Sports Locker-rooms (e.g., Miami Dolphins)

I'm still trying to understand how a 300+lb lineman can be bullied. 

I agree.  At some point you need to stand up for yourself.  These are grown men who should be able to deal with these issues themselves.  May be politically incorrect, but I just don't get it.  Defenseless kids, yeah.  Grown men?  Hard to understand.

At first I thought the same bballman, but as I think about it more, and more info comes out, I there is a limit.  Standard pranks, rookies carry the vets bags and clean up after practice,,,sure...some of the things that Incognito said on voice mail and text...they were out of line.  The Dolphins knew that this guy was "socially awkward" when they drafted him and knew that there were/may be some issues.   Even grown men, and yes even those that are 300lb plus, can be subject to mental ridicule as well as physical.  They showed a video of a "hazing" yesterday where a player was bound with tape, tied to the goal post and then had just about anything they could find thrown on him, then basically water boarded with gatorade.....is that really hazing, or just a bunch of players with a thug-like mentality, which runs rampant in the NFL, acting like morons.   Is that really a good example for kids?

 

Not hard at all.  Some people just don't have the ability to fight back.  It isn't in their nature.  Also, keep in mind that one lax moment and one of the other bullies could dive into his knees and end his career.  Also, he wasn't the only person threatened.  His family was also threatened.  Keep in mind that this is also mental torment over an extended period of time. 

An NFL locker room is a work place just like an office, production area, locker room in a police of fire department.

In my view, this does not seem like the type of conduct anyone, regardless of size, should  expect or  be told to accept and tolerate in a work place:

 

""Hey, wassup, you half n----- piece of s---. I saw you on Twitter, you been training 10 weeks. [I want to] s--- in your f---ing mouth. [I'm going to] slap your f---ing mouth. [I'm going to] slap your real mother across the face [laughter]. F--- you, you're still a rookie. I'll kill you."

 

Seems to me there is much more than bullying in that quote posted on ESPN and other sites.  I would hope no employer including the NFL and the Dolphins  tolerate this type of interaction of among employees.   "...you half n----- piece of s---" is okay to say to an African-American co-employee, so long as they are big?

 

 

The mission statement of the Miami Dolphins is not to provide a locker and training facility so a very small group of people can partake in any activity they please, as long as their lips stay sealed.  The Miami Dolphins exist to win games, to draw fans to the stadium &TV-sets, and excite a fan base into buying merchandise.  Players are the primary facilitators that goal, but they are not the drivers of the bus.  If you were in the management of the Miami Dolphins and it came to light that actions of one your employees was having a detrimental impact on the performance of one or more other employees, aren’t you obligated to take action?

As far as the guy fighting back?  It's a catch-22, slippery slope, whatever.

 

Ritchie picks on this guy so bad, let's say he has enough and fights back, breaks Ritchie's jaw, knocks out some teeth, or takes out his knee on the practice field.  All of the sudden, he is the bad guy.

 

Ritchie picks on this guy so bad, he does nothing.  Now he is labeled as soft.  Maybe, he just got tired of dealing with it, and as an adult, he realized he didn't need to take it anymore and walked away.  I can't say that I blame him.

 

Ritchie is a bad egg.  We couldnt get rid of him fast enough in St Louis.

I think there is something there about the bad egg theory.  Apparently, Incognito's problems go way back.  Here is a clip from Wikipedia regarding the troubles he had in college:

In 2001, he redshirted at Nebraska.^[4] In 2002, he became the first Husker freshman offensive lineman to start in the season opener and just the third rookie lineman to earn any start in his first year of competition. He played in all 14 games, starting 13 at left tackle and posted the second-highest season pancake total in Husker history with 171.^[5] He was named a First-team Freshman All-American by FWAA, The Sporting News, and Rivals.com as well as First-Team Freshman All-Big 12 (The Sporting News). He had his first disciplinary action, however, when he was ejected for fighting from the Huskers' game against Penn State and forced to sit out the first half of the Iowa State game the next week.^[6]

In the spring of 2003, he was suspended for unspecified reasons by head coach Frank Solich. He was reinstated by the start of the season and started 13 games at left tackle, for which he was rewarded with a First-team All-Big 12 selection by the Associated Press.^[6]

In February 2004, Incognito was involved in a fight at a party and was charged with three counts of assault. In June, he was found guilty on one of the misdemeanor assault charges and paid a $500 fine. Incognito was shifted to center during the 2004 preseason camp. He entered the season with high expectations, listed on a number of preseason lists as a top center and named to the watch list for the Rimington Trophy going to the best center in college football.^[7] On September 1, however, he was suspended from the football team for repeated violations of team rules and withdrew from all classes at Nebraska within a few weeks.^[8]

In late September, he transferred to the University of Oregon, only to be dismissed from the team a week later. Head coach Mike Bellotti said Incognito failed to meet the conditions he'd agreed to meet before his arrival in Eugene. Bellotti didn't elaborate, but Incognito had been required to complete an anger-management course and adhere to a strict code of conduct.

I think it is a lack of player leadership.  Where are the veterans stepping in and putting the guy in his place.  It's one thing to prank each other, make the rookies go out and pick up dinner, etc.  It is another to threaten, harass and physically assault.  The team leaders needed to step up and kick butt.     

I agree with this.  If it is as bad as is being reported - and who knows how bad (or not bad) it really is - you would think someone would have stepped up before now.

 

I understand Incognito is not a good person and has had issues and is probably a total a**hole, but I still think grown men would be able to take care of this themselves. 

 

The NFL locker room is the same as a regular office - in some respects.  But MUCH different in many other respects.  In how many offices would bosses be able to yell and scream at employees and push them physically and mentally beyond their bounds?  I think it is a different world than most of us live in.  I do not think in any way what Incognito did was acceptable and I would never bring my kids up to be that way.  I just think it should be handled by the players themselves.  That includes Jonathan Martin as well as the other players on the team.  It shouldn't be a public thing.

Lets not blame the victim.
This Ritchie guy has issues. Imo he will go to rehab soon citing bipolar or steroid use as excuse for behavior. This guy has been out of control for yrs and he got a pass because hes good on a football field. More fallout to come imo esp if coaches knew of issues and did nothing.

No doubt there will be a BIG fallout from this.

Living in Dolphin territory and as a fan I am disgusted. I am disgusted that management keeps hiring these bad eggs. 

HC claims he had no idea, this is always the same story. IMO they need to get rid of him and the guy (Ireland) who keeps hiring these thugs.

However, this morning they were mentioning that players may have been afraid to speak up. There is so much more being speculated than what you hear on ESPN.

 

You can't win games with this sort of mentality.  Not sure when the owner will ever get that.

Incognito was on the player leadership council (or whatever they called it).

One of the HC's jobs is managing player performance/behavior.  In a well run business the coaching staff would be out looking for jobs, too.

My question is does this type of activity run rampant in the NFL's other locker rooms?  Incognito is surely not the only jerk in the NFL.  

My guess is it does to some degree.  I would think Incognito is at the far end of the spectrum, but most teams take care of this kind of thing internally.  I think Martin needed to "man up" a little more and the rest of the team should not have put up with this ridiculous and reprehensible behavior. 

I think this or something similar happens in most locker rooms. Everybody remember Ryan Leaf, He claimed something similar to him was happening in the San Diego Locker Room. 

I think you are correct, and I don't believe for a second that the other players/coaches didn't know some of the things that were going on.

There's a lot of rookie abuse in the NFL. But racism and threats of physical harm go beyond hazing. Plus this guy wasn't forced to pick up a huge bill for dinner. Players took his credit card and went to Vegas on him without him. Thats theft. It looks like there are grounds for criminal charges. But I'm guessing this will be handled the team to avoid an implosion. And some desperate team will sign Incognito next year because he can play. 

Hazing is stupid and juvenile at all levels. All this rite of passage is nonsense to join a club or a team and cannot be justified.. What this guy Incognito did was bordering on criminal. And the stuff coming out about this guy shows what an asshat this guy is.

Why should Martin have  to pick up a tab while being a rookie or second year player or whatever he is and who is Incognito or anybody in their right mind to demand somebody pay their food and bar tab for thousands of dollars. If it were me, I'd tell them all to pound salt.

 

I get that this is a grown man and should've stopped this guy in his tracks but this stuff has no business going on and the head coach needs to be fired immediately since this went on under his watch.

 

I don't get this hazing stuff. What benefit does hazing bring to the table to make a better business? If I were an owner and I asked this to my head coach or any of my other football executives and they couldn't give me an answer, then they'd all be gone right then and there. 

       
       

That's all I was trying to say about the whole thing. It's wrong what happened - no doubt. But  Martin and his teammates should have stopped it.

I don't think either Incognito or Martin will ever play again. No one will take a chance on Incognito and Martin will wind up filing a lawsuit. Part of Martin's problem will be that he violated the locker room code - right or wrong - and won't be trusted. This will wind up costing the Dolphins millions, and neither of these guys will play again. Just my guess.

Many of the radio guys down here played for Miami.  They are appalled by what is happening.  In the discussion is the issue of making rookies pay for what the guys making bigger bucks won't.

 

The QB is supposed to be one of the clubhouse leaders, which was stated often by some players but the press (as far as I know), they haven't approached him with questions,  I think that they are afraid to.

Unfortunately, I don't think that this is exclusive to the Dolphins.  Pretty sure that this might open a can of worms. 

It's like the steroid problem in baseball, no one really talks about it, but this may bring out a whole bunch of stuff going on.

 

I don't think that Martin wanted to break the code but others close to him have made him speak up.  I think he knew once he left he would never play again.

This is bullying at the adult level, it's really sickening.

I agree about the QB taking a huge hit here for his lack of leadership. He needed to step up and failed miserably. How can anyone trust or play for him too,

 

The most amazing thing is how this guy Incognito made it to the pros while having these issues at the lower level. Before this incident, I never heard of this guy so I don't know how good he can be to get where he got but obviously he must be good enough that people turned a blind eye along the way with this guy.

People knew about him and his problems.  Many NFL teams had him labeled "DND"....do not draft.  This is why.  The question is why an organization turned a blind eye to a guy like this.

The QB isn't going to be a leader in this situation. He was a rookie last year. He's still earning the confidence of his teammates. Another rookie stepped forward anonymously that he's financially broke from veteran players forcing him to buy them things. The writer said many Dolphin players are caught up in the Miami lifestyle and making young players pay for it. This story will probably blow wide open.

Why did the Dolphins turn a blind eye? The level of desperation to protect their QBs and Incognito's ability to do the job. Talent will get any thug a job somewhere. Remember Lawrence Philips?

http://elitedaily.com/news/wor...football-team-video/

 

 

Well I think it's time for an example of how things should be done the right way.  Somehow watching the last kid have his "aha" moment at the end of the interview made me realize peeling onions while watching this isn't a very cool or manly thing.

coach...

Nothing close to the same situation, RJM.  I for one would hope most college coaches wouldn't toss a teenage player to the curb after having a first problem.  Incognito has a 10+ year track record of these same sort of problems, which got him kicked off Nebraska's team.  How do you look the other way, as the Miami coaching staff and front office did, when you have a player that has a 10 year track record of problems like this. People blaming Martin, given Incognito's involvement, is really sad.

Strong, cohesive teams are built on a foundation of inclusion. An extreme form of exclusion, bullying, has no place whatsoever in a clubhouse.

 

As others here have suggested, this is a failure of leadership. Every member of a team has a responsibility to lead; but, some have more responsibility than others.

 

The veterans and coaches in this case have to be asking themselves where they were in all of this and what they can do in the future to avoid its recurrence...wherever they might be.

Fair point. It took Eli Manning to win a Super Bowl to get command in the locker room. So maybe the QB not quite in a position yet to throw his weight around.

As for who runs the locker room let me let you guys in on a secret - the O Line and D Line run the show in most teams.  The star players are the face / vocal ones who are seen by the media but behind the scenes it's the big uglies who run the show.  Yeah you get a Peyton Manning, Drew Brees or going back in the day to John Elway who through production / fighting through injury that will garner that respect but typically it's the big uglies who take charge.

 

Which is one reason why stuff like this happens (among many others) and when you get a bad apple like Incognito it can go horribly wrong.  

Tom Brady was asked yesterday about the Patriots. He said they need togetherness and respect in the locker room to have it on the field. He said rookies carry veteran's pads in the preseason and get nailed collectively (rookies chip in) for one team meal at the end of the season. 

Our high school had a lineman who was a bully. My son ignored him in gym class for two years. The kid bullied my son for being a wuss baseball and soccer player. Then one day he had enough and beat the crap out of him. The bully went whining to the gym teacher. The gym teacher told the kid he saw nothing. No one in the class saw anything either. Then the gym teacher told my son never do it again.

Your son's gym teacher should be fired for not handling the issue before it got to that stage, and I say that as someone who has a couple of friends who are PE teacher's/coaches who would absolutely have handled it before it came to a physical confrontation between students.

Never mind.  Apparently it was a "code red" which changes everything. 

I don't think duking it out with someone is the way to go even though it is one time-honored way to handle a bully.  People can die from one single punch being thrown and I am not sure it is worth going to prison over to prove a point to a bully.

 

A few years ago, two players got into fisticuffs on the Charleston Southern Baseball team.  One single punch landed and knocked a kid out.  On the way to the ground, the kid's head hit the curb and he died.  The other kid who threw the punch is now in prison.  I don't think fighting is the way to handle things because too much can go wrong.

I saw an article about the ongoing lack of leadership being a problem for several seasons with the Dolphins. It said Cameron Wake, one of the senior players is too laid back. Yesterday Wake commented he wasn't aware there was a problem in the locker room. Several other Dolphins expressed the same. Incognito was on the team's six man leadership council. He was chosen by Dolphin management to do the pregame "behave and enjoy the game" PSA played before every game. This is a clueless organization.