Fighting - how do you deal with this issue?

I agree.  I was traveling yesterday and spent a good chunk of time on my flight following along.  I did not want to jump into things via my iPad last night and when I looked for the thread today it was gone.  Things probably got more heated than the OP expected but I think it would have been helpful for others to see how things worked out (for the OP, not on the thread).   

I agree.  Lots of good debate.  Should have stuck around. 

I think he said something derogatory about my mother. That's why it escalated so quickly.

I think locking it would have made more sense. But I respect the decision.

To my recollection, there was only one derogatory remark.  It seemed to me that it resolved pretty quickly, much more quickly than I have seen many issues get resolved.  I thought it was a good thread as well.  Subject line changed first, then it disappeared.  My guess is that the OP really didn't like some of the feedback and asked to have it pulled as opposed to a moderator pulling it on their own.  It's a shame, because there were some good points made on all sides of the issue.  It certainly gave posters and readers plenty to think about.

And it's still to be debated whether the player was "kicked and punched" or "violently assaulted by a ruffian who needs to be tried as an adult." 

 

So there's that.....

I deleted the thread upon the recommendation of a member because the member who started the thread deleted all but one character of his original post, which made it impossible for new readers to understand what was being discussed.

lol, maybe we should start another thread.  A Hypothetical thread in which 2 players Hypothetically got in a fight and what should be done.  In all seriousness I was disappointed as well.  There could be a lot to be learned from parents, coaches, and players in regards to that incident.

It appeared to me that OP didn't really want advise, but only validation of his own POV. 

Yep. The old hit and run. 

One thing I thought about when I read the thread is that from my limited experience, I don't think kids fight nearly as much as they did when I was a kid.  My kids are growing up in an socioeconomic environment similar to my own as a child, and we had fights all the time, not so much in high school, but certainly up through 7th and 8th grade.  And when fights happened, they really happened. We didn't break them up, we watched them, unless one kid had clearly lost and the winner kept at it.   That kind of stuff very rarely happens in my boys' world.   Is that  good thing? I think so. No doubt somebody will say, "that's what's wrong with this country today - kids don't know how to take care of business anymore!"  Yeah, maybe. But it was also a time when seatbelts were optional, everybody smoked, and drunk driving  was considered normal behavior.  Since they're such a rare occurrence, and people are more aware of the kinds of serious injuries that can result, it's understandable that a parent would get upset and be tempted to inject himself or herself into the situation.

There was definite interest as this one got many responses in a hurry. Certainly different perspectives, approaches and suggested actions taken.

Seems like the last one to get as much passion (person to person, not person to company) was the thread where the Junior college player was to face and pitch against a coach who had cut him, insulted him, shoved him , etc. Their paths had crossed many times and player had a vendetta and couldn't let it go. (Couldn't find the thread, but much advice was sent that young man's way. )

I'm the OP and I appreciate the input.  I pulled it because I embarrassed myself by resorting to a website for information/confirmation on what I already know.  I just wanted to air it out and get different views.  I was shocked by how many people said was okay to fight over words.  To each his own. 

 

The boys got together last night for a practice and the coach met with some of the players.  He received conflicting versions and we all agreed to end.  My son never wanted to pursue anything in the first place but I pursued it because no one beats up on my 14 year old kid, let alone a teammate.  It's all over now.  The boys patched it up and I think everyone learned something.  Thanks.

Pretty well said overall. And while I'm not glorifying violence, and am on the record as saying i don't like the concept of fighting, do you think the fact that you were in fights taught you more positive or negative lessons of life?? (Not well worded, but I hope what I'm trying to say is coming across correctly.) That's a sincere question, not rhetorical at all. I really don't know the answer. 

I would like to take a crack at the question.  In my lifetime I can remember being 5 fights.  4 off field and 1 on field.  I have no negative or positive feelings about them as I sit here at the age of 40.  My only thought is this, I learned a few things from them.....

1) I learned to handle my own problems.

2) I learned that words have actual consequences

3) I learned to put my money where my mouth it

4) I learned to protect my own

 

These are all hard lessons to learn when your parents are constantly solving problems for you and are sticking their nose in things.  Are there are other ways to learn these lessons???? Absolutely, however it seems as fighting has disappeared so has younger peoples understanding of these lessons.  I am not advocating fighting and I would be upset if my child got in a fight but at the end of the day it is about the lesson learned.

I agree.  I don't hear about many fights locally.  I can think of only 2 that my 2016 was aware of since he started middle school.  Both times the fights involved one of his friends (who were beat up pretty badly) and I had to ask him why he and his friends didn't step in and break things up.  In the first situation when they were younger I think he and friends really had no idea what to do.  It was a completely foreign experience for them.  The more recent one he wasn't present (at the party) when it happened but had heard all the details.  My 2020 is clueless but luckily he's the largest kid in the middle school and for now no one seems to want to fight him.

 

The thing that stands out for me about the OP that was deleted is that it did not seem to be a fight (if OP's account of the event is accurate).  It seemed like he was attacked for lack of a better term.  I don't see that as an appropriate response to trash talk at a team football game, regardless of what was said.  Yes, even if he said something about his mother.  Now, if he says something, the player stops him, says something back, words lead to blows, that's another thing all together.  Both players would have had an opportunity to either back up their words or back down.  In this case the OP's son did not have the opportunity to back down or back up his words (apparently).  

 

Again - I understand we have only one side of the story and who knows what actually happened.  Kids today trash talk and make wise comments all the time with each other.  It's a long summer/fall season that involves a lot of time together and lots of comments.  It's reasonable to expect that you can make a wise comment to a teammate without being attacked (or punched and kicked) in return.  Maybe I just have high expectations for kids today.  

This is really what I meant. Positive or negative lessons learned. Thanks for saying that better than me!.

Negative overall I would say, but mixed feelings. I did learn some lessons about myself, both for good and ill.  When I was in the 6th grade I had a huge fight with a kid who had bullied me constantly for the whole year. I hated that kid, but I didn't want to fight him because A) I afraid to and B) I felt sorry for him as his dad had died the year before and we had that in common.  But one day he finally got me to fight him and all my anger came out and I beat the crap out of him with all of the boys we knew watching.  After being picked on for so long, that felt pretty damn good.  And from then on if anybody messed with me I tapped into that anger and usually came out with the same result. Not a lot of times, but enough, and enough to realize that it was really stupid to enjoy being in a fight, something that a lot of people seem to do.  Fortunately I found other interests and I stopped hanging with the the kinds of guys who liked to look for trouble and I grew out of that.

 

Funny thing about that kid is that after the fight he wanted to be my buddy. I was not interested, but we did commence a very cordial relationship that continues to this day when we see each other.

I take too long to write my posts!  By the time I posted a reply to JCG that I agree that kids don't fight much any more (at least where I live) the OP had posted with the resolution and several others posted.  I'm too slow.

 

OP - I'm glad you were able to work things out reasonably. 

Oh, kids fight, and over stupid things!

 

My kid was flicking french fries in the cafeteria to see how far they would go (yeah, he's THAT kid), one veered off course (who here didn't see that at least ONE would veer off course?)...anyway, that 8th grader got up walked over and punched my kid square in the face, no discussion, no words.  My kid threw a punch back and the teachers broke it up.

 

The other kid got 5 days of in school suspension, my kid got one day of in school suspension...and of course the valuable knowledge that food flicked in the cafeteria ALWAYS veers of course!

OK, glad you guys stepped in and offered up a lot of what I think people can benefit from (aerodynamics of a French fry excepted).  I'm going to change the name of the thread so that future browsers can reference easily with a search.  Too much good info here to start all over yet again...

 

So, as a parent and/or coach, how do you deal with your kids regarding the issue of fighting?

 

If a coach or other team organizer, what safeguards, rules, etc., do you have in place regarding the issue?

I bet my hypothetical kid can kick your hypothetical kids butt! 

 

The original thread was probably one of the better reads on here in awhile..

Not a surprising end to the story,  both kids / teammates are ok, they probably were over the event ten minutes after it was done.

 

 I wonder how that Pabelbon / Harper things going?  Probably not hanging out together during the offseason.

Hopefully this young man will get some help on how to deal w his anger. There will be a lot of trash talking ahead in baseball so he'll  need to learn to let things roll off his back. I've been to college games where crazy fans come to just needle the players from other team. Gotta learn to shake your head and laugh things off. 

The concerning details for me was that he fought his own teammate, he had impacted team negatively in past, and that some kids on team were afraid of him for some reason. Maybe short fuse is why.

Hope team can get past their issues and have fun playing/traveling together. Travel ball can be a great time for all involved.

best to all

Gang, I suggest we keep this thread unrelated to the old thread out of respect to the OP's decision to close that one and so we can keep this one open!

One year I had two seniors that hated each other.  So, I headed it off at the pass.  I called both of them into my "office" before our 1st real practice.  (After cuts)  I told both of them what I expect out of a teammate.  I also told them that my program was above every individual on that team including me and so, the program will survive the loss of one or both of them.  They got the message and we made it through the year without a single incident.  They still don't like each other but they can take care of that up at the local watering hole. 

Glad to hear too.tall! Hopefully, WE all learned something. This board is a great place to do exactly what you did. No need to be embarrassed, we're all learning this parenting thing. If there were a MLB for parenting, .001% of us would be on that team. 

too tall, every one of us has come to this website to ask advice.  Why?  Because there are some darn good people here. I've been on this site for a very long time now.  I've come here with all kinds of problems/posts/... and I have shared the career of my child here.  So have so many others.  Your heart was in the right place!  Good luck!

I hope that you learned from this as well.

Here's a story why a kid shouldn't fight around school or the team ...

 

When my son was ten a new kid moved to town. The kid thought he was wonderful. His dad told the kid at ten he better learn a new position. That kid (my son) will be the high school shortstop in a few years. 

 

It was a ridiculous thing to say to a ten year old. But the kid took it hard. He verbally bullied my son for several years. My son tuned it out. He once commented he could beat the crap out of the kid if he wanted. Freshman year of high school my son snapped and clocked the kid a couple of times. He was suspended from sports for three days. When the varsity shortstop got injured the coach told my son he couldn't call him up due to the fight. 

 

My son was the starting shortstop soph year. The other kid became the starting catcher junior year. By mid season junior year they were friends.

 

This subject has an interesting juxtaposition to the Helicopter Parents thread.  How much do you get involved and how far should you take it. Just how do you find that "happy medium".

 

Did your parents get involved in every fight you had growing up?  Did they know about them? Other than perhaps obvious tell tale black eye's ;-)...  There's some physics going on - for every action there's a opposite reaction. We've learned that generally the "truth" in these matters is at most 50% of what you hear/see with some exceptions. Imposing your morals/beliefs on how other parents (and coaches) should handle things and assuming the "other" participant is always in the wrong doesn't always work out well.

 

Fights are part of life's great growing up lessons. I'm no expert, but I would think in a way they are better than allowing feelings to build up to a level which has results are far less desirable and perhaps make the evening news or morning paper. If someone is known to always be combative, then decisions have to be made regarding the interactions you keep. Cannot just "take them away" from the situation, because then they'll never learn how to "deal with it" later in life. OTOH, there are instances that reach above and beyond and you have to be prepared to walk away. You may not be the only person thinking that. If a majority of parents pulled their kids from a team because of 1 player, the coach has to starting wondering just how important that player is.

 

In any case, an interesting and thought provoking topic for the offseason!  FWIW: I suspect Papelbon won't be back with the Nats, but how that played out doesn't surprise me either. Who knows exactly what was said, but I'd assume it was along the lines of Harper doing exactly what other players have done for years when popping out. I wonder if Paps was recalling his days in the Sox dugout when Youkilis called out Ramirez?

What I've always done is have the team get into a giant circle and the two fighting get in the middle.  Two enter and one exits.  Now with technology I'm going to have someone film it and put it on World Star.  Eventually once we get a following then we are going to look into producing pay per views.

 

In all seriousness I handle it about the same way CoachB25 does.  Try to head everything off at the pass and tell both of them we can live without them.  Usually once they realize it's a very real possibility that they are making a decision they are losing baseball it tends to change their mind.

 

As an AD I see more of these situations now and I use the same philosophy.  You have three choices - 1) learn to get along, 2) learn to co-exist without interacting outside of the athletic field / court, 3) get into a fight and lose the privilege to participate in sports.  I always phrase it that they are the ones making the decision and it's not us / me making it for them.  Always give them choices with consequences.  If you do this then this will be the outcome.  I think this is what helps allow you to handle each situation on it's own merits instead of blanket rules.  

Interesting topic no doubt.... The school environment and society in general is much different than it was when we were in school. I had several issues come up this week that had to deal with this topic.

 

First was I ran into my son's teacher he had last year in first grade. She related a story to me about my son on the playground.  He came up to her and told that some kid was trying to fight him, but he was not going to because the other kid was just trying to get him in trouble. He also added that he was not going to fight the other kid because my son knew he could hurt him if he wanted to. I think there a couple of life lesson in that story. I think I may write a book called "Lessons I Learned From an Eight Year Old".

 

Second was my neighbor's middle school kid got into a fight because he was taking up for a kid getting bullied. He basically told the one bulling the other kid to pick on someone his own size and the fight was on.  Both kids got the same punishment. Is that right/wrong? Guess that depends on your moral compass.  

 

The third was in my HS pe class.  I have one kid in there that is constantly aggravating, instigating, harassing, etc. the other kids in class.  I have dealt with him in class. I have sent him to the principal to deal with, but he continues.  It has gotten to the point where he is reaching the limit of some of those in class and it will lead to a physical confrontation.

 

So there are 3 different situations and all could be handled multiple ways.  What is the best way? I am not sure.... I guess the best you can do is to raise you kids by words and example as how you would want them to handle their lives and hope they live their lives in a way that reflects your values.  Not sure this answered the question on how to deal with team mates...... My answer would closely reflect the words of B25, but maybe I gave some real life examples of how not everything is black/white.

Wanted to add a few thoughts about fighting, pros and cons.  First off, I envision "fighting" as somewhat of a low level wrestling match of 8th graders and below.  Once kids get big and learn how to hurt folks, then "fighting" needs to stop.  Secondly, I think some early age fights do instill incredible confidence in one's ability to enforce their will without too much risk of injury.  In an earlier post, someone talked about kids who witnessed another kid get hurt bad, but no one took it upon themselves to put an end to the fight.  I hope that if one of my sons were to get "attacked" that his friends would help stop the attack and not sit there frozen.  Likewise I would expect my sons to step forward and stop a fight if needed.  The problem is if one kid steps forward and the rest are frozen - much better when the group helps enforce the "rules".  Lastly, these "fights" should generally only happen with known quantities - keep fighting local with kids you can trust.  DO NOT get into fights when you have no idea whether the other kid is going to make a fist OR pull a knife/gun.  Best fights are in 5th grade between "best friends" who end the day as best friends.

A friend of mine went to a Catholic HS back in the day.  When they had a fight in school, they would get the whole school in the gym, have the perpetrators get into their gym shorts (no shirts) and give them those yellow wiffle ball bats - the kind that sting like a sob.  They didn't have many fights.     

I was at a tournament this summer with several different age groups.  When I was walking to my car I saw two kids, two teammates....I assume this because they were both wearing the same jerseys fighting on a piece of grass between two fields.  One had his jersey half ripped off and a bloody nose and the other was cut below the eye and bleeding.  They looked to be about 15.  I sort of paused and thought of finding their coach....but, then I saw him, standing off to the side recording it on his phone.  

So, there you go.  

I had a PE teacher/football coach in high school that would have two guys come in after school and fight in the gym if they wanted to fight.  Boxing gloves, a mat down on the ground, head gear.  When one guy was done, he made them shake hands and told them it was settled.  If they got caught fighting again they would be suspended and removed from the team they were on.  Seemed to work pretty well.  

My one and only street fight occurred when I was 6th grade. We had a couple kids in the neighborhood who were a year older constantly bullying many of the kids including me. They'd push us around and sometimes get in a cheap shot but no one stood up to them including me. My parents knew about but said nothing. Then one day I was at school when they came up and said they wanted to fight and for some weird reason a sense of calm came over me and I said fine. One came out and we traded blows including punches and kicks. He got the worst of it and quit. The second guy came out and sucker punched me but I found out I don't have a glass jaw. We wrestled around for a couple minutes until the cops were on the way and then everyone split. We never were friends after the fact, though they did ask me to play baseball one summer day. I turned them down. They were bullies no more.

 

It is a physical world we live in.

The biggest issue I see with  kids (old and young).  Is that they believe there are no consequences for the things they say or do.  These are usually the same kids that are never disciplined by their parents.  These kids run their mouth / aggravate  other kids until they get their butt kicked then play the victim role.  

A coach taping a fight between two 15 yr old teammates is pathetic.

When my son was about 12 yrs old playing travel ball, we witnessed a fight in the parking lot between a mom and a stepmom.  Great memories.