Starting Out - Advice from those that have been there

go3,

After reading your post, my first thought was for him to find a high level travel team to get more exposure in the coming years. There are plenty of excellent travel teams in your area that go to tournaments and showcase with college coaches and scouts. He has talent and desire. He just needs some exposure for others to see what he can do. A good travel coach will help develop him on the field, and help him with recruitment to the next level.

High school and legion is fine in terms of honing skills and getting repetitions, but it will not give him the exposure he needs to move into D1 baseball and professional baseball. If he wants to stay a MIF, he needs to really work on his 60 yard dash time (under 7.0) and obviously his glove and throwing skills.

I'm glad to see he is a very good student and he is taking a challenging work load. That may open some doors as well. Congrats on raising a well balanced young man, and good luck. I'm sure others (wiser than I) will comment and help you with questions.

Welcome go3!

fenwaysouth has given you good advice. Find a good travel team that is going to do things like JO's.

Help your son to stay on a good track academically. And aside from the 60-yard dash and glove/throwing skills...hit, hit, hit...and then hit some more. Ask around and find the best hitting instructor you can afford.

Good luck!

The Recruiting Timeline

Recruiting Tips

Start by reading every article and link associated with the two links posted above in this post.

My advice is different. Have fun. Enjoy today, get the most out of today, and tomorrow will take care of itself. Find a good team to play on but one he is guaranteed to play 100% of the time. No requirement that it be the most expensive or the most elite team.

D1's are looking for speed (less than 7.0 seconds in 60 yard dash for middle infielders and hopefully several 10ths of a second less). They are looking for arm strength. They look for 85 mph across the infield. They look for fielding ability. As justbb correctly pointed out, they look for hitters. He can work on the arm strength by long tossing and the speed thing perhaps there is a local speed training facility that he can start learning how to train for speed. Perhaps he is already fast enough but speed training is never a bad thing.

In a few years, after he has worked on his hitting, fielding, arm strength, and speed, he can go showcase his talents at a college showcase or selected college camp(s). If coaches like what they see, they will recruit him.

One mistake I see parents making with players (learned mostly from these forums) is pushing their kids the way they think they ought/need to be pushed. Some kids get burn out before they ever get to college. The key is that your son continues to love the game and let his own internal passion (with your encouragement) drive his activities.

Ditto to the good Summer Travel team advice.

If he is serious; then now is the time to "double his efforts." He has got to hit so I strongly advise focusing there. Determine, by his size, skills, and preference, where he would like to play on the diamond. It is a big plus to play multiple positions well but he needs to be exceptional somewhere on the diamond. Position needs of his High School varsity might be a consideration, as would his size now, potential for growth, his skill sets, his foot speed and of course where he likes to play.

I say that because if by many of those factors he narrows in on middle-infield, there are many particular skill sets he needs to be working..

You can leave it all to having fun but his time to shine is just around the bend!

I'm not advocating that you drive his bus (relating back to the too pushy parent comments) but I think this is the time you can help HIM realize how serious the talent is at the next level and how hard he HE needs to commit to preparing for that eventuality. If he doesn't see it, he won't make it anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Prime9:
Ditto to the good Summer Travel team advice.

+1, but... be selective, do your due diligence and get him in the right summer program, with a coaching staff that is known/respected. Playing good competition, in front of the right people is key also!

GED10DaD

Great post with important questions.

I'm here on the other side of the country living out an identical experience of a 14U Freshman slated for JV and of course, aspiring for D1 and beyond.....but is yet to play Varsity. A few differences being positions played (P/C/SS/OF/3B), size (5'10, 165), and we participate with solid travel ball teams that know "the system".

I know there is a lot of competition at the MI position and as someone already posted, it seems that a kid has to bring something really special to progress past others at MI. Arm strength and range seem to decide who gets the nod @ SS over 2B, along with the bat.

My kid is yet to gravitate to a #1 position for himself. But I know that may change as he continues to grow/mature and learn the game.

Looking forward to more feedback from the group, and watching your kid progress in the coming years.

My son was a middle IF up through his frosh year at a JC. Played OF in college last year.it was about his bat. He is still hoping to get back in the IF.He was pretty decent at 2nd.SS a stretch at the D1 level.Those guys are just incredible athletes and have real strong arms. You play to get in the line up, and you play where they put you.Any one of the nine spots is fine.

quote:

You play to get in the line up, and you play where they put you.Any one of the nine spots is fine.

Different perspective, ain't it?

quote:

Different perspective, ain't it?

Yeah once your playing high level college ball you just got to get into the line up, and stay there.

Wow! Thanks for all the great comments and advice. We are working on a travel/showcase team for next summer, and I appreciate the advice. We are in touch with a good one and hope to make it happen.

PESCAHOLIC, good luck to your son! It sounds like you are in a very similiar situation. I wish you well.

Keep it coming folks!

fan of game - you are absolutely right. any is fine.

I've been reading this site for awhile and really appreciate all the collected wisdom. This thread raised a question I've been thinking about.

My son has been playing with the same group of guys since 10U ball and just completed 12U. We have a very strong Legion program in our area and he'll be moving up to that program next spring. The Legion program is very community-based and really a place where people get together on summer nights. My son commented recently that he looks forward to playing in front of people other than parents.

Again and again here I see advice to "find a travel team." However, part of the fun of baseball is getting to know a group of guys and working together to win the game. So much of this showcase and travel talk sounds very individualistic - last I checked baseball is a team sport. It sounds like travel teams would be a bunch of primadonnas worried about their own stats and how they look to the "scouts/college coaches" rather than trying to win the game. For example, tournaments that have "no bunting" rules? Is that baseball?

Even if my son turns out to be an exceptional player (who knows?), wouldn't he grow more as a person by continuing to build on the local relationships and try to accomplish something with his team?

Welcome JD!! You bring up good points. Probably the most important point I read is that your son has goals, which means he is thinking ahead. That's a good thing, in more ways than just baseball. We tried to help our son achieve his goals and reach his potential. The activity is for the player, imo. That being said, your instincts are good. The local rec teams can be more win/loss oriented which can be a good thing, not always though. Playing with a more skilled group of players can identify weak spots in a kids game quickly, so they can be strengthened.

Its not usually an either/or situation. Most guys and their folks learn to juggle travel ball and the local team, until high school when they learn to juggle the HS team and travel ball. Good luck.

Not all travel teams are individual oriented.

Many develop a strong team atmosphere, almost like a family. It takes time and research to find the solid travel teams

JDFarmer,

Having fun and being part of a team is important.

Of course baseball is a team sport, but it is played by individuals. The teams change but the individual must move on at some point or will these players all stop playing at the same time?

Also, I think you have the wrong idea as to what travel and/or club baseball is all about. These are teams that want to win and enjoy playing team baseball. They just do it in front of more scouts and college recruiters. They develop friendships and have fun in most cases. They still have to play the game when the scouts and recruiters are not there.

Now if playing with the same exact kids from 10 until 18 is important, then there is nothing wrong with that. But there is no reason to down play those who want something different and are willing to sacrifice things (like the comforts of home) to reach their goals.

I would think that if growing as a person is the goal then the more we experience the more we grow and learn to adjust to what is out there in the world. For some that means getting out there in the world and building new relationships while still trying to accomplish things both individually and as a team.

I'm not familiar with any "no bunt" tournaments. I see primadonnas at every level of play. I just know that the great majority of travel team have extreme competitors and winning is the goal.

If these travel teams are not playing real baseball... It's odd that so many scouts and recruiters show up looking for players they can add to their "team"! Are you suggesting these people are not interested in recruiting good teammates and they are looking for primadonnas to add to their program?

All that said, I think it's great if someone wants to stay on their local Legion team. That can be a very valuable experience as well and it might be the best for many kids. Just don't quite understand why someone would think that because a player is playing travel or club baseball... He would be anything less than the teammates on the Legion team.

Do what is best for you, whatever that might be, but don't label other people who think differently.

Thanks Dad, TR and PG.

PG - I agree with your statement: I would think that if growing as a person is the goal then the more we experience the more we grow and learn to adjust to what is out there in the world.

As a parent, it is interesting that one aspect of that philosphy is whether so much emphasis on baseball is the best route. Already at 12U it seems like sports commitments are limiting our options for other types of travel or experiences. No chance for music or drama or international travel because of the continuing commitments to sports.

Guess there are trade-offs to everything.

Sorry if I offended with my initial post. Maybe my guy will level-off and Legion ball will be enough of a stretch and we won't have to consider the alternatives. I do think our area may be unique in the prominence of the Legion program and the community expectation that the players stick with that program.

Yes---you are in a region where Legion is very very strong

In our area, Legion Ball is no longer what it used to be just 3-5 years ago. We chose travel ball as a means for son to compete against a higher level of competition that just could not be found locally.

What we have experienced in just the one year of travel ball is that the boys on the teams are all there for one goal...to play at the next level. They may not all make it there, but they all want to be there...they all know what is expected of them and they have fun, yet a seriousness that is more mature than local rec ball.
The boys that my son plays with have the commitment, competiveness, ability and drive that we can't find locally.

One other thing is exposure. The more areas that a player can be seen, the better his chances of being seen by a college or pro scout that might be the perfect fit for him to continue playing ball at the next level.

My son has played on more than one travel team, and he has not found the rosters to be full of primadonnas.

Travel ball has been very good for my son. Playing for men who have succeeded at helping their players get to the next level appears to be important, although we are still in the midst of the journey.

go3:

You've received some good advice here.

A couple of additional thoughts:
Assuming that he begins to attract the attention of recruiters, do everything you can to involve him directly in and make him responsible for his recruiting process. For example, let him be the one who communicates with coaches; responding to questionnaires, sending team schedules to coaches at programs of interest, etc.

Similarly, he should be the one who's most active in scoping out colleges and their baseball programs. The more responsibility he takes for determining his eventual destination, the more he'll mature during the process and take ownership for the results.

Meanwhile, a huge congratulations to him on the academic side of the equation. It would be hard to exaggerate the significance of great grades and strong test scores.

At most colleges, baseball coaches have few, if any, chits that they can call in with their admissions office. Every player who can carry his own weight on the field and in the classroom is highly desirable.

Finally, try to help him come to appreciate the importance of choosing a college for which he's well suited; both as a baseball player and as a student. Playing careers can take funny turns. If he happens to awaken one morning and find that his playing days have ended (heaven forbid), it's a heck of a lot better to already be in a place where he's well suited than where he's not.

Best of luck to your son...and have fun!

I feel I need to add one more thing.

My son, a 2013, plays on a very competitive 16u travel team, where most of the kids are 2012s. Some of the parents I talk to are lamenting the fact that their sons are talented, smart kids who did not apply themselves in the first two years of high school, and they are now behind the 8 ball, recruiting-wise, as juniors.

Grades, grades, grades!

Prepster, congratulations on your son joining the UNC staff. I saw him in 2007 and he was tremendous. Best of luck to him!

JDFarmer,

Travel ball, at least where my kid has played, is not as individualized as you may believe. As said before my post, these kids want to WIN. My son (2013) was on a travel team with all his high school buddies and the team was awful. My son was dying to catch on with a competitive program. He was getting mercy ruled in local tournaments every game and now is on a team that can compete at the PG tourneys. Not to mention all the new experiences and kids he met. I think such socialization with other kids is very important, and he had to know there is a whole other world out there of ball players much better than the local kids.

Since your kid is 12, you still have a little time to decide. I personally think 13 or 14 is a good age to start travel, provided he is playing locally.

The bottom line is, if your son truly wants to play college ball at the highest level possible, you and he need to do what's best for him. All that local community experience will lose its meaning if he never has the opportunity to go after his dream, imo.

JDFarmer

I think it is great that Legion is strong in your area. My son has been very fortunate to have played for both American Legion team (last summer) and a national travel team for 4 years prior to that. He played Legion after the collge recruiting process was over.

His Legion is experience was tremendous. It is an option for him again this summer as he will be 19. IMHO Legion is about some very good baseball and community. He loved every minute of Legion baseball. We did see many in-state college scouts at the games evaluating non-committed juniors and seniors. Those schools recruited heavily from Legion. As you would expect they had many, many in-state students on their rosters.

Travel baseball at the national level is a different kind of exposure. There is incredible talent at these tournaments and showcases. We saw collge & pro scouts from every corner of the country at some of these events. It was a fantastic experience for my son and his team. He received the D1 & academic exposure he needed to get to where he is.

As always, it comes down to goals and choices. For us, a national travel team gave us great exposure and many schools to choose from that were both in-state and out-of-state. You also have to factor in the academic aspect to all of this. For us, that was BIG, and we had to extend the search beyond our home state for many reasons.

Good luck in your search and possible future Legion experience. It is a lot of fun.

Many thanks, Baseballdad.

The shoulder injury that ended his playing career may have been a blessing in disguise. He's really loving the coaching experience and extremely grateful that his first opportunity came at his alma mater.

Sorry about the injury. He had everything necessary to be a Big League pitcher. Really admired his competiveness and his ability to simply win baseball games. He's a great addition to a fantastic program. Best wishes.

Prepster,

Robert had a great career as a pitcher and despite that career ending too early... He is going to have maybe even a "greater" career in coaching.

Also, just to be clear. I think Legion Baseball is great. Obviously it is stronger in some areas and less competitive in others. There is nothing wrong with deciding to play Legion, or any other baseball. It's all good! And that includes travel or club baseball.

I just don't like labeling kids as selfish or primadonnas based on where they choose to play. Those types exist everywhere just as thousands of great kids exist everywhere. It's not where they play, it's who they are.

Also want to add...

There are things that are much more important than baseball.

Many thanks to you both.

PGStaff, you put your finger on precisely the reason that the day of his professional release wasn't as sad as many might expect. Knowing that he aspired to coach and feeling like he had all the tools to succeed at it, I looked forward to the next "chapter" in his career. Meanwhile, I'm finding that following his coaching career is going to be as much fun as it was when I was following him as a player.

Whether our sons decide to remain directly associated with baseball or not once their playing days end, the lessons they've learned about how to succeed as players and students will serve them well in whatever career choice they make. Baseball success is tough work; requiring dogged persistence to improve each day. It also is guaranteed to acquaint them with what it means to fail, and how vital it is to pick oneself up and keep striving to achieve. I don't know many pursuits that don't benefit from those lessons.

Prepster,

I was not aware of Robert's injury being a career ender, nor had I heard of his joining UNC's staff. Now I'm kicking myself because I was just there weekend before last with our travel team, and I feel like I missed the chance to say hello!

I'm glad he has found an avocation he loves. That in itself puts him well ahead of most people! I'll hope for future chances to see him and maybe even send a kid or two his way.

Many thanks, Midlo Dad.

He didn't know the injury was a "career ender" either until his 8th and final bullpen, thrown the day before Spring training was scheduled to begin. He'd been at the Padres' training facility since it had opened after the holidays in mid-January, and his recovery seemed to be coming along great...actually, ahead of schedule. However, in that 8th bullpen, the old familiar, sharp pain suddenly returned; and, it prevented him from throwing a competitive inning in Spring training.

I know he'd love to see you when you're back in the area next...and he's ALWAYS very interested in hearing about potential players; especially if they're also capable students.

Prepster,

Not to get too far off topic.

I know your son has what it takes to be a great coach. I'm sure Coach Fox knows that even more.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but Robert's entire career is the reason to believe in success in the coaching profession.

He was not the superstar glamor boy coming out of high school. He did not have the eye popping velocity of some others. Lots of good athletes with good arms, but his greatest talents were inside his head and his heart. Great attitude, extremely competitive, hard worker, intelligence, determination, toughness, etc.

He became one of the very best pitchers and winners. He did it physically and mentally. He, with lots of help I'm sure, figured it out. The ability to accomplish these things took the same exact traits that are needed to be a great coach. That's not even talking about the leadership skills that were so obvious.

We obviously didn't know enough about Robert when he was in high school. But we do now! There is no doubt that he will be a "great" coach, if that is what he wants. Also a great representative for the game of baseball.

You've heard it often... Congratulations dad! What an outstanding job you've done.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Prepster,

Not to get too far off topic.

I know your son has what it takes to be a great coach. I'm sure Coach Fox knows that even more.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but Robert's entire career is the reason to believe in success in the coaching profession.

He was not the superstar glamor boy coming out of high school. He did not have the eye popping velocity of some others. Lots of good athletes with good arms, but his greatest talents were inside his head and his heart. Great attitude, extremely competitive, hard worker, intelligence, determination, toughness, etc.

He became one of the very best pitchers and winners. He did it physically and mentally. He, with lots of help I'm sure, figured it out. The ability to accomplish these things took the same exact traits that are needed to be a great coach. That's not even talking about the leadership skills that were so obvious.

We obviously didn't know enough about Robert when he was in high school. But we do now! There is no doubt that he will be a "great" coach, if that is what he wants. Also a great representative for the game of baseball.

You've heard it often... Congratulations dad! What an outstanding job you've done.

What a great tribute and no, that is not too far off topic...

I agree with what everyone else has said here about Robert Woodard. I'd like to say a few words about his Dad - Clayton - known to us as Prepster) as well. He is a humble man who has been more than kind to me and my concerns behind the scenes. He was one of the early ones I looked up to when I first became a member here 6 years ago and I am thrilled to see him posting here again.

His son Robert was an all-time great in the history of college baseball. I saw more heralded players on his team struggle in the College World Series but I saw Robert battle like a bulldog and win against the best college players in the country. His post game interview on ESPN was priceless and very classy. I was proud to say that I knew his dad (at least electronically). Another one of those cases where the apple does not fall far from the tree...

quote:

I would think that if growing as a person is the goal then the more we experience the more we grow and learn to adjust to what is out there in the world. For some that means getting out there in the world and building new relationships while still trying to accomplish things both individually and as a team.

-PG

This statement of advice from PG is poetic. Very nicely written.

Being able to establish a strong network of people who believe in you in any endeavor will help you reach that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

When cast into the fire, never give in. Persistence will win in the end.

Whoa, guys!!

I'm afraid you've succeeded in making a rarely emotional guy emotional. You're way too kind; especially as it relates to me. Nonetheless, thank you very much.

To your point, PGStaff, one of my principal reasons for posting here has been my belief that Robert was but one of many examples in the sport of what heart and dedication can accomplish. As a result, I've wanted to provide whatever encouragement I could to those players and parents who were similarly inclined to follow that challenging path; but who were at a much earlier phase in the process.

I agree with those who say that professional baseball players fall into one of two categories: "stars" and "grinders". The gifted ones, the "stars," set the standard of play on the field; but, they are in the minority.

The majority of players are "grinders." They may be above-average athletes; but, in order to stay on the same field with the "stars," they have to work exceptionally hard on a consistent basis.

Of course, one does not become a "grinder" overnight; and the process must begin early. That's why I'm always heartened when I see the young players taking extra turns in the batting cage, extra grounders, extra long throws, extra instruction; whatever "extra" it takes to move them sufficiently up the ladder that, one day, they can play with the "stars."

Young guys, you can do it! If you have the passion and the dedication to improve yourself every day; you can play with the "stars!"

quote:

Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
Prepster, congratulations on your son joining the UNC staff. I saw him in 2007 and he was tremendous. Best of luck to him!

Wow!
Congrats, great stuff, baseball never really ends for some does it.
Hope all is well, those ACC years still seems like it was yesterday.