The University of Maine has recently released a report, which will serve as the National Model, about what constitutes healthful and rewarding interscholastic sports programs.
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I haven't read all of it and most of the elements of the core principles are great, such as health & fitness, Leadership, Quality of coaching, Learning, Sportsmanship, etc., but one of the principles and objectives jumped out at me. Though it is indirectly stated, it was the desire to eliminate competitiveness.
Going to be hard on the coaching staff to get much done with 450-500 kids on the HS football team. They will have to expand the dugouts to hold the baseball teams or just use the stands area as the bench.
I'm sorry, but these "non-competitive, it hurts little Johnny/Suzie" Academically oriented pieces of fluff, grate on me. Nothing is wrong with competition and drive.
Sorry Chill, I don't consider all of the Maine report as meaningful or useful. The premise is flawed. Here is another section from the report which attempts to eliminate competitiveness. Why is it Ok to have academic competitions, also known as grades and academic scholarships, but not have athletic competitions? Read this quote. I bolded the part I disagree with.
Why keep score? Why bother to have sports? Do away with Grades, the SAT's and, while you are at it, college tuition too.
I'm sure it well meaning and has great stuff in the other parts but this one premise eliminates it's usefulness.
quote:
Opportunity to Play – Each student who meets the eligibility standards has the opportunity to participate and learn through sport.
Going to be hard on the coaching staff to get much done with 450-500 kids on the HS football team. They will have to expand the dugouts to hold the baseball teams or just use the stands area as the bench.
I'm sorry, but these "non-competitive, it hurts little Johnny/Suzie" Academically oriented pieces of fluff, grate on me. Nothing is wrong with competition and drive.
Sorry Chill, I don't consider all of the Maine report as meaningful or useful. The premise is flawed. Here is another section from the report which attempts to eliminate competitiveness. Why is it Ok to have academic competitions, also known as grades and academic scholarships, but not have athletic competitions? Read this quote. I bolded the part I disagree with.
quote:
.... called for stronger communication between athletes, coaches and parents, positive sports learning environments, more fun in sports, winning kept in perspective and consistent, fair treatment of athletes of all abilities. Students also identified practices detrimental to healthy sports experiences such as negative comments and behavior by parents and fans, win-at-all-costs attitudes and coaches favoring the best players.
Why keep score? Why bother to have sports? Do away with Grades, the SAT's and, while you are at it, college tuition too.
I'm sure it well meaning and has great stuff in the other parts but this one premise eliminates it's usefulness.
HHH
You dont have to apologize to me for your opinion.
I am reporting on the report...I did not write it!!
Although,
I have said...Write it Down... a few times...LOL
I have stood up in my community for years suggesting the "everyone" plays is not the way to go in high school and beyond. The families with kids who do not put in the time and have always played for their dads do not like what I have to say. Unbelieveable to me that daddy ball is alive and well to this day in High School.
You dont have to apologize to me for your opinion.
I am reporting on the report...I did not write it!!
Although,
I have said...Write it Down... a few times...LOLI have stood up in my community for years suggesting the "everyone" plays is not the way to go in high school and beyond. The families with kids who do not put in the time and have always played for their dads do not like what I have to say. Unbelieveable to me that daddy ball is alive and well to this day in High School.
OBTW Chill
It's sure nice to see you back in here... You must have been kinda busy.
I can see this flying down in Texas ... yeah, you have a potential All-American QB down there, but he's only going to get to start 1 game this year.... Billy and Johnny and a host of other QB's also came out for the team. All of the 6A High Schools in Texas end up with identical 0-0 records because you must not keep score ... it hinder Sallys and Bobbys development.
I feel sorry for those kids when they hit the real world and find out it's not the gentle wonderful place that they were trained for ... that the real world is about competition in all aspects of life.
It's sure nice to see you back in here... You must have been kinda busy.
I can see this flying down in Texas ... yeah, you have a potential All-American QB down there, but he's only going to get to start 1 game this year.... Billy and Johnny and a host of other QB's also came out for the team. All of the 6A High Schools in Texas end up with identical 0-0 records because you must not keep score ... it hinder Sallys and Bobbys development.
I feel sorry for those kids when they hit the real world and find out it's not the gentle wonderful place that they were trained for ... that the real world is about competition in all aspects of life.
I just don't understand why so many have a problem with the concept of Sports Performance as a bona fide major. We have Music Students, Med Students, Law Students -- What's wrong with somebody being an Athletic-Student, as opposed to a Student-Athlete?
Coaches tend to favor the best players. That's what any program does. The department chair / professor / coach works the group of aspiring professionals with the goal of developing skill and confidence so that a few will become big deals in their chosen fields, whether it's art, sports, business, teaching , whatever. Intramurals and Clubs were created for those who not aspire to become professional.
Can we expect Julliard to produce a simlar tome regarding a fun, healthful and rewarding music program?
Coaches tend to favor the best players. That's what any program does. The department chair / professor / coach works the group of aspiring professionals with the goal of developing skill and confidence so that a few will become big deals in their chosen fields, whether it's art, sports, business, teaching , whatever. Intramurals and Clubs were created for those who not aspire to become professional.
Can we expect Julliard to produce a simlar tome regarding a fun, healthful and rewarding music program?
quote:Originally posted by PioneerDad:
Can we expect Julliard to produce a simlar tome regarding a fun, healthful and rewarding music program?
Yes, you may .... but you must be tone deaf in order to enjoy the concerts.
Isn't Political Correctness fun. Isn't this a great use of our tax dollars. Yes folks, this was FEDERALLY FUNDED ... how do you guys in TEXAS feel now !!!!!! No more "Friday Night Lights", maybe some "Friday Night Flashlights".
Trust me ---you won't find it at Juilliard--- there it is competition worse than any sport---attending there is not for the "faint of heart"
quote:Originally posted by HiHardHeat:
OBTW Chill
It's sure nice to see you back in here... You must have been kinda busy.
Now I know why those who have such good things to say don't post too often anymore.
Chill was only posting some information for us to read for discussion.
I have also wondered the same thing as Pioneer Dad lately:
"I just don't understand why so many have a problem with the concept of Sports Performance as a bona fide major. We have Music Students..." etc.
My two sons have very different passions - for the 04 it's playing baseball, and for the 06 it's music performance. My 06, though only a junior in HS, has already chosen his college for a music performance major, and the curriculum for freshman year includes only one non-music class per semester, and guitar majors bring their guitars to almost every class! It does make me wonder why music performance is considered a real major, but a sports performance major does not exist. Oh, well, who knows if either one of them will be employable in their fields after college!
"I just don't understand why so many have a problem with the concept of Sports Performance as a bona fide major. We have Music Students..." etc.
My two sons have very different passions - for the 04 it's playing baseball, and for the 06 it's music performance. My 06, though only a junior in HS, has already chosen his college for a music performance major, and the curriculum for freshman year includes only one non-music class per semester, and guitar majors bring their guitars to almost every class! It does make me wonder why music performance is considered a real major, but a sports performance major does not exist. Oh, well, who knows if either one of them will be employable in their fields after college!
Blowing out your knee carrying your Cello back/forth to class isn't necessarily a career ending injury for a music major.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Musical Performance major ... it's like taking Acting classes ... that's fine.
A Sports Performance is different. Blowing out that same knee could invalidate your entire college education before it ever finished. I'm not in favor of that one... I'll stick to Student-Athletes with the emphasis on Student.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a Musical Performance major ... it's like taking Acting classes ... that's fine.
A Sports Performance is different. Blowing out that same knee could invalidate your entire college education before it ever finished. I'm not in favor of that one... I'll stick to Student-Athletes with the emphasis on Student.
Here is an article written by Gary Thorne on the report:
All schools need to read UM report
Friday, January 14, 2005 - Bangor Daily News
Of the 983,600 high school students who play football in this country, 5.8 percent or 57,000 will go on to play in college. Two percent of that college group, about 1,140, will move to the pros, few of them to be stars. That means of all those high school players, according to the report, only 0.09 percent will someday make it to the pros, and that does not mean stardom or long-term deals. This is called reality.
That 0.09 percent is the third-highest figure, yes, the third-highest, of high school students who will make it to the pros of all the major sports: behind baseball and men's hockey but ahead of basketball and s****r.
These figures and what they mean for high school and middle-school sports comes in a just-released report called "Sports Done Right" from the University of Maine Sport and Coaching Initiative.
The easy-to-read, jammed-with-substance 47-page report should be in the hands of every coach, teacher, administrator and parent, not just in Maine, but nationally.
Dean Robert Cobb of the College of Education at the university has been a leader is this field for years. This study adds to a growing body of work on youth and college sports to come from the university under Cobb's guidance.
This is not a work of paper. This is a work of "how to" at the point of impact - in the schools and communities.
The report defines core principles and practices for high school sports and when actions are "out of bounds."
There are sample "compacts" that can be entered into between student-athletes and coaches, parents and communities.
"At their best," says the report, "school sports provide an opportunity to teach good sportsmanship and other values. ... Sports Done Right creates an environment in which to instill core values such as discipline, respect, responsibility, fairness, trustworthiness and good citizenship."
Make no mistake, the battle to maintain the integrity of high school sports, to allow the games to be a part of the educational system, are under attack from the narcissistic parents and coaches who preach win at all costs while loudly and belligerently pushing their kids on to be pros.
One senses that good people have been intimidated and too often silenced by these obstreperous people who imitate the worst of sports we too often see on television.
"Sports Done Right" is a thoughtful, direct and applicable response for those who care about the children. There is no backing down in this study, just as there should be no backing down from ensuring high school sports maintains that important, but balanced place in the educational system.
High schools and middle schools in Maine have been sent copies of the report. Highlights and order forms can be found at www.mcce.umaine.edu. It is worth the read.
Old Town native Gary Thorne is an ESPN and ABC sportscaster.
All schools need to read UM report
Friday, January 14, 2005 - Bangor Daily News
Of the 983,600 high school students who play football in this country, 5.8 percent or 57,000 will go on to play in college. Two percent of that college group, about 1,140, will move to the pros, few of them to be stars. That means of all those high school players, according to the report, only 0.09 percent will someday make it to the pros, and that does not mean stardom or long-term deals. This is called reality.
That 0.09 percent is the third-highest figure, yes, the third-highest, of high school students who will make it to the pros of all the major sports: behind baseball and men's hockey but ahead of basketball and s****r.
These figures and what they mean for high school and middle-school sports comes in a just-released report called "Sports Done Right" from the University of Maine Sport and Coaching Initiative.
The easy-to-read, jammed-with-substance 47-page report should be in the hands of every coach, teacher, administrator and parent, not just in Maine, but nationally.
Dean Robert Cobb of the College of Education at the university has been a leader is this field for years. This study adds to a growing body of work on youth and college sports to come from the university under Cobb's guidance.
This is not a work of paper. This is a work of "how to" at the point of impact - in the schools and communities.
The report defines core principles and practices for high school sports and when actions are "out of bounds."
There are sample "compacts" that can be entered into between student-athletes and coaches, parents and communities.
"At their best," says the report, "school sports provide an opportunity to teach good sportsmanship and other values. ... Sports Done Right creates an environment in which to instill core values such as discipline, respect, responsibility, fairness, trustworthiness and good citizenship."
Make no mistake, the battle to maintain the integrity of high school sports, to allow the games to be a part of the educational system, are under attack from the narcissistic parents and coaches who preach win at all costs while loudly and belligerently pushing their kids on to be pros.
One senses that good people have been intimidated and too often silenced by these obstreperous people who imitate the worst of sports we too often see on television.
"Sports Done Right" is a thoughtful, direct and applicable response for those who care about the children. There is no backing down in this study, just as there should be no backing down from ensuring high school sports maintains that important, but balanced place in the educational system.
High schools and middle schools in Maine have been sent copies of the report. Highlights and order forms can be found at www.mcce.umaine.edu. It is worth the read.
Old Town native Gary Thorne is an ESPN and ABC sportscaster.
Maine...I didn't even know anyone lived there.
Is the part about the narcissistic parents and coaches in the original report or is that someones interpretation.?
I would say this report REINFORCES the need for competition NOT the need to eliminate it. After all look how few will go on to be professionals, the same is true of the band members - very few of them will go on to be professional musicians - and very kids in Spanish will go on to become professional linguists.
There was a very interesting article recently in the U.S. Today about kids entering the workforce totally ill prepared. They are now facing competition and negative reinforcement for the first time in their lives in the workforce - and are altogether unprepared to handle it.
Isn't that what we sould be preparing our kids for and not simply trying to make school a fun experience?
I would say this report REINFORCES the need for competition NOT the need to eliminate it. After all look how few will go on to be professionals, the same is true of the band members - very few of them will go on to be professional musicians - and very kids in Spanish will go on to become professional linguists.
There was a very interesting article recently in the U.S. Today about kids entering the workforce totally ill prepared. They are now facing competition and negative reinforcement for the first time in their lives in the workforce - and are altogether unprepared to handle it.
Isn't that what we sould be preparing our kids for and not simply trying to make school a fun experience?
quote:Sports Done Right creates an environment in which to instill core values such as discipline, respect, responsibility, fairness, trustworthiness and good citizenship
When will they write "Politics Done Right" for all the high school debate clubs and Poli Sci majors?
Gees, John....
The #5 pick in the 2004 draft was a boy from Maine...go figure!
Named the top pitching prospect in the Arizona League by BA.......
Some Maine boys can suprise you
The #5 pick in the 2004 draft was a boy from Maine...go figure!
Named the top pitching prospect in the Arizona League by BA.......
Some Maine boys can suprise you
It is possible to have fun and become prepared as well--- but we need to stop being "soft" with them
The big problem all across the country in my mind is this:
01-- one parent situations
02-- both parents working and having little time to do proper parenting
03-- parents wanting teachers to do the parents job and when they hear discipline situations they get over all over the teachers because they send home a bad report--you cannot have it both ways
The big problem all across the country in my mind is this:
01-- one parent situations
02-- both parents working and having little time to do proper parenting
03-- parents wanting teachers to do the parents job and when they hear discipline situations they get over all over the teachers because they send home a bad report--you cannot have it both ways
CHILL
John can't pick on the IVIES now so he has selected the State of MAine to get on---go figure--just have to love John
Perhaps when he gets up this way for a Princeton road game I can take him for a Maine Lobster Dinner--- care to join us ???
I will check the Princeton schedule and get back to you
John can't pick on the IVIES now so he has selected the State of MAine to get on---go figure--just have to love John
Perhaps when he gets up this way for a Princeton road game I can take him for a Maine Lobster Dinner--- care to join us ???
I will check the Princeton schedule and get back to you
I think since Ryan's coach played with my brother in the Yankee ML's I would love to....
You do have to appreciate Beenthere's
perspective.....however slanted it may be for the Dad of an IVY leaguer?????....
You do have to appreciate Beenthere's
perspective.....however slanted it may be for the Dad of an IVY leaguer?????....
Actually Maine is a very beautiful state. I lived there twice. Once for a few years when I was in Kindergarten and again for just a few months when I was a Jr. in high school.
The fresh seafood can't be beat.
The fresh seafood can't be beat.
Don't know about the rest of you, but my son is very competitive and loves the competition. Did the "expert" ever talk to the kids.
My daughter is a gymnast - she is almost 12 and already too old - but loves what she does and I see her confidence level go up every time she sticks a move. If someone told her she did good and she knew she didn't she would be mad times 10.
The kids know when they do it right or wrong, who is better and who is not.
I tried guitar and I knew very quickly it was not my thing - and that was not BAD!!!
My daughter is a gymnast - she is almost 12 and already too old - but loves what she does and I see her confidence level go up every time she sticks a move. If someone told her she did good and she knew she didn't she would be mad times 10.
The kids know when they do it right or wrong, who is better and who is not.
I tried guitar and I knew very quickly it was not my thing - and that was not BAD!!!
catcher09 is formerly dave17
You can see who the players are at a young age. Locally, we were forced to make a split between the more developed players and the recreational players in baseball starting about the age of 11.
We divided our rec ball league into a National League and an American League. The purpose wasn't to have the best playing against the best. The primary purpose was to have the hard throwers (but not always accurate) and the hard hitters not playing against youngen's who didn't have the skill set to keep from being injured as the speed of the game increased.
We still have divided rec baseball through the age of 16 for the less skilled players so they can start and compete on an even level. It's a much better formula than the Maine method. It's like creating "club level" teams.
If Maine wants to create "Club teams" in all of their sports in addition to the "School team" during the High School age, then I am all for it, but the division needs to be made. This same speed/power argument and the need to separate the accomplished player from the marginal athlete would exist in most sports.
Club sports exist in college ... extend that notion down, but don't eliminate competitive high school sports by diluting to the point of elimination.
We divided our rec ball league into a National League and an American League. The purpose wasn't to have the best playing against the best. The primary purpose was to have the hard throwers (but not always accurate) and the hard hitters not playing against youngen's who didn't have the skill set to keep from being injured as the speed of the game increased.
We still have divided rec baseball through the age of 16 for the less skilled players so they can start and compete on an even level. It's a much better formula than the Maine method. It's like creating "club level" teams.
If Maine wants to create "Club teams" in all of their sports in addition to the "School team" during the High School age, then I am all for it, but the division needs to be made. This same speed/power argument and the need to separate the accomplished player from the marginal athlete would exist in most sports.
Club sports exist in college ... extend that notion down, but don't eliminate competitive high school sports by diluting to the point of elimination.