that was intimated early on may have slipped away. Now I really have to work this summer to make a scoring impression while attending all those scorekeeping showcases and tournaments. Wish me luck.


Come on....word is you were struggling with wild pitch vs. passed ball. You have to be able to do more than score hits and errors.



You mean there is a difference?.......dang.
quote:
2Slim said.....Just happened to me. Thought I was a lock for SOY (scorekeeper of the year)....didn't even get nominated. And to top it off, the guy who won it uses a pencil and paper of all things! Really? Over me and my iPad? Boy is my family po'd. We've retained legal counsel and are going to see if we can get the voting process changed. Not to mention all the scouts I've let down. Looks like that full ride D1 scorekeeping scholarship that was intimated early on may have slipped away. Now I really have to work this summer to make a scoring impression while attending all those scorekeeping showcases and tournaments. Wish me luck.


LOL! Are you hearing any footsteps? There is a couple 8th grade math whizs coming to your high school next year. Rumor is they want to skip JV scorekeeper and move right into the Varsity role. They've been characterized as the "Bryce Harper's of scorekeeping". You may have to sharpen those skills with some summer scorekeeping camps. Best of luck! Wink
Last edited by fenwaysouth

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