Sons been bumped - advice needed

Well, I think you have it mostly right. If I am reading you correctly, the JV shortstop got moved down to your son's team (the freshman team?) and has bumped your son to the outfield.

Just from the facts you describe I would deduce that: 1) the coaches like the other kid at SS better than your son (otherwise he wouldn't have been playing on JV in the first place,) and 2) Your son was able to play another position, which made it possible to move the other kid into the freshman SS spot.

I don't see it as your son being "penalized." The coaching staff seeing who the best players are for the positions. Sure, your son should let the coaching staff know that he wants to compete for a MI position. But for darn sure let them know that he will play anywhere they need him.

I don't really see any unfairness here. Try not to instill that attitude in your son.

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Have to agree with RK. I told my boys for years, "the guy that stays is the guy that plays... you're always a twisted ankle away from fame and fortune..."

cadDAD

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Your read on the siuation is correct.


While I do happen to believe that he is being dealt with a bit unfairly, I also believe that is a minor issue in the larger scheme of things (time for the parent to tell the child that life is unfair...). I do understand (and mentioned to him) that they are positioning the players as best as they can with who they have. When that happens, not everyone will be happy.

I haven't mentioned my opinion on the fairness to him, my wife may have (she is quite upset). I have mentioned the reasons the coach(es) may have made this move and the advantages that playing outfield. In fact, my son and I discussed a very similar scenario to this a few days ago and he (my son) then mentioned some advantages to playing outfield.

He's have a harder time seeing those advantages now.

My main question (which you answered) is how to address the freshman coach at this point. Thanks for the reply.

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Perhaps put yourself in the position of the OF'er who now sits down, and perhaps the kid who was 26th on a now 26-limit (or whatever) roster...

cadDAD

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The reality is the other kid is ahead of our son in the shortstop pecking order. That's why he was on JV. There's always the chance your son will pass this kid. But if he doesn't, in the future is it better to be the starting centerfielder or the backup shortstop on varsity? Moving your son to center doesn't mean he can't play short. But it is opening up more opportunity for your son to start on varsity in the future.

There are no guarantees in a baseball program. Things change from year to year. New players may tranfer in. Players may transfer out. Some players develop. Some don't develop. Your son is not being penalized. He's not being treated unfairly. Your son is being provided one more option to succeed in the future by being versatile. I'd look at it as a plus not a minus.

RJM and AcademyDad,

I already have thought through the outfielders' situation and realize that problem as well. There is no roster limit, so nobody is being cut from the team.

I did know that the pecking order is what it is right now. IF the coach allows him to compete it could be a good thing as well - let the best man win. That's why I wondered if would be good for my son to ask the question.

We also know the player who is moving down and his family pretty well - good folks and probably also disappointed.

Thanks again for the responses.

quote:

I haven't mentioned my opinion on the fairness to him, my wife may have (she is quite upset).

It's your son's game, not yours, not your wife's. Your son is not being treated unfairly. There's a better shortstop on the team now. Your son has only been moved to another position. Almost everyone still playing by high school who isn't lefthanded was "the shortstop" at one time. As the talent funnel narrows every position on the field is better than any seats on the bench.

Here's an example of unfair so you can gain some perspective:

A friend's son was in the Mets organization. He was very successful. But the Mets don't like to bring up rookie position players. They would rather sign veterans. David Wright is the only home grown position starter on the Mets. The Mets signed a veteran off an independent team rather than being up a .300 hitting AAA player.

Then he was traded to the Marlins and behind Ramirez and Uggla. After two all-star minor league seasons the Marlins decided they didn't need him and released him.

He signed with a Japanese majors team as a second baseman. A month later their old all-star second baseman (playing MLB) got homesick and returned. At twenty-nine years old he's playing center field for the first time in his life. It's play center, sit on the bench or quit. How does your son's situation look now?

RJM

That's a great story. I'll pass that on to my son.

That was also an unfair situation - my main point is not with the unfairness - life IS unfair - and the unfairness is spreading all around - to the shortstop being moved down, to the outfielders that will be displaced, etc., etc. There will always be unfair situations in baseball and life. I think the key is how to deal with it and hence my question.

RJM and AcademyDAD - do you agree with Rob Kremer that my son should 1. say he will play anywhere but 2. he would like to compete for the position?

That's the essence of my question, not any perceived unfairness. (I might be completely off base on that, but should my son still ask for the opportunity to compete for the spot?)

Thanks for enaging with me on this

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Personally, I think he should take his glove and sprint to the OF. Talk on the baseball field too many times leads to people asking, "what motivated him to ask that?" And how was it asked? Communication is not always received as sent. Coaches have bad days too.

OfcrKID#1 was a 3B frosh year in college. The team had no one capable of "gathering in" errant throws at 1B, and he ended up at 1B for remaining 3 years. 6'3" 220#. College average was .335. Got to the pros and two draftees that same year, both higher than my son, one is 6'6" 245 and the other is 6'7" 285. OfcrKID #1 is a far better defensive 1B than either of them, but both of the other guys can hit a baseball 500 feet. Son ends up in LF, but stays in line-up. Fair? Who knows... his dream for now lives on....

But one thing I don't agree with, and that is that LIFE IS UNFAIR. I don't think that's true.

I'd rather think that Life is a breakfast cereal. Some laugh when I say that, but think about it... some kids end up deaf, or blind, or with cerebral palsey. Unfair? I don't think so... Mysterious ways... I'll bet Einstein couldn't hit a baseball, but he could make a killer bagel.

Life is a breakfast cereal, and we make of it, what we make of it.... Count every blessing imaginable, no matter how large or small.

cadDAD

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Thanks for answering the question - you certainly addressed my concern with talking to the coach - and a difference of opinion from the other advice. I'm still torn on which is the best direction for him to take.

Why don't I just edit out the statement about the 'fairness'? I overstated that and it has obviously detracted from my main question.

Fairness might be worth another thread, but I'd rather get advice about the main question - thanks for addressing that.

The best Players ever to play the game were Outfielders.

Mays
Mantle
Ruth
Clemente
Bonds
Griffey
Dimaggio
and the list is still growing??

EH

I fail to see where the problem is. Playing the outfield isn't exactly a penalty. That's a little league mentality where you hide the weakest kid in right where he don't get hurt and can pick the dandelions up in the outfield. It's a whole different ballgame in high school where they can play and all 9 positions are key. If the player's upset, then he's gotta knock it off and get over it. Players change positions because coaches think they're off there for a reason. When my kid went into high school, he converted fron SS to the OF because that was his best shot on making the freshman team, hoping that he'd eventually make varsity. He was also a pitcher who threw on freshman and JV ball but as a varsity player, was used as an everyday outfielder and didn't pitch. Even though he wanted to pitch, he never complained even though he was a reserve as a freshman, he played and started at the , jv and varsity levels.

You do what you gotta do to stay on the field.

Look at the versatility as a badge of honor...and that the coach likes your son enough to keep him in the lineup. That is a very good thing.

I never get the idea that moving to the outfield is a demotion, especially centerfield. The two best atheletes play center and SS. I believe it is a good thing for your son to be moved. First, it is good that he is versitile and gives the coach options. Secondly, if you/he think it is a demotion, then a little humility is a good thing at this time because most players have to face this situation, and the sooner the better IMO.

If the kid who came down from JV was never sent to JV in the first place your son would have been in the outfield to begin with. No need to tell the coach he wants to compete for an infield spot because he already knows he can play there. Like others have said, run to the new position and certainly don't sulk because it will show in his play. If you son performs well at his new postion the coach will only think better of him.

Let him embrace the OF and learn everything he can. Remember down the line a college team will carry 6 OF and only 3 MIF. I helped lots of SS over the years find a OF position at different levels ...thanks to versatility.

MIPitchDad ... Your son's versatility will help him get in the varsity lineup some day. Mine was a freshman SS who was moved to 3B and OF as a junior because he was vesatile and the team needs dictated the moves. He had an excellend SS playing one year ahead of him, and an excellent SS playing a year behind him. So coach moved him to play 3rd when that guy pitched, and RF when that guy pitched. As a senior, he is now fulltime in the OF and loves it. (Feels like he finally has a position of his own).

Our coach does not like to pitch his shortstop. Is it possible your coach likes your son as a pitcher also and will want to develop him there?

I don't know about the 6 OF and 3 MIF stuff, but I think you're getting the point. Versatility is key in baseball. My two oldest are recovering short stops - one played 3rd, 2nd, SS and outfield in college, the other plays 3rd, short and 2nd, and honestly thinks the outfielders have the most fun and wouldn't mind a shot at it if the other guys weren't so darn good at it. Mine were/are just happy to have a spot on the field and your boy will feel the same when he gets over his bruised feelings, which he will. Remind him that this is not Little League anymore - they don't put you in the outfield to hide you, they put you there to make the big plays that can make or break a game.

I also wanted to add that I'm impressed that his coach took the time and effort to call him and talk to him about what was going on. Many would have just let the boy see it on the line up card and let it go at that, so kudos to him.

IMO, It is the matter how you want to look at things. Your son didn't get bumped, he gets another opportunity to play baseball. I know my son has already played LF,1B, and pitcher in two games his first year playing Freshmen ball. He is just happy to be in the starting lineup .... knowing there are 45 other guys that didn't even make the team through tryouts. "Brooks, you know what we get to do today? We get to play baseball."

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Just to beat the point to death...

- Long road from here to there, as cadDad points out...a geat deal can happen. A whole lot of drama can be avoided by working hard and blooming where you are coach planted and being ready for the opportunties as they arise...and long term they most certainly will. Hard at the time to understand but, looking back later you will see that hard work, skill, physical and charcater development and the path to the prize that you seek...even if you do not have control of specific situations.

- That being said, and getting to your original question....I WOULD advise your son to communicate with the coach privately in a positive, and thoughtful manner, assuring the coach that he will work had and get it done in the OF, and expressing his continued desire to be available to play MIF when/if the opportunity arises. Not only will the ability to communicate in this manner be of great help in any future dealing with coaches,(and this is likley only the first time of many, many times that your son will be in situations where communication key) but is it is a great life skill, one that pays dividends far beyond position or baseball. Even if he already knows the drill, Can't do enough if these kind of things, it is part of the life skills that baseball offers.

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WOW--I find this typical of the parents thinking today---I may be old school but I look at it differently and I see only one thing--"My son is still in the lineup"

The kid HAS NOT been bumped--he simply changed positions

quote:

Originally posted by JT:
Look at the versatility as a badge of honor...and that the coach likes your son enough to keep him in the lineup. That is a very good thing.

SO TRUE...

And it wont stop in college....My son was recruited out of HS as a SS.....backed up a JR SS his freshman year and played some 2nd and short when minor injuries came up....

Sophomore year He started at 3rd base.....
Junior year, 3rd base..then 1st base...
Senior year, First Base and Catcher........

Versatility is a virture, had he insisted that he only play SS, His pine splinter collection would have been legendary...

And the key to being moved around and not benched or cut is...? Hitting! You are still in the lineup and will get your at bats! This is the biggest seperator, who can hit!

By all means learn your position, and I agree with TR, this is not a demotion, just being moved, but continue to work on and improve your hitting skills. That is the tool that will take you the farthest.

I've heard plenty of big league players say they are there to hit and don't really care where they play with a glove on.

I was going to say the same that mythreesonsdad brought up about playing the outfield is not the same as being in the outfield in Little League. He should be glad he is somewhere other than collecting splinters.....Not everyone can be the shortstop just as not all kids that can throw the ball hard can pitch.

I hope your son can just stay in the lineup, that will show that he is a true athlete and that is certainly not an issue. Just like the people on here that complain about being moved around in the batting order, you are still getting to swing it.

quote:

Originally posted by MIPitchDad:
He is very disappointed in this move and doesn't understand why he is being penalized. I suggested that he first tell the coach that he is happy to play anywhere they ask, but to also ask if he still has the opportunity to compete for a middle infield spot (he'd also like to play 2nd base).

Is this good advice? Should he instead just be quiet and do what he is asked without question?

Do yourself a favor and get over it. Put it in a box and bury it NOW. Do not discuss right or wrong, what's fair what's not with your son. Becuase it's pointless and counter produtive. Any conversations at home, regarding a coaches decision will only exacerbate the perceived problem. The only thing your son needs to do, as soon as possible, grasp the fact that he's still playing. And rejoice.

The simple reality of your concern is if he contacts the coach to discuss anything, there's at least a 50/50 chance that the coach will assume that your son is being put up to this questioning by YOU. At this point rational thinking is out the door. Are you willing to risk zero playing time by playing this card, for the ill perceieved notion that this would be character building.

I understand you want your son to be able to build character by expressing his disapointment. And your intentions for him are good. Your encouraging him "Talk to the coach", " This is what you need to do"," This is up to you","Handle it" "If you have a problem take it up with the coach" " He'll respect you for voicing your concerns". This is all well and good. As stated earlier, if the coach feels that your son is being directed by you, sitting on the bench will start looking good. He'd be wise to start building his character through his acceptance of things he cannot change and to learn that "He can control only what he has control over".

For the naysayers. Here's the Catch 22. What kid, let alone a HS freshman would approach a coach, questioning a coaching decision without first speaking with his parents. Conversly what coach would assume a kid was speaking without direction from his parents

Pure in simple this survival mode for the coach. Nothing good will come from this. The coach has a job to do. He's trying to manage 20+ kids. He cannot lend an ear to your sons feelings. If he does he's screwed. by a multiple of 20

EOR

quote:

The coach has a job to do. He's trying to manage 20+ kids. He cannot lend an ear to your sons feelings. If he does he's screwed. by a multiple of 20

Good post.

I would minimize maintenance and maximize production to stay on the field.

Our son's freshman year played third base - he has played infield since he was in T-ball so no surprises here. Sophomore year hopes for varsity -gets put in JV outfield with his 11 1/2 glove. Was disappointing but used the opportunity to work developing his arm strength and hitting. Summer after sophomore year plays in a very competitive league - third base - leads in offensive summer stats. Son goes in to talk to varsity coach with summer stats and explained he wanted an opportunity to get a shot a varsity. Coach listened but promised absolutely nothing. Son went to all the preseason conditioning and such - tries out - makes varsity and starts third base. Go figure. In this instance I think it helped that our son talked to the coach but he is a Junior this year - not a freshman.

Lessons learned:
1. Never give up - ever
2. Have a good attitude and work ethic - attend all the conditioning workouts
3. Don't let mom and dad get involved - kids are gonna have to figure some of this on their own
4. Being a versatile player - infield/outfield is a good thing.

Have fun as it passes all too quickly in HS!

As a high school coach (and I'm not speaking for the coach involved but my perspective) I never have a problem with a kid asking me about playing time and position if they approach it the right way. I have to make decisions that affect the whole team and I can't let my decisions focus on one person. I have to do what's right for the whole team and this is where players and parents lose sight of the bigger picture in most cases. They don't step back and look at why I did what I did.

I'm approachable so if a parent wants to talk I'm OK with that as long as you do it at the right time and in the right way. After a game is not the right time. Starting off how we are cheating your son is not the right time. If you want to talk to me do it after a practice or come to school during my planning period and we will sit down and talk. That being said whenever I make a decision I sit the kid down and explain it to them but that doesn't mean they hear me or get what I say back to mom and dad correctly. Sometimes I don't communicate very well and I think I present it in a way that is understandable but the kid has no idea what I'm saying. It happens.

As for why I would move a kid down - my biggest reason is he's not ready for it. I made a mistake and this kid did not live up to my expectations or standards. I got two ways to handle this - put him on the bench or move him down to where he can develop at an appropriate pace. If he rides pine then I'm doing him and the team a disservice but if he moves down now it's on him as to how he handles it. I am going to explain everything to him and I don't expect him to be all happy go lucky with it right away. I want him to be a little mad because it shows me he has a little fire in him but the next time we take the field he better have the right attitude. If he's still pouting then he's hurting himself.

Maybe the kid coming down to Frosh ball is on his last leg with the coach. I hope that's not the case but I've seen it.

As others have said the OF in high school is not like the barren wasteland of talent like it is in Little League. Your better players need to be out there.

I have had several parents / players over the years gripe and complain when I move a kid to another position because we have a shortage or I think he will progress at the new position. My standard response is "he can stay at _____ but he's not real high on the depth chart. If he moves to _____ then he's probably going to get in the lineup much quicker. Would you rather he play or sit the bench." So far no trouble with that. It opens some eyes.

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Coach2709's post... FROM A COACH"S PERSPECTIVE (!!!) is perhaps one of the best explanations I have seen on this website, in answer to all those parents whose kid has been the LL star and now has to fight for a spot in that "ever shrinking funnel" called competitive baseball.

The funnel gets tighter at every level change... exponentially. You are as far away from a 25 man roster in High A ball, as you are from LL to High A.

Coach2709's post should be earmarked (not in a Washington kind of way...) and brought out every time a soon to be frosh parent worries about his kid not being the team SS.

cadDAD

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quote:

life IS unfair

With the exception of tradgedy life is as fair as you make it. Anything outside tradgedy falls under fix it or deal with it and move on. People who dwell on unfair and the other guy always getting the breaks live unhappy, jealous lives. Make your own happiness. In your son's case it means start shagging balls in center as often as possible. May it be the worst thing that happens in his life.

I forgot this one. My daughter was switched from short to right field in high school softball. There was a better shortstop. There was already a good centerfielder. At midseason she had a revelation, "No one is after my legs breaking up two in the outfield. This is the best my legs have felt in midseason." When the travel season started she requested a switch from short to outfield.

Good points from all - thanks for the advice from everyone.

I especially wanted to heard from a coaches' perspective - thanks for that - esp 2709. If I had to be that frosh dad that generated that question, so be it.

While I did let of a little steam last night, I know that it is a good thing to do some outfield - this isn't the 1st time he has been there, by the way. On his travel team last year, he was a starting utility man - played a lot of positions and always started. My son and I even discussed this exact scenario (moving to the outfield) a couple of days ago - we just thought it wouldn't happen until next year - it's actually better that it is this year.

I also let off the steam here, so that I won't do it on the sidelines. Thanks for letting me do that.

For now, I think he is going to quietly do what is asked of him and possibly discuss this with the coach in the future. He also will have this coach as a position coach in another sport in the future, so he absolutely must keep a good relationship with him (which I believe he does right now). I also think that the coach is reasonable and won't hold it against my son if he does mention his desire to compete for a MI spot.



Also: Part of the same conversation was that he wants my son to be the 2nd starting pitcher. So that may be true about shortstop/starting pitcher. Just so happens that he'd rather relieve, but that gets back to the original point - he'll need to accept/embrace the coaches/teams needs.

Thanks to all again - and keep it coming - even if you tweak me in the process - it's worth it to receive this advice.

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MIPitchDAD,

With all due respect... if you think you've been "tweaked", hang around here for awhile. We don't always say it in the most eloquent of ways, but there is pretty good advice around here from time to time...

cadDAD

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quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
As a high school coach (and I'm not speaking for the coach involved but my perspective) I never have a problem with a kid asking me about playing time and position if they approach it the right way.

...if they approach it the right way.

EXACTLY. Agreed, Most don't, but IMO effective two way communication and reading people and situations, and "approaching them the right way" is a valuable skill. As a coach, as a player and a person. One more tool.

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Interesting tidbit regarding pitching, could be a reason for the move.

As a freshman my son was a ss and pitcher, as a sophmore he got to sit the bench as a pitcher only, he was much better than the ss. He would NEVER think to ask, as an underclassman who hasn't proved himself.

Good advice given here. Advise your son that you always do what's asked from the coach (unless it's harmful), even down to carrying the equipment or gatorade jug if asked.

I always tell kids:

"If you can hit, they will find a place for you to play."

It may not be a kid's favorite position or a parent's preferred position, but if you can hit, they will get you in the lineup. And everybody wants to play right?!

quote:

It may not be a kid's favorite position or a parent's preferred position, but if you can hit, they will get you in the lineup. And everybody wants to play right?!

That's right. It's about getting in the lineup.

Besides, the newspapers usually report highlights of a pitching hitting highlights. Not often a defensive play highlights make the paper so it don't matter what position you play. They're all important. ot quite a few writeups in the paper for multi-hit games or game tying and game changing hits. You can't get those writeups sitting the bench.

When my kid played, as a solid offensive player getting his 3-4 AB's a game as worked his way in the middle of the order to get those opportunities and telling his high school head coach he'll play anywhere he needed him. It didn't matter where he played. He had his preference and played his natural position most of the time but he moved around and didn't care. Playing was it.