Son that is more projectible for the pros than college?

Welcome. Sounds like he could develop into a decent mid major D1 player with his frame. He is now likely a D2/D3 – JUCO player. Couple of problems. 1. No Varsity experience. 2. He has to get his velo up if he wants to play D1. 3. Poor curveball is troublesome indicating lack of energy in delivery. Scouts are looking at next level tools and this is velo and sharp breaking balls. It happens that guys develop late and get signed in the late signing period and so if he works hard and gets in front of the right folks he can find a home. He has the right frame so he just need to develop it. A good JUCO sounds like the right place for him based on what you posted. If you target a good D2-D3 who can let him develop this might work also.

As far as more projectable as a pro, I think he was just being nice. No pro would draft your son right now, it is just not going to happen he would be eaten alive. He has a baseball frame to build on and with some hard work it could happen. I have only heard of one player with more opportunity as a pro than a college player and this is a guy Coach Stotz at Stanford has mentioned was the BEST ATHLETE HE HAS EVER SEEN in his program, (were talking a lot of very very good players here) his only problem was he struck out a lot. He told some pro scouts that he would need a year or two in the low minors and they would have to accept him learning how to not strike out. He could not afford to put him in the Stanford line up as they needed to win.

Good luck!

I too welcome you to the HSBBW.

I think BOF pretty much laid it out, your son does sound like he could become a player at the D1 level, but he needs to grow and mature first.
Could be possible (without knowing him) that your son "projects" at a pro level, due to height and present ability and that he is physically immature, which means added velocity later on. But you don't want that process to begin now, trust me, he needs to go to school and mature both physically and mentally.
I am not sure what you have done to help your son to find a program to play at, if this is what he wants to do. You have to be proactive, you can't wait for anyone to come knocking on your door, especailly teh large D1 programs in FL. And he needs to take a role in this as well, not leave the work all up to mom and dad. He now should be seriously working on conditioning, a good long toss program and perhaps some qualified instruction on mechanics, his 2 seam, 4 seam FB, CB and CU (forget the slider, that should come after he develops the other 3, he doesn't need that now). This is a process like everything else, one step at a time. And yes, he needs to be playing varsity ball.

I am suggesting that you look into the showcases that Perfect Game does during the winter in FL, for evaluation and seriously start looking into a JUCO program, there are so many good ones in FL or a good D2 program outside of FL. You have not indicated where he would like to attend school (inside or outside of FL). Again, don't wait for the largr FL D1 programs to come knocking at the door, it's not going to happen.

Don't take too seriously what one former scout told you. If he really thought your son had true potential to play pro ball (before or after he went to college) he would have offered more helpful advice. And it's important to remember that just because a player is projectible, doesn't mean he will play at the pro level, it takes a LOT more than just becoming physically mature.

Good luck.

The pros can project more because the payoff is further downstream for them. A D1 coach doesn't have the luxury of carrying players who aren't likely to contribute for a couple years on the roster these days. Those kids get sent to a JC pretty quickly.

Having said that the velocity numbers don't say pro yet and he'll have to improve a lot more to get any serious pro interest. If he does improve that much in the next year or so he'll get serious D1 interest.

Unles I missed it I didnt see what your son was doing for training to get stronger.I think this is the key for many players.A good workout /nutrition program can do a ton for a player like this.

I agree with most of what has already been said. However, I did play with a kid in high school who was once approached by a Phillies scout purely because of his build (he was tall and built like an ox). Yet, if you asked all of us on the team, he wasn't close to our best player and had no future in college baseball. All of that to say that I've heard of weird things like that.

As far as college goes, I'd like to share a couple things from my experiences as a player. First, don't stress about it. It sounds like your son has a lot of potential but it hasn't been realized yet. This is very similar to my situation in HS. Tell him to keep working hard and smart. If no one really bites on him, think about finding a good JUCO school to go to. That way he has more time to develop. Hopefully he'll click, gain that extra velo and command, and be looking at some great college/pro options. Regardless, the bottom line is that a kid who is 17 and has potential, still has a lot of time to develop. Keep him focused on improving and other things will fall into place.



BaseballReviewUSA.com

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I am at a loss for understanding why he has not had much interest from colleges yet. I have not had him play the typical wood bat tounaments last year, nor has he played travel ball(local) where any colleges would see him. I did have him play two showcases this summer(Top 96 and Showball), and he did very well.

Colleges haven't shown any interest because he has had no useful exposure. No tournament exposure, apparently (looks like you edited your post, but earlier it implied this is his first year on varsity) no high school exposure, and an average 84mph fastball is not very special in a showcase setting. Also, 190 lbs is typical for a 17 year old 6' 4" boy. Sure, we can reasonably expect that he'll get bigger and stronger, but so will a lot of other boys, some of whom throw quite a bit harder now.

He may have mound presence and is mentally tough, but who has seen it? Put another way, what pressure packed situations has he done well in--and been seen doing it?

Getting recruited to college has some aspects of a campaign, especially for players who have college potential, but aren't studs. His campaign is behind the typical schedule.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
Welcome. Sounds like he could develop into a decent mid major D1 player with his frame. He is now likely a D2/D3 – JUCO player. Couple of problems. 1. No Varsity experience. 2. He has to get his velo up if he wants to play D1. 3. Poor curveball is troublesome indicating lack of energy in delivery.

Thanks for the welcome and detailed reply. I must have worded it wrong, but he does have one year of Varsity experience, last year.
The HS coach actually talked to me about him playing up in his sophomore year, but I felt there were too many arms already on the bench. That year there were 5 seniors, and 4 juniors, so I felt he would get more innings playing JV. I was right because about half those guys only got 10 innings or so on the varsity.
As to the velo, he is probably a year away from 90 because until this year he had only touched 84. With hard work he touched 88, and hovers in the 84 range, but I think 90 is a bit aways yet. I agree with you on the curve, and that is why I am nudging him toward a slider. It has much better rotation when it works than his curve.

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He has the right frame so he just need to develop it. A good JUCO sounds like the right place for him based on what you posted. If you target a good D2-D3 who can let him develop this might work also.

I do not think the family would go for JUCO. His grandfather wants him in a Catholic/Jesuit college, and the wife is dead set against JUCO. Heck a top JUCO scout down here has been sniffing around my son for years now. I think your suggesting them from a purely baseball perspective, correct?

Some people here might be able to educate me on transfer rules and years of eligibility. My limited understanding of the NCAA is that you get 5 years to play 4, and the clock starts ticking from the time he graduates HS. If I am mistaken on that let me know.
I have also heard that if you transfer from a D2 to a D1 or visa versa, you lose a year of eligibility because you must sit out a year?
Again assuming that is all true I'd like to find the right program for him the first time if possible.
Funny enough, a D1 pitching coach who said he might fit into their program, said my son would definately redshirt the first year to develop his body. However when I spoke to a NCAA person over the phone trying to find out how being RS would affect him, she said the NCAA does not care about RS, and that the 4 to play 5 rule still applied.
Forgive me for going a little off topic, but the whole process is a little daunting to me.

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As far as more projectable as a pro, I think he was just being nice. No pro would draft your son right now, it is just not going to happen he would be eaten alive. He has a baseball frame to build on and with some hard work it could happen. I have only heard of one player with more opportunity as a pro than a college player and this is a guy Coach Stotz at Stanford has mentioned was the BEST ATHLETE HE HAS EVER SEEN in his program, (were talking a lot of very very good players here) his only problem was he struck out a lot. He told some pro scouts that he would need a year or two in the low minors and they would have to accept him learning how to not strike out. He could not afford to put him in the Stanford line up as they needed to win.

That was my thinking as well. He alluded to my son needing time to develop, so I guess he figured most college programs did not have the time to invest in him if he could only give them a year or two once he started growing into his man body? Him not being able to throw 90 yet made me think being in the minors would mean getting pummeled so much it might mess up his mental toughness. So maybe he was being kind, but you wonder why someone would give an unsolicited compliment like that.

BTW - I see a bunch of other posts. I'll try to respond to them soon. Thanks

Find a pitching coach. Not a guy who says he's a coach but a real pro. He'll be established and he'll be very busy, with all types of players from HS, college and even the pros. If he's really good, inevitably colleges will be approaching him on who he's got in the pipeline.

Time is running out, there's not allot of time for experimentation. Unlike hitting where it takes 1000's of swings to perfect a change in mechanics. A tweak in a pitchers mechanics can get surprising results in one or two bull pens. Then he'll need to throw 1000's of pitches to replicae his delivery.

VELO IS KING. Go to any college camp you want to, the kid who throws 5 balls over the catchers head at 91 will be the guy they'll be talking to at the end of the camp.

A D1 player becomes ineligible after 4 seasons of collegiate competition, or when 5 calendar years have elapsed from first full-time enrollment in any college. A recent addition to the rules says that he must enroll full-time not more than one year after graduating from high school, or suffer severe eligibility penalties.

D2, D3, and NAIA schools become ineligible after 4 seasons of competition or when he completes 10 full-time semesters. This offers more flexibility to a player who needs to interrupt full time attendence.

There is nothing special about a "redshirt". It just means that the player didn't compete at all (or got a waiver if a seaon-ending injury occurs early in the season), and therefore didn't consume one of his 4 seasons of eligibility.

Realistically "redshirt" is just a euphemism which means "not good enough or healthy enough" to help the team this season. Still, that's a lot better than "never going to help the team".

Players at a 2 year college can, assuming the academics are in order, transfer to any 4 year school without penalty.

Players who have attended any 4 year school (including D1) can transfer once to a second 4 year D2, D3, or NAIA school without sitting a year. There are a couple of exceptions, but generally a player transferring from any 4 year school to a D1 has to sit a year. Players who start college at a 4 year school and then want to transfer to a D1 typically follow the 4-2-4 approach, transferring to a JC, getting a AA degree. At that point they can transfer to a D1 without sitting.

You may see these transfer rules as a strong reason to place your son in a D1 school. I'd advise against it, unless he makes a big step in velocity this spring. A D1 roster typically carries the maximum allowed 35 players (no one else can even practice with the team in the spring). Of those 25 can travel with the team. Approximately 50% of the rostered players don't actually play. I suspect they're not very happy; I do know that there are a lot of former D1 players at JCs and D2/D3/NAIA schools.

We (parents) tend to hang on EVERY word from scouts and coaches. We would be better served to follow the tried and true approach to getting into a college and take the vast majority of compliments and criticisms with a grain of salt. (You will understand the tried and true approach if you visit the HSBBW regularly). In my opinion your greatest challenge will be helping your son determine a good match or fit for his athletic talent and his academic goals. Personally I wouldn't rule out JUCO, or any level of college, weighing ALL the factors --- academics, athletics, cost, distance and of course the two most important factors: the male female ratio and whether the team wears fitted hats. You have your work cut out for you and you must remain proactive exploring all avenues for your son.
So is it pro or college? With your son's credentials that would be a no brainer for this father of a former college/pro player ---- COLLEGE!!!!

Regarding JUCOs...I wouldn't rule them out. While it's true that often academic underachievers attend, there are many high GPA student-athletes playing at JUCOs. Players are there for a variety of reasons.

We have found the JUCO son attends to be a great developmental step both athletically and academically. Classes are smaller than at a large university, but the work is challenging. And, yes, there are some very easy courses you can take at any JUCO, but there can also be some very good college intro courses, also. For us, having baseballson spend first two years at junior college was a great move. His high school GPA was simialr and his SATs were fine. There are some negatives at junior colleges, but there are at any 4 year school, too.

"of course the two most important factors: the male female ratio and whether the team wears fitted hats" Now, that's funny....and true.

I say let the young man develop naturally---at this point he has not even played a varsity game

I have a slightly different view than most people have posted.

Colleges are looking for the right now – very few d1 programs have time to develop a pitcher beyond shining up an already decent set of tools.

While you said JUCO is out of the question, some JUCO programs at least keep the pitcher on the roster so he can throw bullpens and grow into his body.

For a big body kid it may take a while to develop into that body and get the velo up to a point where a d1 will take interest. The pros, however, have a totally different time frame.

Here is a story about a local San Diego player who had virtually no playing time in either HS or JUCO (because his pitching coordination had not caught up to his size). In HS this kid threw 85; in college his velo began to increase, but he lacked command and control. You can look up on minorleaguebaseball.com what he did in his first season as a pro.:

Griffins’ reliever signs with Pittsburgh
© East County Sports.com
SAN DIEGO (7-7-10) — Grossmont College freshman reliever KEVIN KLEIS has been a virtual unknown during the past couple of seasons of his pitching career. Considering that he stands 6-foot-6 and weighs 220 pounds that might seem a bit unbelievable.

How could a pitcher Kleis’ size who throws as hard as he does be overlooked?

In brief work over two varsity seasons at Grossmont High Kleist twirled only 3 1/3 innings. As a freshman at Grossmont College last spring, Kleis was classified as a closer, toiling only 18 1/3 innings while recording three saves, a 1-2 record and a 5.51 ERA.
Nothing flashy to be sure.

But the Pittsburgh Pirates are looking at Kleis’ upside and must like what they see. A 27th round draft pick, Kleis was pleased to announce he was about to ink a lucrative signing bonus with the Pirates and was slated to report to Pittsburgh’s spring training headquarters in Tampa, Fla. on Thursday (July 8).

“About a month into the season (Pirates scout) Sean Campbell began making regular communication with me,” Kleis said. “He kept texting me asking when I was going to pitch.”

That was a tough call for a reliever.

“I remember one time about the sixth inning texting Sean telling him I was going to work the 8th and 9th innings,” Kleis said.

Kleis will officially sign a pact with the Pirates on Friday (July 9) and then report to the Pirates’ Gulf Coast Rookie League team in Tampa.

“Some people think I intimidate batters with my size, but I’m not sure if that is true or not,” Kleis said. “Every guy who steps into the batter’s box believes he can hit whoever is on the mound. For me it’s visa versa. I believe I can get anyone out.”

You might want to look into Santa Clara University out here in CA.

FWIW I can tell you from personal experience that Santa Clara does not have the luxury of supporting an athlete so they can develop. They have a smaller roster with higher level of scholarships since the school is expensive and does not have deep endowment money.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

But you don't want that process to begin now, trust me, he needs to go to school and mature both physically and mentally.

Thanks for the welcome.
I am on board with you regarding the pros. With where he is at now, he does not seem to have the physical or mental maturity to handle life in the minors regardless of his "projectibility".

quote:

I am not sure what you have done to help your son to find a program to play at, if this is what he wants to do. You have to be proactive, you can't wait for anyone to come knocking on your door, especailly the large D1 programs in FL.

I have not done much being more old school. It seemed crazy to me to spend thousands of dollars to travel and send him to showcases and tourneys last year as a junior. Now after all the information I've been gathering it seems that is the only way to go unless your kid is a can't miss mature stud. I just assumed since he has pitched since he was very young and everyone felt he had a future, he would have been on someones radar. I guess it does not work like that anymore. Live and learn I guess. I just hope it is not too late for this coming year.

quote:

He now should be seriously working on conditioning, a good long toss program and perhaps some qualified instruction on mechanics, his 2 seam, 4 seam FB, CB and CU (forget the slider, that should come after he develops the other 3, he doesn't need that now). This is a process like everything else, one step at a time. And yes, he needs to be playing varsity ball.

I had a top D1 pitching coach(well known former pro) work with him for a few hours this summer. He pointed out his physical deficiencies such as core, back, and leg weakness. However he loved his mechanics and said he would be definitely be pitching for a program in college. The only question is going to be what program will take him now knowing he is at least a year or two away before he can contribute. He said the top universities do not have that luxury, and it is either win or your job is in jeopardy. Sadly it sounds like that is true at every level with winning now being put above the kids future, and it being just like a business.

BTW - I do have him working with a personal trainer once a week when he is not practicing with the cross country team, and he does long toss 3-4 times a week.

quote:

I am suggesting that you look into the showcases that Perfect Game does during the winter in FL, for evaluation

I was going to start a thread asking what were the two or three best things I could do this fall and winter to get him exposed and hope someone will see his potential. Since there is plenty of info about him in this thread, that might help other posters to give the best suggestion/s.
I am looking at PG website, but it is not easy to navigate, and I do not see any figures on how much things cost. It also looks like some tourneys are coming, but I have no clue how to find a team that will be participating in them.

quote:

You have not indicated where he would like to attend school (inside or outside of FL). Again, don't wait for the largr FL D1 programs to come knocking at the door, it's not going to happen.

He gave me a list of colleges, and it is the who's who of top 25 D1 programs. Needless to say it will have to be revised. He is open to leaving Florida, and would consider either coast. He'd prefer a college that has good weather because coming from Fl it would be tough to deal with snow.

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quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
Unles I missed it I didnt see what your son was doing for training to get stronger.I think this is the key for many players.A good workout /nutrition program can do a ton for a player like this.

He is running cross country to build up his legs more, and he hits the weights whenever he has time. The personal trainer gets with him several times a month to show him new things to work on. Starting this coming week the HS trainer will have the baseball team working out 3 times a week. He eats like most other kids, but he is also supplementing with protein shakes twice a day.

I am always open to suggestions.

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quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:

Colleges haven't shown any interest because he has had no useful exposure. No tournament exposure, apparently (looks like you edited your post, but earlier it implied this is his first year on varsity) no high school exposure, and an average 84mph fastball is not very special in a showcase setting. Also, 190 lbs is typical for a 17 year old 6' 4" boy. Sure, we can reasonably expect that he'll get bigger and stronger, but so will a lot of other boys, some of whom throw quite a bit harder now.

I just edited the post now to show he played varsity last year. You are not the only one to be confused by the way I worded it, so I cleared it up. Sometimes I am not putting my thoughts into the keyboard correctly.

He has been pitching for 10 years and has been successful at every level while playing up a year or two. His coaches and I have always emphasized control or velo, and it looks now like maybe we made a mistake. I know some kids his age who are throwers, not pitchers, yet they hit 90+ and are signed already. I guess my old school control over velo philosophy might not have been the way to go. Then again I'm not sure how much harder he could throw at this age being physically immature.

quote:

He may have mound presence and is mentally tough, but who has seen it? Put another way, what pressure packed situations has he done well in--and been seen doing it?

You're right, and that is something I need to remedy. Any time he has joined a travel team he is the #1 guy, pitched in the championship game if they made it, and done very well. However it has typically been just local competition so I doubt many college scouts have attended. I was having him play more for fun during the summers/fall, but I am coming to the realization I should have had him on teams that go to places the scouts are at.

quote:

Getting recruited to college has some aspects of a campaign, especially for players who have college potential, but aren't studs. His campaign is behind the typical schedule.

That is the reason I came to this forum so I can hopefully catch up while there is still time.

Thanks to all who are helping me out. I will be back later to read and respond when I have some time.

Vector,
With your son just having started his senior year and little interest being expressed by college coaches, there is a lot of work to do.
Based on experience, I would recommend your son first of all decide if he is willing to expand his horizons, not just geographically, but by Division.
While I would not conclude, from what you have posted, that he is not a DI quality pitcher, the lack of visibility and the process being so far along works against him.
While it is true, as some have posted, that the very top DI programs may not have time to allow pitchers like your son to mature and develop, that is not true of every good, solid, quality program. Some that are not fully funded or have lesser budgets actually plan around players/pitcher who are projectable. They know that resources/academics limit them from being at the highest level every year so they recruit and "build" accordingly.
While it isn't easy to identify those programs, they are out there.
On the other end of things, with your son's academics and baseball profile, I could provide the names of 10-15 top academic and baseball DIII's that would love to have him. At this point, this board is filled with DI recruiting discussions, and rightfully so.
The plain fact is it is a numbers game and many DI quality players are just not going to get placed in DI spots that "fit." If your son is willing to look at the upper level DIII's for academics and baseball, that needs to be decided and he should start identifying and calling/emailing coaches, most of whom will become active for recruiting in mid to late October.
To get your son started, if DIII is an option, with weather being a factor, he can look at Emory and the top SCAC schools like Millsaps, BSC, Trinity(Tx.) and Rhodes for baseball, as all of them are very, very fine on the academic side.
Finally, from the experience of our son and a number of his teammates, maybe it might be reassuring to know that, in my view, the bottom line isn't necessarily whether your son is "DI" at this point.
The quality of the player gets measured each and every year from this point until college is finished. That quality can and often does change, dramatically.
Over those 4 years, a number who are recruited at the DI level don't have the success or experience they had expected or hoped.
Perhaps an equal number get recruited at the DIII level and end up being very fine DI quality players by the time college baseball careers finish.
As Fungo noted, you and your son have work cut out for you. In the world of college baseball, most of the recruiting posts right now are from the top looking down. I thought it might help for you to get a perspective from the "bottom...DIII" looking up. Frankly, it isn't a bad view at the top echelon baseball/academic DIII's.

quote:

he hits the weights whenever he has time.

That isn't enough.He needs to be working on a good weight lifting program three times a week.Preferably with a trainer that can give him a specific workout for where he is.

I would have to say that a consistent workout program through out high school and now into college, along with a disciplined nutrition program, plus the protein shakes were among three things that were the difference for my son in becoming stronger and more athletic.

I just am confused by several posters in the last few weeks.This is not directed toward original poster but a general observation.

Parent comes on here presents their sons.Seems as if many are good students , but physically not the guy the D1 schools are looking at yet.Parents say academics come first above all else.

Parents say their sons want top D1 programs.But yet those programs aren't looking at their sons at this point(and that can change in a second).

These parents go on to say they are adamant against attending JUCO, some have said they dont want their sons to get Fluff degrees.Some have said JC is full of students who don't value education, and are poor students.

I am confused, if ACADEMICS are your primary concern, then there are many, many schools out there with wonderful academics, D3, D2 , NAIA that many of these players could probably play for.

I think people need to start just admitting its D1 that they and their sons want.And until that is exhausted then and only then will many move on.

fanofthegame

I am going thru this right now with a player. His HS Coach wants him to play with us so his game will improve.

The kid is a solid D-II / D-III player with great grades.

This weekend we are in a tournament in front of D-II and D-III programs. He tells me he isnt coming because it is INCONVENIENT for him, his words not mine. He wants to attend the events nearby with D-I programs in attendance.

It all goes back to the fact that many parents and players have no idea what it is all about.By eliminating the D-II and III levels the young man is limiting his prospects.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
fanofthegame

I am going thru this right now with a player. His HS Coach wants him to play with us so his game will improve.

The kid is a solid D-II / D-III player with great grades.

This weekend we are in a tournament in front of D-II and D-III programs. He tells me he isnt coming because it is INCONVENIENT for him, his words not mine. He wants to attend the events nearby with D-I programs in attendance.

It all goes back to the fact that many parents and players have no idea what it is all about.By eliminating the D-II and III levels the young man is limiting his prospects.

I will reply to the others posts a little later, but wanted to quickly address this incorrect perception as it relates to our family. I have no issue with my son going DII or DIII, I just know JUCO is not very likely for the reasons I previously mentioned. Heck I'd love for him to get into a school like John Hopkins (DIII) that he could not otherwise have a chance to be accepted academically.
If I had to guess why my son really wants to play DI, it is based on two things. First and foremost he thinks playing DI gives him a better shot at playing the pro game some day if he is good enough. The further "down you go" the less likely you will ever be seen. Whether that is true I don't know, but unless you are a stud I can see where that has some logic. However my current focus is getting him into a great academic school, with baseball being a means to do that. I think his second reason for wanting DI is facing the best competition. That of course might be related to the first issue, him thinking that if you do well in DI, it means you are a better player than doing well in DII/III, hence MLB interest.
Believe me I've told him to focus on getting a good education, and anything else will be gravy. As a 17 year old kid who is dreaming of pro ball, he like most others his age see things slightly differently no matter how unlikely the goal is.

Sort of off topic, but regarding running cross country: My son's trainer does not want him doing a great deal of running - he reserves that for basketball and s****r players. My understanding is that if a player wants to build his legs, he should work on a weight program plus some specific exercises related to explosive strength. For instance, my son pushes a sled with hundreds of pounds on it to build his leg strength. By focusing on his weight program and nuitrion this summer, he put on 10 pounds of muscle in the first 6 weeks. It is amazing what can be done with a consistent (3x a week), well designed program and the right nutrition.

Good luck.

Vector,
It's all in the perception.
Infielddad's son attended D3 and was drafted, Fan's son began playing at JUCO and now in a D1 program and great school (USC). Her son was also one of those that didn't go to the gym when he felt like it, he did it everyday, he knew that is what he needed to get to where he wanted, as he was not considered to be at the D1 level physically when he came out of HS.

FWIW, my son's AA roomates, one came from a D2 and one from a JUCO after 2 years. Some of his drafted college teammates began at FLORIDA JUCO programs. I don't think it's always about where you start, but how hard you want to work to end up where you want to go (in your son's case to play pro ball later on). Don't be fooled to think that because he might attend a D1 program he is going to get more "looks" and get drafted. It doesn't work that way, there are many, many D1 programs that talented players attend and never get drafted.

And throw out that notion the scout put in your head, my pitcher was very projectible to play pro ball, but almost every scout's advice, go to college first. Of course this doesn't apply to everyone, but that was what was a better option for him.

I am sorry that you arrived here a bit late in the process. You would have learned that you do not have to break the bank to get your son seen, get him physically ready for consideration for the college experience (which is different depending on position), especially living where you are in a baseball state that has sunshine 365 days a year. But it does take a plan, one that begins before the players senior year, to help you get where you want to go, and that plan may still have to be implemented even after he graduates (2 year to 4 year as an example).

As far as wanting to attend the best program and the best school, I am sure that all players want that, as do their parents, but all players take different paths, much depends on where they are come the fall of their senior year and the whole idea is the RIGHT and appropriate path, not always the one you want. As Fan said, that can change, her son is an example.

You have told us what you would love to see your son do, mentioned what his grandfather and mom would like to see him do, what does HE want to do, does he really want to play college ball? This is when the player has to decide what is important, if he wants to play beyond HS, then read over TR's comments, you have to consider all options.

We all understand the reasons why most want to play D1, but I am going to tell you as I have said on many occassions here, it is NOT for everyone. Something to think about. You can get a great education and play great college ball and not even attend a D1! What is more important at this point in time, which path will make more sense to him to get to play college ball at a D1 (if this is what he may want).

What you need to do is sit down with your son, throw out that list of top 25 D1 programs and start over. My suggestion would be, instead of trying to drive yourself and your son crazy with feeling pressure, explore the 2 year opportunities available here in FL, probably wouldn't even cost you much if he qualifies for FL State money for education. Then you can give him some time in getting adjusted to going to school and playing baseball, a better work out and conditioning program, good instruction and then after a year begin the 4 year college search or maybe he might get drafted. I think most folks think that because our sons did well in HS and played 25 games a HS season, they can handle the rigors of what lies ahead, and it's NOT easy, nor is it even comparable.

I'm not sure you want to give up on D1 programs just yet. If your description is accurate there's a chance come the late signing period with some improvement. Just have backup options.

Thrit,

I agree this player should not look down upon any program.I think its fine to shoot for the stars. Just don't burn any bridges along the way.

TPM, your post was really good.

I am not telling any poster that their player cant achieve his dream, I have no right to do that. My own son was just like the boys in these posts.

Its great when it all works out, it can be devastating when it does not.There are fine players at all levels.There are good and bad coaches at all levels.

College baseball at any level is grueling and hard work.Best of luck to the players not getting the looks they want.I hope all of you play college baseball and have a great time.

I am just excited that my own son who is just starting his junior year made a pot roast dinner with potatoes and carrots the other night.

Its the little things that sustain me these days. LOL

And that he had to get off the phone with his dad, because he had to clean the kitchen.I about fell over when his dad told me that. LOL

College is more than baseball. So much more.

My son just told me he cleaned up his room.

quote:

My son just told me he cleaned up his room. Smile

They don't do that at home.?????

After the dorm last year, my guy is happy to have a room.

OMG..my son washed my floors tonight! I asked him if he was getting ready for dorm living next year!

He went on a "real" college visit yesterday and got to see how the freshman live and then how the juniors live! LOL...

To the OP, your son needs to keep his options open, all options. Professional players come from all over, even high school. What they have in common is hard work and luck, yes luck ...

My sons favorite quote "Luck is what happens when perseverence meets opportunity"

quote:

My sons favorite quote "Luck is what happens when perseverence meets opportunity"

Great Quote.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
of course the two most important factors: the male female ratio and whether the team wears fitted hats.

Now that is a funny quote

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I say let the young man develop naturally---at this point he has not even played a varsity game

I edited the OP to indicate he has played one year of varsity in his junior year.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

Based on experience, I would recommend your son first of all decide if he is willing to expand his horizons, not just geographically, but by Division.

He has not taken an intractable position on DI, so I'd say everything except JUCO is possible. I say that again because my wife says JUCO is plan X on a scale from A-Z. While I want to do what is best for my son, I also want to survive to see him play once he is off to college.

quote:

While it is true, as some have posted, that the very top DI programs may not have time to allow pitchers like your son to mature and develop, that is not true of every good, solid, quality program. Some that are not fully funded or have lesser budgets actually plan around players/pitcher who are projectable. They know that resources/academics limit them from being at the highest level every year so they recruit and "build" accordingly.
While it isn't easy to identify those programs, they are out there.

That is good to hear, and I sure would like to be able to figure out which ones are like that.

quote:

On the other end of things, with your son's academics and baseball profile, I could provide the names of 10-15 top academic and baseball DIII's that would love to have him.

Again my ears are wide open as DII or DIII are certainly within the realm of possibility. Feel free to let me know here or via PM.

---

Vector,

TPM's post was outstanding.

Most kids are pretty disciplined in their work ethic towards baseball, at any level in college. Working out, perfecting your talent, for many becomes a way of life. For those who don't, "one and done" is a phrase that comes to mind. kids compete at high levels for years and train rigourously to play college bb. At the Stanford camp, a couple of years ago a coach summned it best. " You have 150,000 HS players graduating every year, there are 300 D1 schools that average 10 new recruits each year for a total of 3000 openings, do the math."

"It's not for everyone"

While the JuCo experience may be plan X for your wife and the grandfather, it would provide a small window for your son to become adjusted to his body and develop, if his goal is to truly play pro ball. Moreover it would buy him some time on what major he would like to pursue and if his major will allow him to pursue baseball and vice versa. Science majors, engineering, etc.. Will be a strecth at any level. Check any roster profile at D1 D2 D3 NAIA and see how many pre-med or engineering majors are listed.

"It's not for everyone"

D2,D3 excellent opportunities to play baseball. And you'll probably not experience the revolving door of players a D1 program has with players who are recieving bb money. The boys school cut a dozen kids from last years program. If high/ prestigious academics are the families goals your probably looking at a 30+ on the ACT. A 3.6 gpa was the average gpa of the local state school, he'll need to offset his average gpa with big test scores. Or get his velo up.

Of course everybody's experience is different, but these are the realities that we come to know regarding my sons walk.

This ride just seems to get more interesting. As some know from this thread we have not done the requisite things last year to get our son exposed as a junior. I was also told he is more projectible for the pros rather than college(one mans opinion), but that still surprised me.

We received a call this morning asking if our son could throw for a scout from a MLB team this coming weekend. He apparently heard about him from a former AA guy who was an assistant coach on a travel team.
Now based on what you already know about us in this thread, does anyone think it is a bad idea considering we'd like to see him go to college? For that matter, is something like that ok "NCAA rules wise" from our perspective? I cannot see the harm in it, but I would not want to run into a problem that could affect my sons eligibility somewhere down the line.
Lastly, from other parents experiences, is this a common thing/request?

No harm in having a scout look at your son, he better be in top form though, sounds like a favor, take advantage of it.
Scouts don't normally ask players 10 months before the draft to throw a BP for them.
Many scouts have their eyes and ears open for coaches they have relationships with, tell the scout your son's situation, he might have conncetions. He might know of a scout team as well.

Recruiting wise, you've already acknowleged Vector Jr. is pretty late in coming to the party. Most of the kids I know, started the process 2 years ago. The strategy allowed you pick and choose both high and low profile showcases, tryout for scout ball and travel teams with the primary goal of competing against stiffer competition, so all types of schools could evaluate his skills. More importantly it gave the player a very good idea on what it took compete, who your competition was and helped define what your level of commitment was to your goal.

Not sure what others opinion might be. My perspective. Well.... Vector Jr.has about 2 years of time to make up in the recruiting process. The simple truth IMO, the luxury of picking events for a RHP with an 84 mph fb, flat cb and a good cu has probably passed him by. If HE WANTS TO PLAY COLLEGE BALL I WOULD ATTEND EVERY SHOWCASE POSSIBLE, NO MATTER HOW IT SHAKES OUT AT LEAST YOU KNOW YOU DID EVERYTHING POSSIBLE

One last thought on projectability. Don't confuse projectabilty with ability. No scout or recruiter is going to tell you that your kid is c****y. Projectability to me, means that a player, has the minimum skill set to compete at a given level. With the outside chance being average or the remote possibility of becoming dominate. It does not mean IMO his current skill set will eventually improve to where he might compete. FWIW the litnus test on projectability IMO. When the guy who labels your kid projectable and he's in the stands for every start.

For TR
"He tells me he isnt coming because it is INCONVENIENT for him, his words not mine."

Not enough time in my day for a follow up
phone call to that kid!


For V,

Should the "RHP with an 84 mph fb, flat cb and a good cu" not be able to throw to spots is
simply an uninspiring HS JR sign.

Yet, the 6'4 190 lbs and with this final HS year
may become a spring SR HS 2011 NLI sign, thus recommend he continue to getting it done in the classroom, and on and off the field.

"If you have seen it once (i.e. touch 88), then
you will see it again!" as so stated!

Might also see dividends from a fall / winter College pitching clinic.

USF is hosting a Prospect Camp on Sunday, Sept. 26 from 9 a.m. - 5 p.m.

Another is to get in touch with Coach Rooney and Coach Palumbo at UCF who may provide guidance on winter clinics. Tell em Bear sent you.

Well guys I wanted to run the latest by you all and see what you think. The pro scout could not make it this weekend, so we met with a former D1 pitching coach to see him pitch. I asked him to be brutally honest with me, and he promised that he would. So I sat back and watched my son give his usual performance. Afterward the coach said he was expecting the typical HS kid who had little future at the next level, but instead was pleasantly surprised. He said my son is just the type of kid he use to love to sign because kids like him flew under the radar of the top D1's. His evaluation was almost identical to others and my own, but he said "his curve had some good bite to it", which surprised me. Sure it is effective at the HS level, but I think he will need to improve it or go to a slider at the next level. Anyway, and this is the rub, he said to watch out because pro scouts also love this type of prospect. I kid you not as I did not say a single word to him about what that former pro scout had told me. When I asked him how it was possible that the pros might be interested in him at this stage he said the following. He is projectible to be something in 3-4 years which is beyond what most colleges can wait for. He said he had that problem with other kids he liked being lured to the pros in the past. He also said a kid with his potential not already signed would be easier to "snatch" than a kid with a ride to a top D1.



Regardless it is always nice to hear people say such positive things without them being paid, where you might suspect they are trying to build him up because of the $$$. Still I have to scratch my head wondering how so many people who have seen him like what they see, yet the interest does not match up with the rave reviews. I guess it is imperative I get him out to PG and some camps at schools that would be a fit for him.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector:
Regardless it is always nice to hear people say such positive things without them being paid, where you might suspect they are trying to build him up because of the $$$. Still I have to scratch my head wondering how so many people who have seen him like what they see, yet the interest does not match up with the rave reviews. I guess it is imperative I get him out to PG and some camps at schools that would be a fit for him.

I think that we have tried really hard in several posts to tell you that (get him out and get him seen).
The situation is that your son probably is very much like a good portion of pitchers out there (especially in south Florida), so in reality, taking out the projectibility, you have to have something to wow them now for them to show interest.

That is strange, another poster said today that their two sons were in the same boat, but went on to play college, yet that post is now gone missing. I read nothing in the post to indicate any rules violation to where it should be removed by a moderator. I was hoping to actually converse with them about their experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector:
That is strange, another poster said today that their two sons were in the same boat, but went on to play college, yet that post is now gone missing. I read nothing in the post to indicate any rules violation to where it should be removed by a moderator. I was hoping to actually converse with them about their experience.

Vector, I think the post you may be talking about by BillBill, has been moved by the OP to after high school and changed slighly.

You guys are pretty funny, if you don't want your sons to play college ball or just think your sons are too good to play college ball, just make it known to the pro scouts and see how they do for $1,100 a month.

There are a lot of players who are rated 9 by PG who are trying to make the starting line ups at good college programs.