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Sparqball

Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
I found these comments by O44 on another thread and thought that they deserved a place of their own:

"Last year was talking to a former winning world series manager ...he said that every year the organization sent him better athletes...

...but worse baseball players. Guys who could run and jump, but didn't fully understand the game.

I call it "Sparqball". Not looking for baseball players...but rather guys who fit certain physical athletic perfomance profiles. To an extent his has always gone on (see "the look") but with more and broader "Combine" testing it will only get worse."

...

O44's comments were followed by these by TRhit:

observer44

"I totally agree----we see kids who are great athletes who come to us but when it comes to baseball acumen they are severely lacking---in the game of baseball athleticism can only take you so far?"

...

These comments reminded me of an email exchange I had a while back with someone who knows the coach of a summer woodbat team. Here are some of his comments:

"Just today I spoke with (xx) and we talked about his new coaching gig. He is coaching a team in the (X) Collegiate League. We shared so much of the same opinions. He has players from high profile D-1 schools that have no understanding on the true fundamentals of the game.

All of this stuff are things that should be taught but unfortunately there are coaches in positions that don't know better.

Like................

1. Runner on second with less than two outs...............ground ball hit at the SS. The runner should only break for third if the ball is to his left side or towards the second base side of him. I see kids all the time try to take third when the ball is just to the right of them and get thrown out at third base.

Ok, let's try this one............

2. Middle of the line-up left handed hitter at the plate. Runner on first that has speed. At the college and pro level, most good runners have a green light in the right situations to run. Runner steals second with 2 outs...........

Now, this gets tricky but listen.................

Runner on first was being held on by first baseman which left a big hole on that side of the infield. Well now that the runner is on second, the hole is gone. Yeah, the runner on second is now in scoring position, but this also leaves the base open for a intentional walk.

Basically, your chances of taking the bat out of a your big boppers hands has drastically increase. This is something an advanced runner should know and stay put on first base.

On a more basic level

3. Just last night, I went to a (XX) league game to watch an old player I coached and visit his parents. Runner on second, home team up by 1 run which is in the field. Base hit up the middle and centerfielder has no chance at home. But..........he throws there anyway and gives the cutoff man no chance.

Runner that hit it takes second because of throw home and......................

Now what do you have..............winning run on second that is in scoring position.

That is basic baseball 101.................

But it happened last night at a game that is supposed to be played by big time D-1 players. Funny thing was, I watched the coach to see if he would say anything and I honestly don't think he had a clue what just happened."
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P PGStaff10,000+ posts
We had Sparq testing at our national showcase in 2006. One player scored the highest of any baseball player that had taken the Sparq test that year throughout the nation. We did not have that player in our top 500 rankings. 17 players were drafted in the first round from that event. Over 100 players were drafted. The highest Sparq score in the country was not one of them. He is now in his sophomore year in college and is a substitute player with only four ABs last I saw. Sparq testing is much more valuable in football than in baseball. The highest Sparq scores are not the highest draft picks, so no one that counts is really paying much attention. There are many many examples.

It’s not that athleticism is not important, it’s very important, but tossing a big heavy ball is not important. Besides, it’s kind of like, how far could someone who has never done it before, throw a 16 lb shot put? Isn’t the well trained guy, knowledgable in the technique of shot putting going to be better at that, even if he is not a better athlete?

Infield08,

It is frustrating when you see those things you’ve mentioned happen. Coaches who don’t know the game should not be getting paid to coach. but…

I find it hard to believe that anyone coaching at any level of college baseball doesn’t tell their players how and when to advance to 3B on a ground ball to the left side.

The second example, would be the coaches fault. You either give a runner the green late or the steal sign. He doesn’t just run on his own. We even had a sign for you are not running, stay put!

I have to believe the third example is just an errant throw. Everyone in baseball works on this situation nearly every day. I would almost say this is a physical error, other than he probably should not have thrown it at all if there was no play.

Mistakes are made in baseball in spite of knowing what to do ahead of time.
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
To me part of the problem goes all the way back to Little League level. I know around my area these guys are more worried about winning a 7 - 9 year old game than they are teaching the game. For some reason winning a little league tournament is more important than teaching the basics of a game that will help them go farther and farther along.

Plus add to the fact that the coaches who are more worried about winning really don't know the game either. By the time I get these kids they have no idea what to do and they are difficult to get changed.

Another problem you hear, and this is at all levels, is that just because someone is very athletic they overlook mistakes because you can't teach athleticism. Baseball is a skill and you can excel without being a great athlete. But football and basketball require athleticism with some skill. That is why you see good athletes who play baseball do a good job in other sports but good athletes in other sports who can't play baseball.
C CaBB1,000+ posts
I am happy to see that someone as knowledgable as PGstaff doesn't entirely endorse Sparq testing as it relates to baseball ability. We've seen it at many showcases/camps, inc. the Stanford camp and I just don't believe it is an accurate measure of how good of a baseball player you are. I agree it better equates to football and basketball so why is it still being pushed at baseball events?
06catcherdad06catcherdad1,000+ posts
To piggyback on what coach2709 says, I couldn't agree more about kids nowadays not being taught the game at a young age. I've had a summer program with several teams since 2001, but for the last five years or so, we've only done 16u and 18u teams. This summer we have a 16s, 18s and collegiate team as the jr. college players in California can't play for their schools and need a home.

The point for this thread, though, is that I added a 13/14 year old team this spring. We went out and rounded up some of the best 13 year old players, as I wanted to have them for a couple years, to teach them the game the way I believe kids should be learning it. I told them we'd win our share of games, but that winning was secondary to learing to play the game the right way. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. This group of kids is a wonderful bunch, I really like every one of them, but I am apalled at the lack of baseball knowledge these kids possessed coming in. Since they haven't been taught when they were younger, they generally don't have very developed baseball instincts, either. Some of the kids know the game relatively well for their age, but some don't know basic stuff that they should have learned when they were 9 or 10 years old.

One example: One of our kids is on first, less than two outs. Double play ground ball to the middle and he goes into 2nd standing up. He's out and the fielder doesn't even try to make a play to first, so no interference call. Between innings, I talk to my player about sliding on a double play ball next time, and to always slide in that situation. The very next week, last Sunday, he does the same thing in the same situation, goes in standing up; only this time the second baseman attempts a throw so the batter is out on runner's interference at 2nd. This time, I'm a little agitated since we talked about this the week before. When I asked the kid why he didn't slide, he sort of shrugged his shoulders. I reiterated that he MUST slide on a double play ball when he's going in to 2nd, and he looked at me sort of quizzically. I asked him if he understood and he told me 'no, why do you have to slide?' At that point, I sort of knew I was dealing with a lost cause, since this kid's father is a high school coach. How does a guy coaching in high school not teach his own kid something so basic????

I didnt' bother explaining that he could stay up and get out of the way, since I figured this kid might never slide into a base the rest of his life if I told him he might not have to....
C CaBB1,000+ posts
What does this say about me.....I still cut the strings off the sweatshirts of my 18 Yr old (hmm..helicopter parent?).

But, he has had great coaches that have taught him the fundementals of baseball so apparently he's been lucky. Unfortunatley in most little leagues the volunteer parents don't always have the most baseball knowledge to really teach the game.
G gotwood4sale10,000+ posts
.

quote:
Originally posted by CaBB:
What does this say about me.....I still cut the strings off the sweatshirts of my 18 Yr old (hmm..helicopter parent?).


It says you are prudent and cautious caBB!

Do you know how much trouble a loose drawstring can cause if it gets fouled up in the parent's rotor? You don't want it to wind up in there!





.


"I don't care if it was just Silly String© ...look what you've done son. My flying days may be over...and wipe that grin off your face!"


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Last edited by gotwood4sale
06catcherdad06catcherdad1,000+ posts
Bob, I'll call you.

Yes, the Aussies have great fundamentals, at least the ones I witnessed play. I think a big part of the problem in America these days is that not enough coaches themselves know how to teach the game to younger players, and it shows when the players get to high school. I see poor fundamentals exhibited in HS ball every week. I really do believe that the way to turn this around is to teach coaches of younger level players how to teach the game to younger kids. They have to learn it themselves in order to be able to teach it.

I think that too many people these days but into whatever gimmick or quick fix is being promoted, and I view Sparq somewhat in this light. I think Sparq is a good predicter of football or basketball athleticism, but a poor predicter of baseball ability. I can remember when the Brewer's first had sparq drills being performed at one of their one-day Area Code camps, down at Clovis High School. They had kids doing burpees, med ball drills, all kinds of difficult calesthenic moves, and some of the guys were puking - they were actually pushing them that hard. After the players went through their sparq drills, THEN the Brewer's scouts were timing them in 60s. Nobody, other than Devin Shepard, was able to run a 60 that represented what they were capable of, yet that time was used in their evaluation. That is the sort of stuff that causes me to wonder how Sparq and baseball got mixed together.

I'll take a kid with a less athleticism, but good baseball knowledge and instincts anyday; over an 'athlete' with a high sparq score, but who doesn't know what his plan should be when he comes to the plate with a runner on third and less than two outs. In baseball, there just aren't any shortcuts to becoming a player who has what it takes to get to the next level, whichever level that might be. You have to learn the game the right way, develop solid fundamentals and then play a lot of baseball, hopefully against competition better than you are.
ConsultantConsultant10,000+ posts
CatchersDad;

Did I send you the photo album of our three 25 year old conditioning coaches. If you observed the three young ladies "in action" on and off the field, the Sparq drills would be soon forgotten.

Instead of "Charlies" Angels, they were called Bob's Angels.

The Aussies and Chinese team borrowed the ladies for "on the field" conditioning. Last year, we traveled with 137 people, 5 teams and 14 coaches.

I am thinking of starting a "road show" with the Angels.

Bob
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
For some reason winning a little league tournament is more important than teaching the basics of a game that will help them go farther and farther along.
I wandered across a LL minors practice yesterday. The kids were getting awful instruction or none at all. When the coach walked by I commented most of his players had their hands overwrapped in their grip. He said he didn't want to change kids who are making contact. He said they score runs.

It was LL minors kids hitting off field grounders to second. What happens next year when they get to majors? I'd rather lose every game teaching kids how to play properly. The learned skills will show through at the end of the season.

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