My son is 17. Good hitter with power but needs to shorten his swing. He is working with someone but I am looking for some expert suggestions here. Thanks
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Can you post a clip?
He and you, aren't gonna learn it from anything you read. This has been verbally beat to death. Get a good Hitting Coach that's works with College and Pro hitters, teaches rotational mechanics, and begin what could be a long process!
power, I'll try. I don't have much and I don't have a clue how to post a clip.
Prime9, I hear you, and he is working with what you suggest. I just wanted to get a few suggestions.
Prime9, I hear you, and he is working with what you suggest. I just wanted to get a few suggestions.
Where is his swing getting long?
The Net Drill should help alot...Make sure your hands leat the bat...take the knob of the bat to the ball...
quote:Originally posted by JCBaseball365:
The Net Drill should help alot...Make sure your hands leat the bat...take the knob of the bat to the ball...
Doing this drill makes the swing speed occur out in front of the plate. If you take the knob to the ball, you are using your arms to take your hands to the ball... and further away from your power. This won't make the swing shorter - but it will make the player need to start sooner (and likely have trouble with off speed pitches and trouble driving the ball to the opposite field.) Taking the knob to the ball doesn't shorten the swing - it creates a more direct bat drag.
Does this drill feel better with the weight back or when the weight shifts to the front side when you start the knob to the ball. (If your are on the front side, where is your power coming from?)
Again, where is the swing getting long? Any video yet?
quote:Originally posted by JCBaseball365:
The Net Drill should help alot...Make sure your hands leat the bat...take the knob of the bat to the ball...
Can you hear me screaming from here?
The Up Toss is also incredible at shortening your swing...The key is not psycho-analyzing your mechanics so you know what percentage of your weight you are shifting on your back foot or what angle your bat is at...It is all about drills that teach built-in mechanics. The net drill keeps you from "casting" or having a long swing...keeping it short and compact. The Up Toss forces your hands to be lightning quick and keeps you from having a long, lengthy swing...There are more drills as well. (2 Ball Tee, Superman, Stride Then Hit etc. etc. etc.) Tony Gwynn would preach taking the knob of the bat to the ball...This is an inside out swing...the pros do this...there are also "coach cues" that some little league and high school coaches use such as arms extend on contact, swing down on the ball, and squash the bug, that are just straight detrimental to hitting. Some hitting coaches and very teachable hitters (happens in the MLB) can change their swing mechanics after watching high speed film but can you imagine trying to tell a kid to keep his weight 60/40? Hitting is hard enough. Why try to overcomplicate things by confusing the hitter...
BobbyTewks, You are right that the hitter should not swing out in front of them, but performing the drill I mentioned CORRECTLY will not enforce bat mechanics. You are 100% correct that any drills done incorrectly will hurt your mechanics.
What I am saying is that it is so much easier to use specific drills that have built-in mechanics in them than to give hitters cues that might even confuse them more...I have always looked for the holy grail of hitting but it was always mechanics I was looking for...like "Stop stepping in the bucket" I now know that the stride then hit drill will eliminate this, but back then what do I do? A good coach can see an athlete on film, notice his mechanical flaw, and then pick a few specific drills that will eliminate this flaw.
As far as taking the knob of the bat to the ball, you do not want to have your hands way out in front of the ball. I guess I should have said have the knob face the ball because that is correct. You want it no farther than past your chest.
BobbyTewks, You are right that the hitter should not swing out in front of them, but performing the drill I mentioned CORRECTLY will not enforce bat mechanics. You are 100% correct that any drills done incorrectly will hurt your mechanics.
What I am saying is that it is so much easier to use specific drills that have built-in mechanics in them than to give hitters cues that might even confuse them more...I have always looked for the holy grail of hitting but it was always mechanics I was looking for...like "Stop stepping in the bucket" I now know that the stride then hit drill will eliminate this, but back then what do I do? A good coach can see an athlete on film, notice his mechanical flaw, and then pick a few specific drills that will eliminate this flaw.
As far as taking the knob of the bat to the ball, you do not want to have your hands way out in front of the ball. I guess I should have said have the knob face the ball because that is correct. You want it no farther than past your chest.
JC,
Could you tell me what those drills are or point me in the direction of finding the info?
Could you tell me what those drills are or point me in the direction of finding the info?
quote:Originally posted by JCBaseball365:
The Up Toss is also incredible at shortening your swing...The key is not psycho-analyzing your mechanics so you know what percentage of your weight you are shifting on your back foot or what angle your bat is at...It is all about drills that teach built-in mechanics. The net drill keeps you from "casting" or having a long swing...keeping it short and compact. The Up Toss forces your hands to be lightning quick and keeps you from having a long, lengthy swing...There are more drills as well. (2 Ball Tee, Superman, Stride Then Hit etc. etc. etc.) Tony Gwynn would preach taking the knob of the bat to the ball...This is an inside out swing...the pros do this...there are also "coach cues" that some little league and high school coaches use such as arms extend on contact, swing down on the ball, and squash the bug, that are just straight detrimental to hitting. Some hitting coaches and very teachable hitters (happens in the MLB) can change their swing mechanics after watching high speed film but can you imagine trying to tell a kid to keep his weight 60/40? Hitting is hard enough. Why try to overcomplicate things by confusing the hitter...
BobbyTewks, You are right that the hitter should not swing out in front of them, but performing the drill I mentioned CORRECTLY will not enforce bat mechanics. You are 100% correct that any drills done incorrectly will hurt your mechanics.
What I am saying is that it is so much easier to use specific drills that have built-in mechanics in them than to give hitters cues that might even confuse them more...I have always looked for the holy grail of hitting but it was always mechanics I was looking for...like "Stop stepping in the bucket" I now know that the stride then hit drill will eliminate this, but back then what do I do? A good coach can see an athlete on film, notice his mechanical flaw, and then pick a few specific drills that will eliminate this flaw.
As far as taking the knob of the bat to the ball, you do not want to have your hands way out in front of the ball. I guess I should have said have the knob face the ball because that is correct. You want it no farther than past your chest.
These drills are just a trial and error process. Taking the knob to the ball doesn't happen, at least not in a high level swing. I'm sorry. I really am because it is what I was taught forever.
You see the following picture and think the knob is going to the ball, but it isn't. "Take the knob to the ball" is a mental cue he gave himself to achieve his swing. Doesn't necessarily make it good for teaching and I see it doing much more harm than good because it is not understood. The hands are "back", hips have driven a lot, and the barrel is blurry. Can you tell which direction the barrel is moving to cause blur? Somebody else say it so it isn't just me being the crazy one...
This is beatiful. This is bat speed to contact. This is taking the barrel to the ball with the hands. This is not what is taught by "taking the knob to the ball" because when people try to take the knob to the ball, they extend their arms.
Tewks, I like what you have to say. But, I have learned from others that sound like they know, that the "blur" in an image is only a photographic artifact, and is not really related to bat speed. So "blur" vs. "non-blur" is not relevant.
Gwynn talking about swinging the knob of the bat... Interesting wording. He knows he is teaching the kids something different, something new.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhVSBMjLwsA
Definitely different than what he is teaching the little kids... Why two sets of mechanics??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...7aaQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhVSBMjLwsA
Definitely different than what he is teaching the little kids... Why two sets of mechanics??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...7aaQ&feature=related
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Tewks, I like what you have to say. But, I have learned from others that sound like they know, that the "blur" in an image is only a photographic artifact, and is not really related to bat speed. So "blur" vs. "non-blur" is not relevant.
I didn't take the picture. Just copied the URL. The shutter speed of the camera effects this. Not my problem. Guess Canon needs to step up their game!
How about a fuzzy barrel?
(I can see Manny's dreads, but his barrel is blurry.)
Tewks, something about "focal plane shutter", "detector arrays", "shutter speeds", "deformation". I'm not sure. I think I blanked out during the discussion.
But, I learned to stop comparing one "blur" to the next.
But, I learned to stop comparing one "blur" to the next.
If they can explain why Manny's dreads are captured perfectly but the barrel isn't, I'll stop. Pretty much everything is clear except for the barrel... isn't the barrel moving the fastest??? (Notice it is moving fast TO the ball, pretty deep as well.)
danocaster, baseballtrainingsecrets.com
Very simple answer to at least one of the photo questions...in looking at the photo of Manny, the shutter speed used to take the photograph was sufficiently fast to stop ALMOST all of the action...The ball, the barrel of the bat and at least his front hand are moving too quickly to be stopped with that shutter speed, thus they are "blurry"...A faster shutter speed MAY have stopped that motion as well...Hard to say since I have no idea what shutter speed was used...
quote:Originally posted by TurnTwoNet:
Very simple answer to at least one of the photo questions...in looking at the photo of Manny, the shutter speed used to take the photograph was sufficiently fast to stop ALMOST all of the action...The ball, the barrel of the bat and at least his front hand are moving too quickly to be stopped with that shutter speed, thus they are "blurry"...A faster shutter speed MAY have stopped that motion as well...Hard to say since I have no idea what shutter speed was used...
So with Manny, the bat, the ball, and maybe his front hand (?) are moving too fast for the camera. Is the blur caused by fast motion then with Gwynn. And if so, what direction is the barrel moving in?
The blur of Gwynn's bat is definitely related to the shutter speed...hard to tell on the direction with that particular shot though...It would probably be easier if I saw the on-bat markings without the movement to determine it's direction...
I downloaded the photo and enlarged it and my best guess would be that it is moving from his helmet towards his back foot at the time of the photo...If you enlarge it, you'll see some linear direction in the blurred markings and that's what I'm basing it on.
Understand that shutter speeds are VERY fast. Most photographers I know wouldn't use anything slower than 1/500 of a second for sports unless lighting and equipment forced them to.
I'm a photographer - serious amateur at least, but there are pro sports organizations who have used my photos in the past (and hopefully they will again!) I'll have to play around and figure out how to load photos here so I can put in some I'm familiar with which might help...besides, I'm sure I'll want to post some shots from the upcoming HS season!
Hope that helps!
I downloaded the photo and enlarged it and my best guess would be that it is moving from his helmet towards his back foot at the time of the photo...If you enlarge it, you'll see some linear direction in the blurred markings and that's what I'm basing it on.
Understand that shutter speeds are VERY fast. Most photographers I know wouldn't use anything slower than 1/500 of a second for sports unless lighting and equipment forced them to.
I'm a photographer - serious amateur at least, but there are pro sports organizations who have used my photos in the past (and hopefully they will again!) I'll have to play around and figure out how to load photos here so I can put in some I'm familiar with which might help...besides, I'm sure I'll want to post some shots from the upcoming HS season!
Hope that helps!
I found this:
"It's called a rolling shutter The shutter doesn’t capture the whole image all at once. Instead, it scans from top to bottom and then starts back up at the top. That scan down the frame gives fast-moving objects time to move a bit between scan lines."
and..
"To counter the rolling/scrolling waves/lines caused by HMI or fluos, you can pretty much get rid of them by sync'ing the shutter speed to the line frequency. That means 1/60 for 60i/60p, and you can use 1/40 for 24p or 30p. You can't use 180 degrees or you'll get fluttering lines and scrolling orange bands in the footage. This is the same on every CMOS camcorder"
finally
"All of them [CMOS] have this issue at long focal lengths."
So, camcorders with CMOS sensors leave blurs (unless they have expensive "global sensors") and CCD sensors don't.
So, to summarize, any "blur" you see or don't see in a hitter's swing means nothing as far as the relative speed of that item (like a bat head). Two cameras could snap the same swing and show blurs in different spots, or no blur at all.
"It's called a rolling shutter The shutter doesn’t capture the whole image all at once. Instead, it scans from top to bottom and then starts back up at the top. That scan down the frame gives fast-moving objects time to move a bit between scan lines."
and..
"To counter the rolling/scrolling waves/lines caused by HMI or fluos, you can pretty much get rid of them by sync'ing the shutter speed to the line frequency. That means 1/60 for 60i/60p, and you can use 1/40 for 24p or 30p. You can't use 180 degrees or you'll get fluttering lines and scrolling orange bands in the footage. This is the same on every CMOS camcorder"
finally
"All of them [CMOS] have this issue at long focal lengths."
So, camcorders with CMOS sensors leave blurs (unless they have expensive "global sensors") and CCD sensors don't.
So, to summarize, any "blur" you see or don't see in a hitter's swing means nothing as far as the relative speed of that item (like a bat head). Two cameras could snap the same swing and show blurs in different spots, or no blur at all.
Sultan - essentially correct - the shutter speed of a still camera is the time the film or sensor is exposed to the image which begins with the shutter opening from top to bottom and ends with it closing from top to bottom. At faster speeds, your "window" would effectively scroll from one "side" to the other where only a portion of the image is being recorded at any given time. At slower speeds, the shutter will follow the same pattern, but there will be a brief period where the entire image is being exposed. Typically these slower speeds are used for flash photography and the flash is triggered to correspond to the moment when the full image is available, thus allowing even lighting across the image. BTW, I have an older camera in which the shutter actually moves from side to side instead of top to bottom, but the same theory is there...
