Specialized at only 9th grade?

Its going to vary from one coaches philosophy to another.  If you wanted my guess, the coach is letting the kid down easy.  Sounds like the kid is a PO or catcher and not good enough to make the team as a PO or catcher.  If he could play other positions then the coach may have found a place for him.  

Players are never defined into one position unless they are pitchers only. A change can come at any time. My son was the shortstop on the 7th grade team, the 8th grade team and JV freshman year. Halfway through freshman year the center fielder got injured. My son was shifted to center even though he was the heir apparent (according to coach's talk) to shortstop since 8th grade. Soph year he was the varsity shortstop. Junior year there was an adequate shortstop behind him and no one to play center. My son moved back to center.

 

When you look down at the previous level many of the kids were shortstops and center fielders. It's the way the funnel works. The best play in the middle of the field. At each level as the competition gets tougher the best players get dispersed around the field. 

 

Everyone in high school was a shortstop in preteen ball. Almost everyone in college played up the middle in high school.

 

 

Here's part of my answer to that question on the other board.

 

Kid is 6'1", 220 lbs. He's not going to play SS. Kid is 5'8", 130 lbs. He's not going to be playing 1st base. There are many reasons. It may not be that the kid couldn't play a particular position. It could be that the coach had 3 other kids that could play it better or were more suited to it.

 

There are many reasons why this could happen.  It could be what joes87 is saying as well.  Just because a kid CAN play multiple positions, doesn't mean he is the BEST at all of them.  If a kid is primarily a 1B and the team already has 3 Varsity and 3 JV firstbasemen that are junior and seniors, I would say that spot is full.  Maybe the kid can play outfield as well, but he runs a 8.0 60 and the other choices run a 7.1 60, he's not the best fit for that position.

 

The bottom line is, HS is when the funnel starts to get smaller.  The competition for a spot on the HS roster can get very competitive and getting any significant play time when you're on the roster can be extremely competitive.  

A 9^th grader is not and should not be defined into one position. My 2015 was a catcher in 9^th and 10^th, moved to 3^rd due to injury of starting 3^rd junior year and then this year, senior year,  will be used at 1^st and RF.  Why? That is where they need him.  As a 9^th grader working on getting bigger stronger faster should be their goal.  Finding “the position” will come as the player develops physically, defensively and with the bat.  There are many players at the college and professional level that were forced to change their positons or developed into another position.  My 2015 was D1 recruited for C  but was #3 C on a school’s list. He was offered by the D1 but will be used at either C, 1 & 3 depending on how he develops.

What you say is true, but it sounds like your son is a big kid.  Chances are he's not playing SS or 2B.  If a HS team is looking for middle infielders and the 9th grader is a huge kid, even though he can play SS or 2B, chance are they are not going to take him on the team since he doesn't fit the profile for that position.  There may be other kids who are more suited to it.  

 

Sometimes there are circumstances out of your control.  Has nothing to do with limiting yourself to one position.

Correct on the size 6’3” 215lb.  I do agree with you many other factors come into play!! Seen it many of time!!!   In high school not always the best kids play!        

I would think the more competitive the program the more locked in to positions a player will be expected.

 

In the above example the 9th grader didn't make his HS team which I'm assuming is the JV team but it could be the freshman team.  If it is the freshman team I think the coach was bringing the kid down easy because I would find it hard to believe that a freshman team would need position players.

 

 

Without really knowing anymore than the posts above, I would say guess the kid didn't hit very well.

 

 

Can he hit?  If he can hit, he can play a position. 

 

Happened to my kid a couple of times back in "kiddie" ball.  He could hit, but they had guys who could play his best positions.  Of course when he played those teams that year, he pounded the ball against them.   

 

 

 

       
       
haven't read all your responses yet...  but it seems like a typical case of a coach letting a kid down nicely.  If he really wanted him he would have selected him.  Just something to say to the kid.

CaCO3Girl,

 

I think it's more the case that players are defined out of positions rather than defined into positions.

 

At each rung of the ladder from Little League on up, the expectations for each position get more specific.

 

By the time a player reaches high school, it's often easy to decide quickly that particular players can't play shortstop, catcher, or centerfield.

 

It doesn't mean they've specialized, it means they're part of the great migrating herd that meanders from shortstop to the other defensive positions one after another until they reach the level where specialized or advanced skills or tools are needed almost everywhere and the last remnants of the herd are huddled in two clumps, one in left field and the other at first base.

 

When the coach told this ninth grader he doesn't play the positions the coach needs, he was thinning the herd to keep those who can hit.

bingo!

       
       
Lol.  Very well put... as my son clings to 1st base and LF on his way to PO land!

In 9th grade my 2017 catcher played...catcher. Every inning of every JV game behind the plate. He would have liked letting the backup catcher get some time and reps in blow-out games. He also would have liked to play in OF or even 1B as a change of pace.

 

As others have said, at 9th grade players generally get excluded from certain positions based on skillset, size, and athleticism. However, I'd say experienced catchers (unless the team has many to choose from; at our HS there are two total) and POs (those that cannot compete at other positions and that are no stud hitter) would be the exception. I'll add that at the HS level, if a kid can HIT, they will find a place for him somewhere, somehow...

If a player can hit THEY will be put on a team. 

 

Why are you shocked, seems to me that the coach was very nicely trying to tell the player that he just wasn't ready for the experience, at this time.

 

 

Saw plenty of kids that could field get cut this year.

 

Didn't see any kids that could hit get cut.  They're trying a kid at first who is big, can't run, can't throw - but he can hit. (well, fastballs at least).  The problem is that he can't catch either, which is probably a trait you would like your first baseman to have.

 

They're still trying to figure out to do with my son really.  He spent last year as a PO.  In the fall they gave him a couple of at bats and he knocked the crap out of the ball.  By the end of fall he was batting cleanup.

 

Now in the spring, they don't want him catching - which was his position before becoming a PO, because they want his arm on the mound.  He's really not a good infielder, so they have him working some in the OF.

 

Basically I guess I'm saying, hit the ball and they will find a place for you.

I was shocked because I though the coach was pigeon holing kids in 9th grade...i.e. you are a third basemen and ONLY a third basemen and I have 3 of those and you couldn't possible play first, or OF, because you are ONLY a third basemen.

 

I'm still waiting for my 7th grader to show a passion for one or two spots.  He is starting to have some passion for catching, but overall his attitude is any spot on the field, any time, and I'll show you a player happy to be there! 

 

I just didn't understand how things could change so much that this 9th grader was told by the coach that he really wanted him but he didn't play any of the positions that were open.  But perhaps, as others have said, it was a coach letting the kid down nicely....personally I would have preferred to hear you are a bit weak on blank and blank, work on those with your travel ball team and we will see you next year....but maybe that's just the northerner in me living in the south...I just want it straight.

+1  

I like this.

If you play high schoolbaseball where baseball is a dominant sport ( ie. FL, GA, TX, CA) it may be a numbers game. Sometimes at a large to medium size school there are 70-100 kids vying for 25 spots on a roster.  Unfortunately, there are players whom maybe skilled enough that do not make it.  These same players may be able to even start at the school across town.  Whether we agree or not, as it has been posted many times and at all levels…if you can hit they will play you.  

LOL!  Well said. And if you are in the last remnants of that herd playing left field and/or first base, you really need to be able to hit.

Hey wait a minute!  Some of us with lefties think first base should not just be a throw away position...A lefty can realistically play only 5 of the 9 positions, and I still believe has a natural advantage at 1st.  But yes, especially if he can hit. 

Again, that was the nice way of saying, work harder and get better. And maybe it was just that this player doesn't play enough positions or has the power to hit and you are hearing the player's or parent's version. 

 

Perhaps if there was a freshman team things may have been different.

 

 

I think with the increase in travel baseball and year round playing you are going to find this more and more.  Players are beginning to specialize much earlier and are training specifically for that earlier.  As a high school coach I find it disturbing that young people are specializing at all at such young ages.  Not to mention devoting themselves to just one sport.   

I've always encouraged my son to play other sports rather than "specialize" as I fully believe most of them can benefit a baseball player's skills.  And I sure he would have played a fall sport, like basketball, if it didn't overlap the start of baseball season.  He did that his freshman year and didn't like getting a late start for baseball (especially since he was competing for a varsity position) since he couldn't really do both at the same time.   One of the problems with prep-sports in many areas these days is that they overlap like that and so, like for my son, keep players from wanting to play a sport that might precede baseball season. 

This kind of summed up my thoughts on the matter as well.  I'm not sure where these body type per-conceptions have arisen but they are well and truly a part of baseball, even in 9th grade.  

 

Of course there are some advantages of having a lefty on first, but if it was THAT critical why aren't all 1B lefties?

 

Yes there are certain advantages to having a tall intimidating catcher, but Yogi Berra was 5'7, and Roy Campanella was 5'8 and they are considered among the best of the best.

 

I know even at age 12 I have heard things from my kids coach (remember we play on a TINY field) so and so can't play second they aren't quick enough...so and so can't play center he isn't fast enough...so and so can't play first they aren't tall enough....so and so can't pitch they aren't tall enough....so and so MUST play first because he is a lefty.....WHY?  At what point in time has a body type indicated you CANNOT play position X?

 

 

 

Well, some of those are valid issues.  You can't have a slow center fielder.  He can be tall or short - that doesn't matter, but he needs to be fast.  The same holds true for middle infield.  It's less an issue of size, and more one of speed.  Not necessarily just pure running speed - but quickness as well.

 

A tall first baseman is an advantage. Of course it's not the only factor - but a 6'5 guy can bail out his fielders on bad throws in ways a 5'10 guy can't. Being a lefty doesn't mean you have to play first - but it is a position that being left handed is an advantage.

 

All of this really comes into play as you get away from the smaller field.  Athletic lefties can often play other infield positions at young ages that just don't work out on the big field.

 

As the funnel narrows, you need to seek out even the most miniscule of physical advantages.  That's why you see players pigeonholed the way they are.  

And I get that for 11th and 12th grade, you know their speed, you know their body type, you know where the advantages are....but for 9th graders....or 7th graders that play on a 50x70 field with a 200 foot fence?  Seems a bit harsh to start pigeon holing kids at age 12. 

 

My grandmother has a saying "Often times people do extraordinary things because no one told them they couldn't." 

 

The next Yogi Berra might never get the chance to even play catcher because at 5'7 no coach will give him the chance behind the plate....just thinking out loud.

Caco, I guess here is what I don't get.  Why do people want to fight their body types so much?  Why not just embrace it and be the best YOU you can be?  My son is in 7th grade like yours.  He is 6'1" 180.  He absolutely loves to hit and he likes playing 1st base.  He has never played a game at SS or 2B.  Perhaps one or two times in tball I may have forgotten about.  He has never played a game in CF.  He has worked very hard to be a respectable 1st baseman but is by no means a gold glover.   It is entirely possible as he gets older he will be a PO with some DH duty.  And if he can't master the curveball perhaps just a PO.  This is who he is.  We embrace it.  The vast majority of time we spend is on his pitching.  That is where his future lies if he has one.  Would I love my kid to be the star shortstop making diving plays and turning DP's?  Of course but that's not the kid who came out of the womb.  If he gets to pitch in college someday and never gets a single collegiate at bat I will be head over heels happy for him.  This idea that all kids have to learn all positions is just plain wrong.  I never asked a coach to give my son a chance at shortstop.  It would be a mockery of the game he loves.  But then what kills me is the parent of the kid who can't break glass with his fastball seems to have no compunctions about begging for pitching time.  Ridiculous.  And no he is not a real pitcher cause his blooper ball got them out 1-2-3.  No more than my son would be a legit shortstop if he fielded three ground balls cleanly in a row.  There are ground balls hit to first as well by the way and he usually fields them.  That doesn't make him a shortstop.  For the sake of the team and most importantly themselves players need to embrace who AND what they are.

I guess my point is who says who and what they are...genetics....coach....stereo types?

 

My son is currently 12, 5'8, and 155#'s. 

12u positions: 1B, P, and C.

11u positions: 2B, 3B, P, C, SS

10u positions: RF, 3B, C

9u positions: 1B, 2B, C

 

How can we embrace who he is when each coach has a different plan for him?  The 9/10u coach didn't want him pitching at all.  Now he is arguably the #1 or 2 pitcher.  11u had him playing all over the infield, pretty much where ever the pitcher just got pulled from and when our SS got hurt my son played there...12u coach says you will never be a 2B so don't bother trying to play there in practice.

 

So...I say again, with utter confusion...how can I embrace who and what he is if he doesn't know and neither do his coaches?  The only thing I have figured out so far is every coach loves his hard strong accurate throws...but where he makes those throws from is anyone's guess.

 

A tall first baseman is an advantage. Of course it's not the only factor - but a 6'5 guy can bail out his fielders on bad throws in ways a 5'10 guy can't.

 

I don't expect many to agree with me, but I don't place as much stock in tall first baseman as most coaches do.  Just about everything that's difficult to handle at first base is down low--groundballs, and picks. As the level of play increases--quality HS ball and above-- there are a lot more bounced throws than overthrows.

 

If I've got a 6-5 first baseman and a 5-10 first baseman trying out, my initial thought is that the 6-5 guy has more to prove to me defensively.

 

 

 

 

I obviously have not seen your son.  But just given his size he is fairly tall but not too tall.  May very well be one of those guys who can in fact play a lot of different positions.  Nothing wrong with that.  Just most of us aren't that blessed.  And if you have had that many different coaches I take it you are switching teams - maybe going to better and better teams?  Of course that is going to change things as well.  The worst fielder on an elite team could probably be a shortstop in rec ball.  The better team he gets on the more his position will be defined.  But you can never go wrong working more on the pitching side of things.

I don't think anyone here has said that a 12 year old should be pigeon holed.  Not sure where you are coming up with that.  There is a big difference between a 12 yr. old on a 50/70 field with 200 foot fences and a 9th grade 14 or 15 year old playing 60-90 on 300+ foot fences.  When you play on the big field, the differences in body type and speed start mattering more.  

 

I know your son is 12 and it is hard to see into the future, but the full size field makes a BIG difference.  When you get to HS, things change because coaches are starting to try to fit a team together with the BEST options for each position and spot in the batting order.  He's not just trying to put 9 kids on a field, but the BEST 9 that will give him the BEST chance to win.  And sometimes a kid who might be pretty darned good on his travel team won't fit into what he is trying to do.

 

Imagine this.  Think of your son's team and the next 5 best teams in his age group.  Imagine if those 5 teams combined into one team.  Will there be some good kids left out?  Yep.  Will the coach want to put a really athletic left handed player at SS when he has a really athletic right hander there?  Nope.  He is going to look at all the kids who can hit the ball really well.  Then he is going to start fitting those hitters into the positions that they are best suited for.  Since the roster is limited, some kids that are good athletes and maybe can play a position better than some are left out just because there are better options.  Not because they are not good.

 

The coach of this new team will have 5 starting position players from each team to choose from.  Plus all the guys who don't start.  Let's say he chooses 2 1st basemen.  What do you do with the other 3?  They could play another position, but there are already 15 other outfielders to choose from.  And 5 other 3rd basemen to choose from and so forth.  If he makes the team over someone else, that someone else will not make the team.  

 

I don't know if this explains it better at all, but we're all trying.  When we say the funnel gets smaller as you get older and start playing school ball in particular, it is a fact.  Most of it is because of numbers.  There are simply WAY fewer HS teams than travel teams out there.  Some kids WILL be left out.  Take it one step further.  There are WAY, WAY fewer college teams than HS teams.  Many good HS players will get left out.  Either by choice or the funnel getting smaller.  Each level you go up, the fewer spots there are and the tougher the competition has become.  Body type is just part of the issue.  Putting together the best mix of players is also a big part.

It will become a lot clearer in a couple of years when your son is playing on the 60'-90' field. Generally speaking, there are kids who can play up the middle (SS, 2B, CF), kids who are "corners" (3B, 1B, LF, RF), and pitchers and catchers. The up the middle players can also be used in the corners if they can hit, but generally the corners can't be used up the middle. It sounds like your kid's current coach ("12u coach says you will never be a 2B so don't bother trying to play there in practice") doesn't think that your kid will be an up the middle player on the bigger field. Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of roster spots for pitchers, catchers, and corners.

       
       
I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you say.  But I do think it is a very real mistake to say the 6'5" kid has more to prove.  Not only is that borderline discrimination but its just counterintuitive.   But I get your point most bad throws are low.  The tall guy has a better chance of getting to those while they are still in the air.  If the shorter guy is just flat out better than of course he is better!  But one other thing to consider if you have a huge guy who can flat out hit where are you going to put him?  Unfortunately it is not always who is the better 1st baseman but where can we put the guy who mashes!  And by the way infielders, get your damn throws up when you have a 6'5" target.  No excuse for putting it in the dirt!!

You worry too much about what some youth coach thinks.  None of their opinions matter in the future. 

 

But these "stereotypes" are actually prototypes.  That is what has been found to work.  Do some break the mold?  Absolutely. 

LOL I can see why you think we are a team jumper but actually this is the first year we made a major move.  9/10 we had one coach, committed for 11u and the coach left for personal reasons and did not coach another team.  committed with the 11u coach for 12u, but he left the park to be an assistant coach and took us with him...lol, it may look bad on paper but really we don't jump teams, and this is the highest caliber team we have been on with by far the most knowledgeable coach...maybe my kid's body type now precludes him from specific positions, I don't know, it all seems random with what ever coach you have at the time to me.

I was talking to one of the HS coaches to better understand their approach and for right or wrong this was how they looked at hierarchy of selection.

1. Players they have known over a period of time (previous starters or travel players) and had seen in game situations against competition similar or better than their team. This also includes referrals from coaches they trust.(Usually 7 slots but for our varsity this year 14 slots with an outstanding junior class filling 9)

2. Pitchers that demonstrated velocity with a big plus for control (Usually 4 slots)

3. Specialty skill needs (Catcher,SS,CF) (Usually 4 slots)

4. Athletic ability and versatility with defensive baseball skills (Speed, Size, Arm strength, Glove control) (Usually 6 slots) 

5. Swing mechanics (most of their tryouts are indoors in a cage so it is very difficult to judge more) (Assuming these players did not meet other higher criteria they are likely large in size and slated for DH,1st or third) (2 slots)

6. Single dimension players based on need.  These are players who may be good ball players but are not perceived by the coach as athletes or possessing any unique skill to meet needs. This can mean slower foot speed, lack of physical maturity, weak arm, inexperience with BBCOR weight bats or HS level pitching (2 slots)

 

I am not contending that this is the right approach or that it is correct but coaches usually have far more players than slots (Our school has 71 signed up for 30 JV and Varsity slots) you can understand that down selecting has to be performed. Coaches do not get it 100% correct and there are young men who make the team that probably shouldn't and young men who are cut that the coach wishes they had a do-over on. My thought is that the higher you can be on this type of hierarchy the greater the opportunity to get an opportunity...  

Our varsity 1st baseman is a 6'5 lefty who mashes, and scoops everything in sight.

 

My son says it's nice to know he just has to throw the ball somewhat in the vicinity of 1st base.

 

With that said, even though he can handle anything thrown or hit at him and has very quick reflexes - he probably wouldn't make a great SS.