Sophmore year, Spring cuts

Just think how you would feel if it were your son.
There will be some bitterness for some, they will think there kids were treated unfairly. The hard part is those marginal kids that might have made it if there hadnt been transfers.
I would tell them that their kids can still work hard to come back and make it. Ive seen kids cut and come back the following year and make it.
If the kids just playing for fun, he just might have to move on, the more serious ones need to talk to the coaches and ask what skills they are lacking and work hard to improve. if your son makes it , it will be a little uncomfortable because there will be some jealousy, it comes with the territory.
Be supportive, and just lister when theyre sharing their hurt and dissapointment that any if us would have when their kid doesnt make the HS teams next level.

I can't offer much in the way of advise.
I know a coach at a large high school that has over 100 kids try-out every Spring. He said its never easy to cut kids. He has to deal with escalating parents every year on this issue. Parents that have had their kids in "club" teams for most of their lives. He said picking the starters and backups is easy. The hard part was selecting those kids to fill in the remaining spots. Given all have relative skills, he picks the kids with the best attitude or appear clean cut. (i.e. No flat bill caps, or long hair, etc.) He's had to tell parents he cut their kids due to the kid's attitude. A hard, straight talk, conversation. But, the parents usually know it and don't come back with much of an argument.

On a related note (and this may or may not help)I found a little paragraph I'm sure you may recall:

Micheal Jordan played basketball for Laney High School in Wilmington, North Carolina. Ironically, Jordan was cut from the varsity team as a sophomore. Instead of giving up after failing to make the team, Jordan used it to spur himself to greater achievements, practicing hour after hour on the court. "Whenever I was working out and got tired and figured I ought to stop, I'd close my eyes and see that list in the locker room without my name on it," Jordan said, "and that usually got me going again." He eventually made the team and led it to the state championship.

Thanks for the advice. I am just a little leery of the parents. We are family friends with the older kids and a couple of freshman that could bump the older kids out of a spot. The politics have already started. The incoming freshman catcher who is a friend and a teamate of my son on his 14U team played up a couple of games over the summer on the varsity team when they needed a catcher. All I heard was,"Why did he let that kid play up when our sons were available?" Two of them catch.

And all the catcher did was throw out the only guy who tried to steal second and hit a grand slam. I think that we are going to lose some friends over the HS baseball issue. And my son is only in 8th grade. I know I can't control anything. Just trying to be prepared.

Is it always like this when a young kid takes an older kids spot?

I guess there is a silver lining for living in an area where HS beg for players to fill teams. I hate these cut scenarios.

In our Legion program which encompasses a couple school districts we have implemented a program that leaves "no player behind" when the numbers exceed the available spots. However, there is a commitment from outside sources to make it work.

Those cut from the team are offered the opportunity to work on their game with volunteer coaches, ex-players, and mandatory volunteer time from the players that made the team. The sessions are 3x a week, and evolve into practice games with the "A-Team". The results are all positive...

The players with desire that did not make the team are fleshed out.
The players that made the team know that there is a group sniffing for their spot the next year which instills hard work
Positive interaction between the "A-Team" players and the reserves keeps the program positive.
If injuries and/or disciplinary actions reduces your roster there are players in the system to fill the void.

It would take a lot of work in and out of a HS program to make this plan work. But if a program is consistently cutting a big number of players every year it would be to the programs advantage to nurture these players that have passion for the game instead of dropping them into the school parking lot. If the numbers are there it would not be that hard to find some outside sponsorship, an empty field, and volunteers to improve this groups playing ability. The HS team could also get involved in some practice games and all the positives listed above may also be attained.

We can all shed a tear for these situations, but it's all talk until you step outside the box and try to do something about it.

quote:

Is it always like this when a young kid takes an older kids spot?

That was our experience. But since we didn't really know the parents of the older player(s), the bad stuff came from the parents of players 2B's age who were jealous that he got the shot instead of their boys.

It'll be tough, Doughnutman.

Believe it or not, a lot of this takes care of itself, so don't worry yourself to death about it.

First of all, the kids are smarter than you may realize. Most of those who end up cut see the writing on the wall well in advance. Next thing you know, they decide not to try out this year. Or maybe they suddenly become interested in lacrosse.

In our area there is no middle school baseball. Pretty much everyone who tries out has relied on travel ball to prepare. Travel teams tend to sort out in the teen years into the haves and the have nots, so players usually have a good idea going in as to where they stack up. It's the parents who are the problem, but good coaches learn how to handle them (more on that below).

We allow 8th graders to try out for JV. Depending on the year, sometimes 1 makes it, sometimes 2. One year it was 5, the high water mark. What this means is, when they show up as freshmen, most of them have experienced getting cut already, a lot of them don't bother to come out, and the rest may try but they know going in they are at risk. It's not a big shock. In the end we see maybe 10 freshmen make JV (we don't have a freshman team), so maybe 7-9 new kids since the prior year come into the program at that point.

By sophomore year, pretty much only those 10 are even trying out. The rest have found other sports, jobs, or girls to fill their time. In fact, usually a couple of those 10 (the ones who didn't play much the prior year) don't come to tryouts. So you're down to maybe 8 guys in the class. Most of those guys stick it out through their JR-SR years on varsity. Varsity cuts very few guys; there, playing time is where all the friction is.

The coach pretty handles it like this:

1. Players are told at the outset that if they have a beef, at their age they are expected to fight their own battles. No running to mommy or daddy. Most of the kids would be mortified even to think of their parents showing up to argue with the coach.

2. For the few parents who do show up, they are told that since they didn't see the other boys, they have no way of arguing that their kid was more deserving than the ones who made it. Glad you could stop by, I have another meeting now, good bye and good luck.

It is a rare boy that stops being your son's friend over this. If so, he wasn't much of a friend, so don't sweat it.

Some parents will never get over it. To them, their son's getting cut is an insult to their entire gene pool. All you have to say is, you don't know what the coach was thinking, but of course it was not your decision. If they continue grousing at you, avoid them. You will find they spend a lot of time to themselves, because everyone else avoids them, too. That leaves you and the reasonable people on the other side of the room having pleasant conversation. And you all live happily ever after.

No need to worry about such things. Just be grateful if your son makes the cuts. And don't be too sure he will, or you might get blind sided yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
1. Players are told at the outset that if they have a beef, at their age they are expected to fight their own battles. No running to mommy or daddy. Most of the kids would be mortified even to think of their parents showing up to argue with the coach.

I told my wife to watch my sons expression. At the dinner table one night, I blurted out that I had called sons coach. Son asked why and just glared at me. I couldn't keep a straight face, I bust out laughing and told him I'd never call his coach. I love suckering my kids, it's a fathers birthright.

My experience was that the parents that I only had a common bond through baseball with, faded away rather quickly. The ones that I would joke with at the games about all manner of social issues, those relationships go on to this day.

It wasn't a division of the haves and have nots.

When do we stop with the "all kids must play" syndrome ?---sooner or later the lesser talent gets eliminated---just because a HS/Legion player wants to play does not mean he can---I think it is more for the parents than the kids--as noted above most kids in HS know the story

quote:

When do we stop with the "all kids must play" syndrome ?

That surprises me TR.

I think any kid that has the passion for the game, and a desire to be part of a team should have that opportunity. If the resources are there, isn't it in the best interest of the game, and our society to keep kids involved? Or, maybe we take that 14 yr old and put a skateboard or Gameboy in his hands and sell the glove at the next garage sale.

quote:

The bad news is that several of my sons friends are probably going to be cut for the first time in their life. The rumor is that maybe half of last years Freshman team.

" Probably " and " rumor ",....there's a whole lotta gray mattter and not alot of " for-sure's " in that combination.
My advice would be to see what really happens and not put the cart ahead of the donkey.* edited: should read " ahead of the horse ".

Does your son have to try out as well? My son had to try out every year. We never assumed he would make it from year to year,...( 4 year Varsity starter ) but we did do alot of hoping.

quote:

Lets see what happens before we put the cart before the donkey.

shortstopmom,
From what I've heard in the past, it's cart before the horse. There's no political overtures here are there?

Danny Boydston,
None at all,...but now that I read what I wrote,..I'm gonna edit it! Woopsie.
Thanks for the heads up.
Its been a looong day and I appreciate your insight.
~ Thank you ~

( When I refer to the phrase about the cart before the horse,...I always think of the fruit carts in Mexico being pulled by donkeys. My bad.)

( T.G.I.F. )

Actually if the young man has the belief in himself and his ability all the parental jibberish means nothing---the young man sleeps well at night

Just kidding shortstopmom

~ I know,...thank you! ~

Doughnutman

quote:

All I heard was,"Why did he let that kid play up when our sons were available?"

That's the beauty of sittin' out in comfie centerfield,.... you don't hear those kinds of things.
Granted, ya dont make a whole lotta friends either, ( then again, the less ya have, the less ya have ta' loose ) but you sure do get to watch one heck of a ball game uninterrrupted and free of any parental b. s.

Mildo Dad,

Great advice from the coach about how his players shoud handle them having a beef. This is what happens when a parent gets involed. Last year first year of Varisty for son another players father conered the coach after a game to speak about the lack of son's playing time. The coach listend and was cordial with the parent. The player never saw the field again. Leason learned by all the parents.

Brian S,

Getting cut for the fact a player wears a flat billed hat. That is rough. Especially if the coach was not up front the first day and tells all the players he does not like flat billed hats and when it comes down to a choice between two equal players he will select the player that does not wear a flat billed hat. Now the players can take their chances with a flat billed hat. Could imagine the fathers expression when son tells him I got cut because I wore a flat billed hat. Wow.

Great thread. Enjoying it.

Midlo right. Dont worry about it. When kids are younger everyone plays. Some dads start a team and everyone is playing and enjoying the game. Usually the dads kids have nothing to worry about. When new players are needed the coaches kids posistions are never recruited. "We need to get an outfielder." But as the kids get older and they start to separate in ability and the people running the team no longer control the outcome things start to change. The guys that were your friends will fade away when their kids dont make the team. Why? They dont need you anymore because you cant help their kid. They will resent you because your son moved on and theirs did not.

Its not your fault and its not your kids fault. Its just the way it is. Dont sweat it because they really were never your friend. They were just someone that hung out with you because they needed you and or you did the same things together. A friend is someone that doesnt need a thing from you. Doesnt want a thing from you. They are just there for you and are your friend no matter what. Baseball is a game. The kids will go their own way. Sooner or later they will go their own way. Sometimes when they get to middle school. Sometimes when they get to high school. And then its off to college will they will go their own way.

It happens all the time in baseball at all levels. Good friends and one gets picked for the all star team and the other does not. The parents no longer speak to oneanother. Good friends one makes varsity the other does not. They no longer speak. One makes all conference the other does not. Hard feelings. One gets a scholley the other does not. Hard feelings.

There is nothing you can do in situations like this. You will find the better your son is the less friends you will have around the hs field. The parents of my top players are usually the ones sitting by themselves. They are usually the ones pulling for all the players and the team. They get talked about in the stands. Their kid is the topic of many conversations behind their backs. "He is just not that good." "He will never play when he gets to college." "Joey is just as good as he is." "Billy hit for a higher average last year."

Its just the way it is. When you are around parents of players that are very good. And the parents are confident in their childs ability to play the game. All you hear is them saying great things about the other players. You never hear the negative stuff. Its just the way it is.

The funny thing is Joey is never at the cages when he doesnt have to be. He is never in the weight room. He is never doing anything to elevate his game. But the parents never mention that.

Coach May,
Many of the things you said ring true. If I look back at some of my baseball friends, they fit right in with your thoughts on the subject of teams my son has played on in the past. You have given me many things to think about. Not all of them pleasant.

That's why I love this site.

Thanks everyone.

rz1:

Just because you get cut from your HS team doesn't mean you have to stop playing. I see kids playing rec ball into their teens, college kids playing club ball, and adults in "senior" leagues. Sure, the numbers drop off with each passing year, but the opportunities are there for whoever wants them.

But a HS team is a "play to win" team, not rec ball. Two very different approaches for two very different settings. Show me a HS team with a rec ball attitude and I'll show you a team that gets waxed a lot -- probably the team with the most grousing in the stands that you'll ever see anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by 2Bmom:

quote:

Is it always like this when a young kid takes an older kids spot?

That was our experience. But since we didn't really know the parents of the older player(s), the bad stuff came from the parents of players 2B's age who were jealous that he got the shot instead of their boys.

It'll be tough, Doughnutman.

Same here. There are parents of older kids who seem antsy that their son may lose playing time to an underclassmen, but the real animosity is derived from the jealousy of parents of younger players who did not get invited up to varsity.

just a quick story that came to mind.
when my oldest played aau/travel ball,they were a pretty good team. most of them 8th graders but one or two were freshman. one of the freshman boy's tried out in the spring and made the freshman team. his dad was very upset,made him quit. no freshman made the jv team as they were deep at all position's.reality is due to injury's that year he would have been called up. he was a very good player for a 14 yr old,dad had college player asperations.
we had talked about his decision,as he was a friend.but he was enamered with the travel,uniforms etc that aau offered. i hadn't even heard of the HSBBW back then would have been really helpful.
at that time,in our area. we didn't really have any travel after 15, i think. then you played legion or sr babe.

when dad realized not many college coaches are looking for players that don't play high school ball. (at least back then anyway). the boy came out as a jr and had 2 great years. went to college but stopped playing.

maybe this doesn't fully belong in this thread, for some reason it reminded me of that young man and his family. things worked out fine in the end,they usually do.

quote:

reality is due to injury's that year he would have been called up

At every level......................

And what will you say, when their kid gets into Stanford and yours enters a JC? Will you come over to complain that it was not fair?

The great thing about high school is that there are many other sports for the kids to play, as well as clubs, activities, leadership, drama, AP and honors classes etc.

If they really want to play, then they had better get faster and stronger and try again next year or transfer to a school where they can play. (and yes I am aware that is hard in many districts). I agree with the previous posters that it will come as no surprise to the kids.

P.S. You mean that coach would cut major league talent for a flat brim? Doubt it. Doesn't he ever watch the pros?

You might get surprised and find out there are some classy people out there. My son took the starting job from a senior. The senior helped and encouraged him all year. When my son got benched for two games, and the senior took his job, the senior told him to keep his head up, and he'd be starting again soon. The seniors dad was just like his son, he was the loudest voice in the stands. And he cheered for all the kids, including my son. I hope if we were in the same position(dont want to find out), that we would act with the same class.