Someone Score This Play For Me!

OP:
- Batter is out 3U as you indicated.
- Runner advances to 2nd on E6.
- If that runner scores, it's unearned.
- If there were two outs when that occurred, then any additional runs are also unearned.

It's NOT a fielder's choice, because:
"FIELDER'S CHOICE is the act of a fielder who handles a fair grounder and, instead of throwing to first base to put out the batter runner, throws to another base in an attempt to put out a preceding runner."

Hope that helps!

(and good luck against the arch rival this Friday!)

Oh, and one more thing ... 1st baseman gets an assist on the throw to 2nd.

Same type question...

Runner at 1B, ground ball to SS, tosses to 2B for out, 2B throws ball in dirt to 1B and 1B bobbles ball allowing runner to be safe.

How is this scored? If runner who is safe at 1B scores is it an ER?

I don't think I've ever seen this play scored E2. But should it be?

PGStaff,
There is an essential difference between your play and the OP. In your play, the misplay was a wild throw.
From OBR:

quote:

Rule 10.12(
......
(d) The official scorer shall not charge an error against:
.......
(3) any fielder who makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base such runner would have reached had the throw not been wild;

Rule 10.12(d) Comment: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball that, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, the official scorer shall charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.

Since the ball bounced, it is considered a wild throw, but because it would have completed a double play no error is charged. In the OP, the ball arrived in time, the tag was made and then the ball was dropped (muffed).

Thanks for the rules pertaining to this.

And of course I meant E4 not E2.

Is dropping a ball on a tag a muff (error)? I understand dropping a good throw being scored an error, but to me dropping the ball while making a tag is one of the harder plays to score. Though the play described above does sound like it would be an error.

I don't think that dropping the ball on a tag attempt is necessarily an error. For example, if the catcher drops the ball while attempting to tag out a runner who is hell-bent on scoring, I don't think it is an error. As far as I can see, none of the scoring rules address the point.

The OP describes a play in which I envision that the dropped ball should be classified as a misplay. The key isue to me is that the fielder waits for the runner after catching the throw. He should have time to ensure that the ball is held securely, so I would call it an error.

A wild throw is only a wild throw if the fielder fails to catch it or if it pulls him out of position to make the tag. Once the fielder catches the throw whether it bounces or not and is in a position to make the tag it cannot be ruled a wild throw. If the fielder catches the ball and muffs the tag, score it an error on the fielder. Catchers are not exempt from errors on the tag if they are controlling the ball at the time contact is made. These are usually "bang bang" type plays and can go either way.

Old pitcher, Score it 3U (unassisted) for the out at first. Give an error to the ss for the muffed tag (which would have been an out if he had held the throw) and the run will be UNearned if it subsequently scores. NOTE: Had the throw from firstbase been wild there would have been no error because it was on the end of a double play. The fact that the ss was in control of the ball and waiting for the runner changes the scenario and makes him liable to be charged an error.

PG, 3fingerglove is right on. While it appears to be a mistake there is no error because it is on the end of a double play. If the run scores it will be eligible to be charged to the pitcher as an earned run.
Fungo

The old saw that "you can't presume a double play" only applies when the relay throw is off target. If the play was right there and should've been made, you can and should still charge an error.

In my opinion, RPD got the original question exactly right.

In PG's example, as long as the batter/runner does not advance beyond first, there is no error on the relay throw. But if the relay throw were excellent and the 1B gets the ball in his glove and simply drops it, you do score it as an assist and an E on the 1B.

The tag play is a judgment call that basically relies on the "ordinary effort" standard. If someone is in the act of catching a ball just as a runner arrives and the runner knocks the ball loose, that's not an error (though you could have an error if the loose ball allows the runner to take yet another base). But if the throw is there, the catch is made, then the runner arrives, and THEN the guy drops it in the act of making a tag, that's an E.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
PGStaff,
There is an essential difference between your play and the OP. In your play, the misplay was a wild throw.
From OBR:

quote:

Rule 10.12(
......
(d) The official scorer shall not charge an error against:
.......
(3) any fielder who makes a wild throw in attempting to complete a double play or triple play, unless such wild throw enables any runner to advance beyond the base such runner would have reached had the throw not been wild;

Rule 10.12(d) Comment: When a fielder muffs a thrown ball that, if held, would have completed a double play or triple play, the official scorer shall charge an error to the fielder who drops the ball and credit an assist to the fielder who made the throw.

Since the ball bounced, it is considered a wild throw, but because it would have completed a double play no error is charged. In the OP, the ball arrived in time, the tag was made and then the ball was dropped (muffed).

On the play first mentioned, the throw from first was perfect. The SS waited on the runner, who slid into 2nd base, and then the ball fell out of his glove on the swipe. There was very little contact on the actual tag.