Skip to main content

31 replies

son got "THAT" coach

T tfox100+ posts
Son had a great year,but with him being in a 11-12 year old league and being 11,he faced some pretty tough pitching for the first time(curve balls and true changeups)He hit 5 homeruns but had 8 strikeouts but also drew 9 walks and had an on base % of .450 and a BA of 300 or so. 4 of the strikeouts were the result of not swinging at a CALLED strikes.I was in the press box and all were clearly outside BUT the umps call this a strike more often than not.Adjustment he had to make.


He made the allstar team and the coach is trying to "fix" his swing and won't let him even have his normal stance.He prefers slightly open,about 2 to 3 inches.Coach insists on square.Tells him NOT to get off his backside.Yells at him evrytime his back foot comes off the ground on a pitch he can drive.

The coach is a pure rotational guy which my son started with when he was 7.He advanced his swing to a much higher level than that and my son actually tried to explain this to him that he has already done all he is trying to get him to do but there are some things that just don't work for him.My son had maybe 2 popups all season but has already had 4 in 3 scrimmage games.


In the cage last night the coach told my son when he tried explaining what was going on that if he didn't do it the coaches way,that he needed to pack his bag and leave.

That is a heck of a spot to put an 11 year old in but he really considered leaving. Mad

I just told my son not to worry about it and go hit when the games start.Let the results speak for themselves but I just hope it isn't too late for his confidence.


WHY ,do coaches do this.He has him for 3 weeks and wants to change what has worked for him.

Heck,he even screamed at him in a scrimmage game BEFORE he even took a swing.He was taking a pitch out of the zone and didn't do it to suit him. Roll Eyes
Last edited {1}
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Y Yakyu10+ posts
I have been in similar situations from both sides as a coach and also as a parent. I'll give the coach the benefit of the doubt and assume that he means well and truly intends to help your son improve as much as he can during the limited time he has him on the All-Star team. If you disagree with his teaching, address it with him yourself (non-confrontationally, of course). Don't put the kid in the position of deciding which authority figure to ignore. I would think that when the coach learns that the kid is intentionally being taught a hitting style that differs from his own, he will be reasonable enough to not mess with it too much. The two of you may be able to have a productive discussion and even learn a thing or two from each other. Despite what some gurus will have you believe, there really is no one "true" hitting style that fits every hitter. If the coach is good, he will be able to adapt his teaching to suit different individuals. If not, write it off as a learning experience and it will be over in 3 weeks.
P powertoallfields1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by tfox:
Son had a great year,but with him being in a 11-12 year old league and being 11,he faced some pretty tough pitching for the first time(curve balls and true changeups)He hit 5 homeruns but had 8 strikeouts but also drew 9 walks and had an on base % of .450 and a BA of 300 or so. 4 of the strikeouts were the result of not swinging at a CALLED strikes.I was in the press box and all were clearly outside BUT the umps call this a strike more often than not.Adjustment he had to make.


He made the allstar team and the coach is trying to "fix" his swing and won't let him even have his normal stance.He prefers slightly open,about 2 to 3 inches.Coach insists on square.Tells him NOT to get off his backside.Yells at him evrytime his back foot comes off the ground on a pitch he can drive.

The coach is a pure rotational guy which my son started with when he was 7.He advanced his swing to a much higher level than that and my son actually tried to explain this to him that he has already done all he is trying to get him to do but there are some things that just don't work for him.My son had maybe 2 popups all season but has already had 4 in 3 scrimmage games.


In the cage last night the coach told my son when he tried explaining what was going on that if he didn't do it the coaches way,that he needed to pack his bag and leave.

That is a heck of a spot to put an 11 year old in but he really considered leaving. Mad

I just told my son not to worry about it and go hit when the games start.Let the results speak for themselves but I just hope it isn't too late for his confidence.


WHY ,do coaches do this.He has him for 3 weeks and wants to change what has worked for him.

Heck,he even screamed at him in a scrimmage game BEFORE he even took a swing.He was taking a pitch out of the zone and didn't do it to suit him. Roll Eyes



Got any recent clips of him swinging?
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Yakyu:
I have been in similar situations from both sides as a coach and also as a parent. I'll give the coach the benefit of the doubt and assume that he means well and truly intends to help your son improve as much as he can during the limited time he has him on the All-Star team. If you disagree with his teaching, address it with him yourself (non-confrontationally, of course). Don't put the kid in the position of deciding which authority figure to ignore. I would think that when the coach learns that the kid is intentionally being taught a hitting style that differs from his own, he will be reasonable enough to not mess with it too much. The two of you may be able to have a productive discussion and even learn a thing or two from each other. Despite what some gurus will have you believe, there really is no one "true" hitting style that fits every hitter. If the coach is good, he will be able to adapt his teaching to suit different individuals. If not, write it off as a learning experience and it will be over in 3 weeks.



This guy is completely unapproachable.I try not to talk to him anymore than neccessary.


power,I have 1 clip but it is from the press box and he hit a double but can't tell too much.


BUT,he played the first game tonight.He did his own thing in the box.Went 2 for 4 against a really good pitcher with a nasty curve(no strikeouts).Should have been 3 for 4 but left fielder made a diving catch on a line drive.OH,and 1 of his 2 hits was over the fence.
Last edited by tfox
T tfox100+ posts
Here you go power,you can see he is slightly open.This was a double on a low pitch that he went down and got in 1 of the first games of the regular season.

I actually think he baited the coach into letting him open up by exagerating it,then when he fussed at him,he brought it back to where he likes it.

The coaches are telling him now his swing is too long.They apparently don't understand short to the zone but long through it.


Last edited by tfox
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Personally, I think you should spend a few weeks letting random people go over his swing on the internet based on this clip and then completely start over. Smile

A few years back bbscout and FlippJ helped me post a clip of my son pitching on N*y*m*a*n's website. Everyone had an opinion. He was doing this wrong. He was doing that wrong. He should change this, he should change that. Then the head guy came on and said (I'm paraphrasing) "What are you guys talking about? Relative to his age the mechanics are similar to Roy Oswalt. There's some tweaks that could be made but the basics are fine."

Seriously, Sultan is spot on.
Last edited by CADad
O OA5II1,000+ posts
Please take what I am about to say with all the respect that it is intended:

What if your son just doesn't have a good swing? My son plays 14u baseball and has played tournament ball since 9u. This fall, we completely changed his swing. Why? Because his swing wasn't as good as it could have been and it needed to be broken down completely.

Sometimes, the coach does know what he is talking about.

Good luck in All-Stars!!! Make sure he is having a blast!!
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
I know there were times when I was accused of being "THAT" coach. But here's where I come down on this.

If a kid is in Little League and generally tearing the cover off the ball, I don't mess with him. Little League is Little League. Enjoy it while you can.

What bugs me is when a kid is NOT HITTING WELL AT ALL, then you try to help him, and all you get is resistance. Then you get the distinct impression -- and maybe some e-mails that confirm your suspicions -- that when he goes home at night, the dad who is sure he knows more than the coach is undermining your efforts every step of the way.

I've heard it all. He works with thus and so, the esteemed local half hour lesson guy. (Whom I know and respect, but honestly, the kid is not doing what I know that coach regularly teaches.)

As a coach, you have two options. You can just let the kid struggle and maybe have it cost the entire team; maybe you can sit the kid a lot and take a lot of abuse from his parents on that score, too. Or, you can try to persevere through the resistance and try to teach something in spite of all the obstacles thrown in your path.

Which path would you prefer?

I'm stubborn enough to have stuck by option 2 despite taking a lot of flack for it. But make no mistake, you can find a lot of people who will still give you an earful about how I was "THAT" coach.

Just as you could find 10 guys for every one of those guys, who would ask "how can we get our son on your team?"

Same coach, two different perspectives. I'm not accusing the OP of anything, but sometimes it all depends on whose side of the story you're getting, doesn't it?

P.S.

If a kid truly has natural talent, if he wants to play at a level above rec ball, I think a coach owes it to that kid to help him develop a higher level approach even if he is tearing it up in rec league. Lots of kids hit .500 in Little League and never even make their high school roster. I'm glad the OP's son is having a ball right now, but to be honest, there are things in that video clip that won't stand the test of time.

But they're OK for now. He's only 11, right?
Last edited by Midlo Dad
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I know there were times when I was accused of being "THAT" coach. But here's where I come down on this.

If a kid is in Little League and generally tearing the cover off the ball, I don't mess with him. Little League is Little League. Enjoy it while you can.

What bugs me is when a kid is NOT HITTING WELL AT ALL, then you try to help him, and all you get is resistance. Then you get the distinct impression -- and maybe some e-mails that confirm your suspicions -- that when he goes home at night, the dad who is sure he knows more than the coach is undermining your efforts every step of the way.

I've heard it all. He works with thus and so, the esteemed local half hour lesson guy. (Whom I know and respect, but honestly, the kid is not doing what I know that coach regularly teaches.)

As a coach, you have two options. You can just let the kid struggle and maybe have it cost the entire team; maybe you can sit the kid a lot and take a lot of abuse from his parents on that score, too. Or, you can try to persevere through the resistance and try to teach something in spite of all the obstacles thrown in your path.

Which path would you prefer?

I'm stubborn enough to have stuck by option 2 despite taking a lot of flack for it. But make no mistake, you can find a lot of people who will still give you an earful about how I was "THAT" coach.

Just as you could find 10 guys for every one of those guys, who would ask "how can we get our son on your team?"

Same coach, two different perspectives. I'm not accusing the OP of anything, but sometimes it all depends on whose side of the story you're getting, doesn't it?

P.S.

If a kid truly has natural talent, if he wants to play at a level above rec ball, I think a coach owes it to that kid to help him develop a higher level approach even if he is tearing it up in rec league. Lots of kids hit .500 in Little League and never even make their high school roster. I'm glad the OP's son is having a ball right now, but to be honest, there are things in that video clip that won't stand the test of time.

But they're OK for now. He's only 11, right?



The thing is,he is not teaching a higher level approach,he is teaching the same approach he has already been doing.He is just stuck on non issues.PLUS,3 weeks is not enough time to change a swing.At this point in the season,1 should let them do what got them there and instill strong fundamentals,not a my way or the highway approach.

My son does have a few issues that need addressed and as long as he stays on those issues,like keeping hands back during his stride and not letting himself drift out over his front side,that is fine but a 2" open stance is a non issue.And telling him not to get to his toes on his backside is going backwards.
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Cool your jets. I know it's hard, but try to enjoy All Stars. Your son's swing will not be ruined in 3 weeks.


His swing may not but the way he feels about baseball and being coached can sure be affected.

Telling an 11 year old my way or the highway should NEVER be an option.THAT is what I am truly upset about.
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
Personally, I think you should spend a few weeks letting random people go over his swing on the internet based on this clip and then completely start over. Smile

A few years back bbscout and FlippJ helped me post a clip of my son pitching on N*y*m*a*n's website. Everyone had an opinion. He was doing this wrong. He was doing that wrong. He should change this, he should change that. Then the head guy came on and said (I'm paraphrasing) "What are you guys talking about? Relative to his age the mechanics are similar to Roy Oswalt. There's some tweaks that could be made but the basics are fine."

Seriously, Sultan is spot on.


That is why I never posted this clip before now.A low inside pitch has about a thousand recommended set of mechanics to hit "properly".

I have a couple issues about how he got there in this clip but the important thing is he got there.
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by danocaster:
"......Tells him NOT to get off his backside.Yells at him evrytime his back foot comes off the ground on a pitch he can drive.

The coach is a pure rotational guy which my son started with when he was 7......"


I don't get it. I thought part of the rotational swing was to NOT "squish the bug".


Most of the rotational stuff I have seen start out with a lot of spinning and very little weight transfer.As the mechanics progress,the foot will start coming off the ground imo.I believe this coach doesn't believe this as part of the progression or not aware of it.

I appreciate the coaches doing what they do,I really do.(but a little communication can go a long way)We need them as well as umpires and we know they all suck. Big Grin just kidding umps
Last edited by tfox
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
Tell the coach to leave him alone....Tell him to mess with the kids who don't care what he does...


NO,I am not THAT parent. Big Grin

I think he has either accepted him for what he does because it works or my son just wore him down. Heck,my son has hit a homerun in 3 of his last 4 games Roll Eyes

He hit today and it was all about keeping the hands back and not getting out over the front foot.These are areas he needs to work on.I have been telling him lately when he notices offspeed,push his hands back and sit on it.It seems to be helping and now I have someone else that can help him with it.


I really do appreciate him coaching.He is giving up watching his own son(15) to help our 11's hopefully win another state title and possibly a regional title.

I was just a little upset when I made this post about his my way or the highway attitude and telling an 11 year old(my son) that if he didn't like it to pack his bags.
Last edited by tfox
T tfox100+ posts
Well,they won state and my son just did his thing and ended up with 2 homeruns,several walks and a couple singles.NO strikeouts in 3 games.We scored 31 runs and gave up 5.

Coach started him in the 7 hole,then 4 hole and finally tonight in the championship game,the 3 hole.

He finally started pushing his hands back on offspeed and as the coach yelled at him NOT to do it,he hit a curveball opposite field over the fence. Big Grin


Like I said,I appreciate what the coach is doing and much of his philosophy I agree with.He really is a great coach but sometimes there is another way that works better,even if it is just for that 1 person.
Last edited by tfox
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
Blue,

You may be right, but facing Little League pitching, a lot of swings that won't succeed at a high level can still succeed. Watch what goes on at Williamsport when they get to TV. You'll see a lot of unusual swings putting the ball over the fence.

For one thing, it ain't all that far!

So, I don't see any reason to accuse him of making things up.
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BlueDog:
Tfox, I have to say, I wonder if you tell the truth....I don't believe you do...

Your kid's body movement is not high level...


So what is it I am supposed to be untruthful about.The fact he has hit 4 homeruns in the last 6 games or he has finally started making adjustments with his hands and hitting offspeed.

The clip is from the second game of the season and much has improved since then, plus,it was not in his sweetspot and he had to make adjustments just to get the bat on the ball.Like I stated,that was a double,not a homerun.Just a hard line drive to center.

But of course,I shouldn't expect anything less from you. Roll Eyes
Last edited by tfox
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Blue,

You may be right, but facing Little League pitching, a lot of swings that won't succeed at a high level can still succeed. Watch what goes on at Williamsport when they get to TV. You'll see a lot of unusual swings putting the ball over the fence.

For one thing, it ain't all that far!

So, I don't see any reason to accuse him of making things up.



I agree with you,these bats and short fences do make for a homerun derby at times.Heck our 11 years olds hit 5 homeruns in 3 games on a 200' fence.Another year,same bats and I believe it is still 200'.Might be 225',not quite sure.


What I noticed this weekend is no one was throwing a change.All fast balls and curveballs.Some of the curves were sharp but most were not.Basically,if a kid has patience,he will get a pitch to hit or get walked.That is what my son is doing.The curve he hit was on a 3-2 count and he had to protect.It was not a hard breaking curve but it was offspeed and breaking outside.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
For what its worth I happen to really like the way your son swings the bat. I can see a ton of potential in that young man from that clip I watched. Several things stick out for me. He attacks the baseball. He looks to hit. He has very good bat speed. He has a great swing path especially for a young player. I think he is going to be a tremendous hitter when its all said and done.

Of course he will continue to develop his swing and approach. Every hitter does , at least the ones that continue to play. I can tell you he is way ahead of the vast majority of kids his age from what I see. Keep working with him and keep us posted. I love to see a kid who you can tell loves to be in the batters box.
SA S. Abrams100+ posts
Coach May nailed it. The kid swings with "intent" to put a hurt on the ball. He ain't in there to just get on base...he wants to hit.

High level swing/body movement....hah, we adults/coaches can't even come to a mutual agreement on this website about that. Being that the high level swing theorists change the criteria/beliefs every so often I wouldn't worry about it at your son's age.
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:
For what its worth I happen to really like the way your son swings the bat. I can see a ton of potential in that young man from that clip I watched. Several things stick out for me. He attacks the baseball. He looks to hit. He has very good bat speed. He has a great swing path especially for a young player. I think he is going to be a tremendous hitter when its all said and done.

Of course he will continue to develop his swing and approach. Every hitter does , at least the ones that continue to play. I can tell you he is way ahead of the vast majority of kids his age from what I see. Keep working with him and keep us posted. I love to see a kid who you can tell loves to be in the batters box.


What you see is correct,he does attack the ball on every swing,not just the ones down the middle(most homeruns this year were with 2 strikes).I don't like a few things about the clip as well,but like you,there are things I really like.Especially when I look at it slowed down as much as I can get it.

Blue,I agree the pitching isn't great in this clip but it is what it is.He has consistently hit older kids.This pitcher happened to be a girl that is very good and knows my son quite well.He can only hit what is in front of him.

He did hit much better pitching this weekend.The 2-4 night was a really good pitcher,probably the best I have seen at this age.

AND I assure you,everything I have stated is the truth.Unless my son was mistaken when he told me the last homerun was a curve.I have to take his word for it because I was watching him and trying to see his hands after I heard the coach yell at him.


Again,the clip was not to evaluate his swing.It definately was not one of his better swings.It was to show how he positioned his feet.
Last edited by tfox
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
If the coach is still barking at him with the hot streak he's on, it's time someone told the coach to shut the heck up!

In any short tournament, you want to win, to advance, to keep playing. Sounds like your son is helping that happen.

All the micromanaging can wait until another day.

Sure, he's seeing weak pitching. It's hard to find tough pitching to face consistently when you're 11. Facing tougher pitching will happen with increasing frequency as the years progress. I wouldn't worry about it.

And sure, he may not swing like Manny or Pujols. But neither did they when they were 11. Just as they did, your son can take it step by step over the coming years.

In the meantime, make lots of home movies and enjoy the here and now, here and now!
trojan-skippertrojan-skipper1,000+ posts
Here's my 3 cents:
1. The coach is like a rat on crack; he's going 99 mph... a lot of what he says might be right and his high speed drive might be good for the team overall; his technique comments are probably a lot of rubbish, try not to let it distract you.

2. You can't even see the pitcher in the clip.

3. If it's the same kid that's in the soft toss clips; and that kid's 11 I'd say he is a stud. Great swing, way more bat speed than the average 11, way more; I saw a lot of 11-12 ball this summer; he's upper crust stuff..... have fun.
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
If the coach is still barking at him with the hot streak he's on, it's time someone told the coach to shut the heck up!

In any short tournament, you want to win, to advance, to keep playing. Sounds like your son is helping that happen.

All the micromanaging can wait until another day.

Sure, he's seeing weak pitching. It's hard to find tough pitching to face consistently when you're 11. Facing tougher pitching will happen with increasing frequency as the years progress. I wouldn't worry about it.

And sure, he may not swing like Manny or Pujols. But neither did they when they were 11. Just as they did, your son can take it step by step over the coming years.

In the meantime, make lots of home movies and enjoy the here and now, here and now!


Agreed,except for 1 thing.I am letting the coach do his thing cause he just isn't the kind of coach you want to confront.Nothing good can come from it for the team or my son.Like I said,he has much to teach my son but he is just one of those guys that has to micromanage as you put it.

I try to hang around and listen to what he is saying and MOST of the time,I will agree and tell my son he is right on the money but other times,I just tell him not to worry about it.Only when it pertains to hitting.


Tonight he got on him for not hitting a certain pitch.My son has ONE pitch he looks for when he steps in the box with no strikes.If he doesn't get it,the bat stays on his shoulder.The pitch was about 4" high of that spot.(he has drawn many walks this season)
Last edited by tfox
T tfox100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Here's my 3 cents:
1. The coach is like a rat on crack; he's going 99 mph... a lot of what he says might be right and his high speed drive might be good for the team overall; his technique comments are probably a lot of rubbish, try not to let it distract you.

2. You can't even see the pitcher in the clip.

3. If it's the same kid that's in the soft toss clips; and that kid's 11 I'd say he is a stud. Great swing, way more bat speed than the average 11, way more; I saw a lot of 11-12 ball this summer; he's upper crust stuff..... have fun.



#1 Spot on,if you are speaking of the side toss hand eye drills we were doing,yes,the same kid.He wasn't even getting into his game stance in that clip.Just a hand eye drill we do sometimes to pick out a ball and hit it.
Last edited by tfox

Add Reply

Post
Baseball Sale Canada

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×