I'd like to add that steroids or not, no one in here could hit 600 HR @ the MLB level, steroids or not. One cannot simply do a cycle and hit HR.
quote:I'd like to add that steroids or not, no one in here could hit 600 HR @ the MLB level, steroids or not. One cannot simply do a cycle and hit HR.
.....are you trying to tell me that Hank Aaron and Willie Mays are not posting in this forum!!...shoot
An intersting media comment on Sosa, preceded by an amusing comment on the sports media:
The Onion
SLAMMIN' SAMMY NOT ESPN'S GAME
By Phil Mushnick
New York Post
June 22, 2007 -- By now, it stands to reason, it's all a test of will and stamina. Either we'll grow tired of bashing ESPN or ESPN will grow tired of being bashed.
Sammy Sosa hit his 600th home run Wednesday night. And, first on "SportsCenter," and then throughout "Baseball Tonight," viewers who didn't know better - a lot better - would have been led to believe one of the finest sportsmen ever to wear a big league uniform had achieved the extraordinary for all and only the right reasons.
The Sosa story, in ESPN's hands, was stunning for what it ignored. Again, we're left to wonder whether ESPN, which blindly and eagerly latched on to the home run gold rush throughout the 1990s and well into this century, again was playing stupid on its own behalf.
Baseball Tonight, without providing so much as a suspicious comment, showed Sosa's first big league homer in 1989, when he appeared as a 160-pound (maybe) stick figure. They then showed numbers 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 and 600, as if we couldn't notice how Sosa had, er, filled out to resemble an anvil with muscles.
Not once did we hear a word about Sosa that related to drugs, corked bats, walking out on his team after being benched or any other episode that would contribute to Sosa's and MLB's disrepute during his career as one of ESPN's nightly home run derby, Disney action heroes. There was scarcely a hint his career was touched by controversy.
We did, however, hear that Sosa's a lock to make the Hall of Fame. And ESPN also aired tape from Sosa's post-game news conference. Sosa spoke pretty good English on Wednesday, the kind he spoke just before that 2005 Congressional hearing, when English apparently escaped him.
We did hear Baseball Tonight's John Kruk say that Sosa has been "a great ambassador for baseball."
And Pacman Jones is voluntarily taking the year off to work for the Peace Corps. Good grief.
The Onion
SLAMMIN' SAMMY NOT ESPN'S GAME
By Phil Mushnick
New York Post
June 22, 2007 -- By now, it stands to reason, it's all a test of will and stamina. Either we'll grow tired of bashing ESPN or ESPN will grow tired of being bashed.
Sammy Sosa hit his 600th home run Wednesday night. And, first on "SportsCenter," and then throughout "Baseball Tonight," viewers who didn't know better - a lot better - would have been led to believe one of the finest sportsmen ever to wear a big league uniform had achieved the extraordinary for all and only the right reasons.
The Sosa story, in ESPN's hands, was stunning for what it ignored. Again, we're left to wonder whether ESPN, which blindly and eagerly latched on to the home run gold rush throughout the 1990s and well into this century, again was playing stupid on its own behalf.
Baseball Tonight, without providing so much as a suspicious comment, showed Sosa's first big league homer in 1989, when he appeared as a 160-pound (maybe) stick figure. They then showed numbers 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 and 600, as if we couldn't notice how Sosa had, er, filled out to resemble an anvil with muscles.
Not once did we hear a word about Sosa that related to drugs, corked bats, walking out on his team after being benched or any other episode that would contribute to Sosa's and MLB's disrepute during his career as one of ESPN's nightly home run derby, Disney action heroes. There was scarcely a hint his career was touched by controversy.
We did, however, hear that Sosa's a lock to make the Hall of Fame. And ESPN also aired tape from Sosa's post-game news conference. Sosa spoke pretty good English on Wednesday, the kind he spoke just before that 2005 Congressional hearing, when English apparently escaped him.
We did hear Baseball Tonight's John Kruk say that Sosa has been "a great ambassador for baseball."
And Pacman Jones is voluntarily taking the year off to work for the Peace Corps. Good grief.
From my comment on a similar subject in the Illinois Forum...."I heard they found cork in his bottle of steroids!"...I would like to add, along that same line, the following..."The bats he uses are no ordinary bats sawn and milled from any ordinary tree."
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A hand picked young ash tree being prepped for steroid injection.
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The same ash tree just a mere three years later at the end of the tree's steroid regime.
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Unfortunately every bat milled from these juiced trees comes equipped with a court imposed ankle bracelet!
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A hand picked young ash tree being prepped for steroid injection.
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.
.
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The same ash tree just a mere three years later at the end of the tree's steroid regime.
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Unfortunately every bat milled from these juiced trees comes equipped with a court imposed ankle bracelet!
Everyone points to the change in body size regarding Bonds and Sosa----what about AROD, Clemens etc---look at them when they first came up
Adults bodies change as they mature and with the new regimens of diet and work out it happens more and more
One other thing---hitting 500 or 600 home runs takes talent and great ability 'roids or no roids
Adults bodies change as they mature and with the new regimens of diet and work out it happens more and more
One other thing---hitting 500 or 600 home runs takes talent and great ability 'roids or no roids
I am going to tell all of you that think was wrong for Sosa to ask for translation in front of senate, that For a person that didn't learn to write and read his own languaje (spanish), because all his childhood he had to wash cars, and shinning shoes at the time that he was suppose to go to school, it is very difficult to confront a senate panel, or a judge, for example, where words are not as simple as baseball lexicon. Any anglo person in the same case will keep his mouth close and will hire an lawyer to speak for him or will hide behind the 5th ammedment. So Sosa did right when he said that his english knowledge it is not enough to be in front of all those hypocrites that their only job is to sell their votes to the higher bidder. Sosa is a ball player, he is not an intellectual, he learned his way out of the Island thru one of the few honest ways to do it. With a broom handle and a ball made from old cloth, using for glove a carton milk conteiner. How many of those, that want today to crucified him, starting from the same place he did will get that far in life?...how many of those that want to robe him his success, hide behind this cibernetic courtin, to blame something that the only thingh they need to emulate it is to be in the same situation.
What about the corked bat?
This one is more crocked than corked...
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Adults bodies change as they mature and with the new regimens of diet and work out it happens more and more
I agree that bodies change with age. But it's how Bond's body changed that gives him away. Here is a quote from an article on SI.com about the changes in Bond's. The article is taking information from the book 'Game of Shadows'.
Here it is:
You hear all that noise from the Bonds camp and yet most conspicuous is the silence on challenging the facts of the case. Shadows succeeded because it couched nothing and stood unchallenged. My favorite fact: the authors detail in their afterword the freakish growth of Bonds' body parts in his years with the Giants: from size 42 to a size 52 jersey; from size 10 1/2 to size 13 cleats; and from a size 7 1/8 to size 7 1/4 cap, even though he had taken to shaving his head.
"The changes in his foot and head size," they write, "were of special interest: medical experts said overuse of human growth hormone could cause an adult's extremities to begin growing, aping the symptoms of the glandular disorder acromegaly."
You cannot read the book without concluding that Bonds is one of the biggest serial dopers in sports history.
End of article quote.
When Bond's was 35 and had 14 years of MLB service, he was averaging 31.8 home runs per year. A great average worthy of HOF consideration. If history is any indication, one would expect Bond's to finish his career with a lot more home runs but a steady decline in his home run totals. But over the next 4 years, from age 35 to 39 Bond's averaged 51.6 home runs per year. A Herculean effort to say the least.
Sosa's numbers reflect the same spike as do Palmiero's. McGwire's to a lesser degree.
While I do agree that any player can put up a career year I don't understand the denial from people on this site to a) judge these players as players who inflated their stats with steroid use and b)we acknowledge that taking steroids does indeed help you hit more home runs.
Why doesnt anyone answer the question about body size for Clemens and ARod ???
Is there proof that steroids help you hit more HRS? Have anyone seen a study?
Is there proof that steroids help you hit more HRS? Have anyone seen a study?
I've had a chance to meet a-rod, and he is well built he doesnt look like others that have been accused of ussing steroids. A-rod is almost 6'4, so he is gonna be pretty big anyway. and the rocket well from what we all know about him, no one works out more than he does.
rock
Look at the same era pictures for them that you look at for the others---not making an accusation here but I have to wonder
Look at the same era pictures for them that you look at for the others---not making an accusation here but I have to wonder
TR
TR, gaining 2-5 lbs a year(A-rod) over the coarse of a decade is different then gaing 30lbs(Bonds) in an off season.
....Does this mean A-Rod is clean...no, but it doesnt show any guilt either. Bonds gained huge amounts of muscle in a short period of time at an age were his natural testoserone levels were decreasing...only vitamin S and vitamin HGH does this.
quote:Why doesnt anyone answer the question about body size for Clemens and ARod ???
TR, gaining 2-5 lbs a year(A-rod) over the coarse of a decade is different then gaing 30lbs(Bonds) in an off season.
....Does this mean A-Rod is clean...no, but it doesnt show any guilt either. Bonds gained huge amounts of muscle in a short period of time at an age were his natural testoserone levels were decreasing...only vitamin S and vitamin HGH does this.
About the corked bat.
The good thingh about Sosa is that nonbody could probe him wrong. He never have tested possitive in probably dozens of tests in the pass. He said that he used the corked bat to hit bombs for the fans at batting practice. Maybe sounds stupid for lot of people, but why, when baseball took all his bats, including those in the hall of fame, no one, no a single one was corked. You know, we are to easy to judge people, we are to mild to judge our self. How many of us. Do you believe that just because we take roids and grab a corked bat we are going to hit 60 HR?...look, hundreds of players supposedly took steroids, and only three of them hit 60 or more. The only other two that did it, one was Marys that was an accident, and the other was Ruth that was a food taller and 100 lb bigger than everybody else at the time. I think that Ruth record may have and asterisk "maybe the guy was an extraterrestial"
The good thingh about Sosa is that nonbody could probe him wrong. He never have tested possitive in probably dozens of tests in the pass. He said that he used the corked bat to hit bombs for the fans at batting practice. Maybe sounds stupid for lot of people, but why, when baseball took all his bats, including those in the hall of fame, no one, no a single one was corked. You know, we are to easy to judge people, we are to mild to judge our self. How many of us. Do you believe that just because we take roids and grab a corked bat we are going to hit 60 HR?...look, hundreds of players supposedly took steroids, and only three of them hit 60 or more. The only other two that did it, one was Marys that was an accident, and the other was Ruth that was a food taller and 100 lb bigger than everybody else at the time. I think that Ruth record may have and asterisk "maybe the guy was an extraterrestial"
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Why doesnt anyone answer the question about body size for Clemens and ARod ???
Is there proof that steroids help you hit more HRS? Have anyone seen a study?
TR, I think a good look at the MLB power numbers before and during the steroids era would make for a very revealing study. I doubt you would accept it as proof though.
As for A-Rod, his numbers have been the same for a long time now so what's the problem?
As for Clemens, I don't think he has the body of a juicer at all. That doesn't mean he didn't use them, I just don't see it in his physique.
The one guy that I have always felt got heavily into steroids was Lenny Dykstra. I followed his career from his very first game with the Mets. When he was playing for the Phillies he got big very fast. And he did become more of a power threat at the plate.
More asterisks
Negatives
To Hank Aaron record, because hi had 3000 more at bats that Ruth, and played in an easy field to hit HR.
To Babe Ruth record, because the guy never hit against a setup in the eigh, and a closer in the nine. Because he never saw a circle change, split finger, or a fast ball over 85 miles per hour.
Positives
To Mickey mantle, because the guy had 103 injuries.
To Ted Williams because he missed 5 years of his career in a war plane.
To Willy Mays, because the guy used to play in a very difficult park to hit HR.
and so, and so, and so. In few years, roids will be just one more factor of argument in baseball.
Negatives
To Hank Aaron record, because hi had 3000 more at bats that Ruth, and played in an easy field to hit HR.
To Babe Ruth record, because the guy never hit against a setup in the eigh, and a closer in the nine. Because he never saw a circle change, split finger, or a fast ball over 85 miles per hour.
Positives
To Mickey mantle, because the guy had 103 injuries.
To Ted Williams because he missed 5 years of his career in a war plane.
To Willy Mays, because the guy used to play in a very difficult park to hit HR.
and so, and so, and so. In few years, roids will be just one more factor of argument in baseball.
If Sosa was using steroids do you think he thought it was wrong to do so?
I dont think anyone that uses steroids fells wrong about it. do they fell guilty no IMO because they prolly feel others have the opportunity to take steroids as well.
i don't care who you are or what you take, you still have to hit a 90 + mph baseball. no drug can help you do that.
quote:Originally posted by 20dad:
i don't care who you are or what you take, you still have to hit a 90 + mph baseball. no drug can help you do that.
These guys have shown that they are among the few that can hit a 90mph pitch. The steroids help them to do it better, that's all.
steroids also make pitchers to improve speed, and to be stronger for the next start. For example, pitching better after age 40 than at 35.
The court of public opinion has tried and convicted Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, et al. That has served MLB and its fans by putting a face on the problem, but they still have the problem.
I'm wondering what baseball is gonna do when the true scope of the problem is finally unveiled. There may be a great many more poster boys discovered- pitchers, base-stealers, and those who otherwise don't fit the profile accepted by the fan/prosecutors.
Who's gonna be next? Are you ready to change your mind about your hero?
I'm wondering what baseball is gonna do when the true scope of the problem is finally unveiled. There may be a great many more poster boys discovered- pitchers, base-stealers, and those who otherwise don't fit the profile accepted by the fan/prosecutors.
Who's gonna be next? Are you ready to change your mind about your hero?
no i dont think so, When i was young i loved mcgwire. I still do because of the way he hit the ball, go to youtube and watch some of his homeruns. steroids or not it is truely amazing.
STEROIDS, NO STEROIDS, DOES IT REALLY MATTER
I was going to suggest that we should hide this from these guys, but we shouldn't worry...they probably can't find their teeny, weeny little valve stem anyway.
And here's proof that it isn't just guys who go goofy with this stuff...
WEBSTERS, YOU CAN THANK ME LATER! WOW!
Thank you, thank you, thank you TripleDad.
"Plastic or paper sir?" "Paper please...and do you sell scissors?"
"Plastic or paper sir?" "Paper please...and do you sell scissors?"
Paper for me as well, thank you. And I'd like one for myself in case hers falls off. 
This should do spizzle...
