How common is it that a coach will ask a player(s) to restructure due to jucos they have coming in. I know the Alabama guy was trying to revoke schollys but I assume asking a kid to restructure is not the same. Anyone with thoughts or even had a son face this scenario?
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my understanding is that it's very common.
Very common. Both ways...up and down.
Very common. As far as whether it is the same thing or not, that's a distinction without a difference.
owlswin posted:How common is it that a coach will ask a player(s) to restructure due to jucos they have coming in. I know the Alabama guy was trying to revoke schollys but I assume asking a kid to restructure is not the same. Anyone with thoughts or even had a son face this scenario?
Coaches can ask players to restructure, but not take away scholarships, unless they have broken ncaa or team rules.
The Alabama coach was fired because he signed players knowing that he wouldnt have enough athletic $$$ for every player.
You probably would really have a hard time justifying to your boss about cutting scholarships under those circumstances, but you can release players to free up money or restructure.
My son was asked to defer some Scholarship money one season to help grab some newly available guys. Wasn't much but he/we were willing to help. Turned out to be a non issue as a few guys involuntarily lost $$ due too academic eligibility.
If asked to defer some money, it should be made up the following year. Thats how it is usually done. Remember that you are doing the coach a favor so he doesnt come up short.
Just piling on. Common. Very common
We were once asked the opposite. Take more this year and less next. Did it. No problem.
TPM postedCoaches can ask players to restructure, but not take away scholarships, unless they have broken ncaa or team rules.
The Alabama coach was fired because he signed players knowing that he wouldnt have enough athletic $$$ for every player.
You probably would really have a hard time justifying to your boss about cutting scholarships under those circumstances, but you can release players to free up money or restructure.
What do you mean by "release players"? Are you saying a coach can cut a kid where the player would retain his scholarship money, not be on the roster and thereby freeing up the scholarship? Just wondering...
The only time a coach must honor an athletic scholarship is to incoming players who signed an NLI.
Scholarships are renewed every year, usually by June, July. So its common that a coach may tell a player that he wont get much playing time, which means, you "should go look for another opportunity". That essentially frees up athletic dollars. Would you stay if someone said that to you?
Not sure how these guaranteed 4 year scholarships work, but I am assuming that is why not too many are awarded.
Recruiting is a skill, so is making the numbers work.
Hope that explains how it basically works.
Jim T. posted:TPM postedCoaches can ask players to restructure, but not take away scholarships, unless they have broken ncaa or team rules.
The Alabama coach was fired because he signed players knowing that he wouldnt have enough athletic $$$ for every player.
You probably would really have a hard time justifying to your boss about cutting scholarships under those circumstances, but you can release players to free up money or restructure.
What do you mean by "release players"? Are you saying a coach can cut a kid where the player would retain his scholarship money, not be on the roster and thereby freeing up the scholarship? Just wondering...
PO jr signed a NLI, along with a financial agreement that stated his scholarship money was for 4 years. I believe 2013 was the first year the financial part could be written as such. Freshman year was a success by all standards. Spring of Sophomore year he was told he would most likely be redshirted. No play time, no real explanation other than redshirt likely. Two weeks before the seasons end. He was called into HC office and told he likely wouldn't fit into next year or the future plans. They offered him a release so he could go play elsewhere. If he stayed, his money would still be available to him, but no team functions other then all the work with zero play time. Chart, field work, pick food & drink, basically the team lacky. They would abuse him enough so he would agree to the release so they would get his scholarship money back.
In the end, he choose to leave. Unfortunately, the NCAA allows coaches to break contracts, and the student athlete suffers. He held up his end of the agreement, but the coach did not. Even though he did not play his sophomore year, he would have to sit out another year if wanted to play at another DI school. He transferred to a DII school, was given another partial scholarship and has had a successful career with one more year of eligibility.
I believe things happen for a reason. We have met some amazing kids & families on this new journey. Remarkably, he holds no grudge against the other coach, but inside I know it crushed him. He has become a better person because of this experience.
I have to bit my tongue every time I hear someone is committing to this school.
D2 offers good opportunities for former D1 players.
What you have described happens in every program, every spring.
TPM posted:The only time a coach must honor an athletic scholarship is to incoming players who signed an NLI.
Scholarships are renewed every year, usually by June, July. So its common that a coach may tell a player that he wont get much playing time, which means, you "should go look for another opportunity". That essentially frees up athletic dollars. Would you stay if someone said that to you?
Not sure how these guaranteed 4 year scholarships work, but I am assuming that is why not too many are awarded.
Recruiting is a skill, so is making the numbers work.
Hope that explains how it basically works.
Team mate of my son's signed LOI with power D1 Nov of Sr year. By early July of Sr year agreement broken by coach. Luckily, within days, kid was picked up by another D1, (not nearly as highly ranked), and still has somewhere to play. His LOI was basically meaningless. If he would have stayed, then he would have lost a year of eligibility. Kind of scary.
Talking to a coach at a school where they offer 4 years, he said upfront that the % would vary year to year, but would add up (average out, actually) to the total offered at the beginning. I thought this sounded odd but now it makes sense,
These threads make it sound like deciding to play in college vs the pros is a real roll of the dice, however I would imagine there are an equal amount of horror stories from pro ball too. Ultimately you have to produce when given opportunities or you will be shown the door.
3and2Fastball posted:These threads make it sound like deciding to play in college vs the pros is a real roll of the dice, however I would imagine there are an equal amount of horror stories from pro ball too. Ultimately you have to produce when given opportunities or you will be shown the door.
Not always true. My son had 3-0 record, 1 save as a true freshman. Every year a newer, shinier, kid shows up. In my sons case 5 new LHP's showed up. Of those 5, one was drafted, one flunked out, another was cut the following year and the other 2 have seen uneventful careers.
I get it, it's a business, just not fun when your on the wrong end.
Picked Off posted:Jim T. posted:TPM postedCoaches can ask players to restructure, but not take away scholarships, unless they have broken ncaa or team rules.
The Alabama coach was fired because he signed players knowing that he wouldnt have enough athletic $$$ for every player.
You probably would really have a hard time justifying to your boss about cutting scholarships under those circumstances, but you can release players to free up money or restructure.
What do you mean by "release players"? Are you saying a coach can cut a kid where the player would retain his scholarship money, not be on the roster and thereby freeing up the scholarship? Just wondering...
PO jr signed a NLI, along with a financial agreement that stated his scholarship money was for 4 years. I believe 2013 was the first year the financial part could be written as such. Freshman year was a success by all standards. Spring of Sophomore year he was told he would most likely be redshirted. No play time, no real explanation other than redshirt likely. Two weeks before the seasons end. He was called into HC office and told he likely wouldn't fit into next year or the future plans. They offered him a release so he could go play elsewhere. If he stayed, his money would still be available to him, but no team functions other then all the work with zero play time. Chart, field work, pick food & drink, basically the team lacky. They would abuse him enough so he would agree to the release so they would get his scholarship money back.
In the end, he choose to leave. Unfortunately, the NCAA allows coaches to break contracts, and the student athlete suffers. He held up his end of the agreement, but the coach did not. Even though he did not play his sophomore year, he would have to sit out another year if wanted to play at another DI school. He transferred to a DII school, was given another partial scholarship and has had a successful career with one more year of eligibility.
I believe things happen for a reason. We have met some amazing kids & families on this new journey. Remarkably, he holds no grudge against the other coach, but inside I know it crushed him. He has become a better person because of this experience.
I have to bit my tongue every time I hear someone is committing to this school.
It is a crappy reality of college sports. You wouldn't think so many colleges don't bother with player development. If a kid struggles, he's on his own. My son found the quality of instruction was better in the parks back home than with his college staff. Almost all of his friends agree with him. Lots of kids had similar discussions with their coach at the end of the season so your son was in good company.
One benefit to taking the money out of high school vs. going to college is the professional route is considered a sunk investment so they're not as reticent to give up quickly. Colleges will toss you aside in a NY minute.
Jim T. posted:Picked Off posted:Jim T. posted:TPM postedCoaches can ask players to restructure, but not take away scholarships, unless they have broken ncaa or team rules.
The Alabama coach was fired because he signed players knowing that he wouldnt have enough athletic $$$ for every player.
You probably would really have a hard time justifying to your boss about cutting scholarships under those circumstances, but you can release players to free up money or restructure.
What do you mean by "release players"? Are you saying a coach can cut a kid where the player would retain his scholarship money, not be on the roster and thereby freeing up the scholarship? Just wondering...
PO jr signed a NLI, along with a financial agreement that stated his scholarship money was for 4 years. I believe 2013 was the first year the financial part could be written as such. Freshman year was a success by all standards. Spring of Sophomore year he was told he would most likely be redshirted. No play time, no real explanation other than redshirt likely. Two weeks before the seasons end. He was called into HC office and told he likely wouldn't fit into next year or the future plans. They offered him a release so he could go play elsewhere. If he stayed, his money would still be available to him, but no team functions other then all the work with zero play time. Chart, field work, pick food & drink, basically the team lacky. They would abuse him enough so he would agree to the release so they would get his scholarship money back.
In the end, he choose to leave. Unfortunately, the NCAA allows coaches to break contracts, and the student athlete suffers. He held up his end of the agreement, but the coach did not. Even though he did not play his sophomore year, he would have to sit out another year if wanted to play at another DI school. He transferred to a DII school, was given another partial scholarship and has had a successful career with one more year of eligibility.
I believe things happen for a reason. We have met some amazing kids & families on this new journey. Remarkably, he holds no grudge against the other coach, but inside I know it crushed him. He has become a better person because of this experience.
I have to bit my tongue every time I hear someone is committing to this school.
It is a crappy reality of college sports. You wouldn't think so many colleges don't bother with player development. If a kid struggles, he's on his own. My son found the quality of instruction was better in the parks back home than with his college staff. Almost all of his friends agree with him. Lots of kids had similar discussions with their coach at the end of the season so your son was in good company.
One benefit to taking the money out of high school vs. going to college is the professional route is considered a sunk investment so they're not as reticent to give up quickly. Colleges will toss you aside in a NY minute.
Jim,
Some coaches are excellent at what they do, and do prepare the player for the long season and the next level because that's what they do, but their primary job is to win. Players receive instruction and the good coaches are always helping players to get better. In the top college programs, you will find better coaching than in some of the minor leagues. Also players have opportunities to explore options to make themselves better players. There are many guys out there that make no effort to work on their own and those things are noticed by the coaching staff. Try giving a player a plan to follow over Xmas and they come back not prepared. That happens.
Not every coach is a good teacher. And yes, there are many unqualified coaches at the college level. I would imagine that is why everyone wants to play for a school in a power 5 conference, but these programs are not for everyone and that is why you will find so many more from those type of programs released each year.
Why wouldn't you want a coach to release you if you are just going to sit on the bench year after year?
With that being said, ML teams offer instruction during instructional camps in the off season to minor league players. You are not required, as in college, to show up to the field early for coaching instruction, in season, unless it's offered. The best instruction is with the ML coaching staff, other than that, you are on your own. And trust me when I say, as long as they have enough guys to fill a roster and be back upsoon for injury, they don't really care about you.
