What do you do to keep a player from stepping out? This is a high school kid who keeps wanting to step towards third base instead of pitcher. Basically bailing out!! Any help or drills??
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wwhs3b,
In the past we have placed objects on the ground by the front foot in BP. You won't be very successful off balance and you will grow tired of bad BP sessions.
In the past we have placed objects on the ground by the front foot in BP. You won't be very successful off balance and you will grow tired of bad BP sessions.
quote:Originally posted by wwhs3b:
What do you do to keep a player from stepping out? This is a high school kid who keeps wanting to step towards third base instead of pitcher. Basically bailing out!! Any help or drills??
Go to no stride.
Have them just lift the front heel but keep the front toe down ala Pujols.
I agree painguy. If you look at my sons clip that I posted, that is his approach, i teach it to the young players, to avoid the bad habit of stepping in the bucket.
One thing our coach did to help our kids was this. He went a bought an 8' long 2x6 and cut it in 2 pieces at 3 1/2 foot long and then 3 2" pieces. Nail the 2" pieces on top of one of the long pieces, placing one at each end and one in the middle. Nail the other long piece on top of those 2" pieces and you will end up with a 6" x 3 1/2' long tool. Since this will stand about 6" of the ground start him standing on this and working off a tee. Now if he steps out he will be falling off the wood, after he gets used to steping straight you can move to soft toss.
If you have the negative loading moves of hip coil and hand cocking out of plane during the stride then it is hard to step out. If you have neither loading move then staying in is not going to help you a whole lot.
Sheffield proves that you can load the upper body and still step in the bucket and work toward HOF status.
I would look at hip coil and upper body loading patterns and less on line of the feet. Fix the first part and the second part gets better.
The swing should be more top down controlled in sequence. If the hands don't get back the right way and stay back to foot plant the you are in deep trouble
Leave the feet alone and work UPPER BODY for awhile and you both will be less frustrated. Develop a good loading pattern and in time he will gain more confidence about his ball fear and / or the upper bdoy fix will yield more power and he will quit pulling off the ball with his lead shoulder.
Not to be a jerk but physical barriers to where you step don't work. All you will do is make him aware of his feet ....maybe....Never seenm anybody getting better doing that. Hitting solutions are usually at the opposite side of the belt line from where people are seeing the problem.
No stride can quickly become no shift and you have a bucket full of new problems in time. Players that can load during the stride/ shift and hit are eventually the best
Sheffield proves that you can load the upper body and still step in the bucket and work toward HOF status.
I would look at hip coil and upper body loading patterns and less on line of the feet. Fix the first part and the second part gets better.
The swing should be more top down controlled in sequence. If the hands don't get back the right way and stay back to foot plant the you are in deep trouble
Leave the feet alone and work UPPER BODY for awhile and you both will be less frustrated. Develop a good loading pattern and in time he will gain more confidence about his ball fear and / or the upper bdoy fix will yield more power and he will quit pulling off the ball with his lead shoulder.
Not to be a jerk but physical barriers to where you step don't work. All you will do is make him aware of his feet ....maybe....Never seenm anybody getting better doing that. Hitting solutions are usually at the opposite side of the belt line from where people are seeing the problem.
No stride can quickly become no shift and you have a bucket full of new problems in time. Players that can load during the stride/ shift and hit are eventually the best
In high level/mlb pattern, body gets in synch with cocking of hips which includes not only hip coil, bot a certain overall body muscle tone.
Then, back arm controls (stimulates synch by) front leg.
Front leg (see also front knee "flare") is then primary determinant of where/how front foot comes down.
You "should" see/feel a connection (synched motion of) between back elbow and front foot getting to front toe touch.
Then, back arm controls (stimulates synch by) front leg.
Front leg (see also front knee "flare") is then primary determinant of where/how front foot comes down.
You "should" see/feel a connection (synched motion of) between back elbow and front foot getting to front toe touch.
quote:Now if he steps out he will be falling off the wood, after he gets used to steping straight you can move to soft toss.
This won't help the problem of stepping out, at all!!...It's the wrong approach!!
Are some of you kidding? Do you write this stuff just so you sound like you know what you are talking about? What good does it do to make it so complicated that it can't be taught to kids? Do any of you apply all of the things that you are talking about with real baseball players?
Please do this guy a favor and write something in English how this guy can get this kid from bailing out.
Please do this guy a favor and write something in English how this guy can get this kid from bailing out.
Blue Dog- I think you have some knowledge. That said, don't tell us why somebody is wrong. Please tell us how to fix it!
ncball THANK YOU!
wwhs3b
Bailing many times has to due with fear (maybe stemming from a previous being HBP). Figure out a way for him to get in swings without the possibility of getting beaned, or use balls that wont inflict any pain. It can take a while to build this confidence back up so be patient.
quote:What do you do to keep a player from stepping out? This is a high school kid who keeps wanting to step towards third base instead of pitcher. Basically bailing out!! Any help or drills??
Bailing many times has to due with fear (maybe stemming from a previous being HBP). Figure out a way for him to get in swings without the possibility of getting beaned, or use balls that wont inflict any pain. It can take a while to build this confidence back up so be patient.
Ncball and Coach May, Swingbuster already told him how to fix his stepping out problem......And, I assure both of you that Swingbuster knows the swing as well, if not better, than anyone...
I don't think hitters step out from fear of the ball, for the most part.....Sure, some do, but most are simply trying to give themselves room to swing their arms....They feel cramped because they aren't loaded properly....So, they feel like they need to create some space to swing the bat......
As Swingbuster has said many times, learn how the upper and lower body should function.....Meaning how the upper and lower body works against each other to properly load.....
Many hitters and probably all those who step out, don't load the the upper and lower body against each other....For anyone who doesn't understand what this means, the lower body opens in the load while the upper body loads and doesn't open....This creates the stretch in the center, or core, that Swingbuster talks about....
When a hitter loads the upper and lower body together in a negative move, without working against each other, it often leaves the hitter in a situation where he feels like he needs to create some space for his arms to swing the bat, thus he steps out....
I don't think hitters step out from fear of the ball, for the most part.....Sure, some do, but most are simply trying to give themselves room to swing their arms....They feel cramped because they aren't loaded properly....So, they feel like they need to create some space to swing the bat......
As Swingbuster has said many times, learn how the upper and lower body should function.....Meaning how the upper and lower body works against each other to properly load.....
Many hitters and probably all those who step out, don't load the the upper and lower body against each other....For anyone who doesn't understand what this means, the lower body opens in the load while the upper body loads and doesn't open....This creates the stretch in the center, or core, that Swingbuster talks about....
When a hitter loads the upper and lower body together in a negative move, without working against each other, it often leaves the hitter in a situation where he feels like he needs to create some space for his arms to swing the bat, thus he steps out....
Hip coil?????
When a hitter steps out, he is trying to create something that he feels is missing in his load, IMO.....What that something is, could be any number of things....An example is, he may be trying to create hip coil which he didn't create in his load....
If the hitter learns to load his upper and lower body against each other, he will begin feeling things he needs such as hip coil....
Feeling the stretch in the middle, or core, while loading will clear up alot about his swing....And, he will feel much more comfortable about unloading into the ball, IMO....
When a hitter steps out, he is creating the stretch from the middle, core, that he didn't create in his load.....As he steps out, his lower body is opening creating stretch against his upper body....
If he learns to create this stretch in his load, he will have no reason to step out, IMO....
When a hitter steps out, he is trying to create something that he feels is missing in his load, IMO.....What that something is, could be any number of things....An example is, he may be trying to create hip coil which he didn't create in his load....
If the hitter learns to load his upper and lower body against each other, he will begin feeling things he needs such as hip coil....
Feeling the stretch in the middle, or core, while loading will clear up alot about his swing....And, he will feel much more comfortable about unloading into the ball, IMO....
When a hitter steps out, he is creating the stretch from the middle, core, that he didn't create in his load.....As he steps out, his lower body is opening creating stretch against his upper body....
If he learns to create this stretch in his load, he will have no reason to step out, IMO....
BlueDog,quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
And, I assure both of you that Swingbuster knows the swing as well, if not better, than anyone...
That may or may not be true. What is true is that Coach May has a son who is a very good hitter. He'll probably be playing baseball beyond High School. For most of us who enjoy dicussing baseball the real goal is to produce results. Our son's and daughter's are our best students and unless you're working with the same hitter regularly from beginning to end they are the only hitters we are really "developing".
Having a son who has or will play beyond High School might not mean anything to you, but it does to me. So maybe Coach May doesn't know the latest buzzword or how many degrees the lower body should open while the upper body loads. Heck I don't even know that and to be honest I don't really care. Coach May has a son that can hit and in my mind that means he also knows a little about the swing.
Jason
quote:I would look at hip coil and upper body loading patterns and less on line of the feet. Fix the first part and the second part gets better.
Ncball and Coach May, what Swingbuster is saying in the above statement is something I believe every hitter and coach should learn to understand....
However, I realize it's not, at all, easy to read about it and get what he is saying....I wish it was!!
Who is measuring these degree calculations?
A scientist with a micrometer ? I am sure it isnt a coach---real coaches are one on one with each player because each player is different in mental makeup and physical ability
I am with Jason---I have spoken with Coach May a number of times and he knows the game---
Why do the "interent people" want to make the game so darn technical ? We know the results of what Coach May has done but what has Blue Dog or any other "internet person" done---BD has been asked over and over who and what age he instructs, if in fact he does, but still no answer
Baseball instruction is one on one and to be structured to the individual player not a general statement on a website
A scientist with a micrometer ? I am sure it isnt a coach---real coaches are one on one with each player because each player is different in mental makeup and physical ability
I am with Jason---I have spoken with Coach May a number of times and he knows the game---
Why do the "interent people" want to make the game so darn technical ? We know the results of what Coach May has done but what has Blue Dog or any other "internet person" done---BD has been asked over and over who and what age he instructs, if in fact he does, but still no answer
Baseball instruction is one on one and to be structured to the individual player not a general statement on a website
quote:Coach May has a son that can hit and in my mind that means he also knows a little about the swing.
Jason, of course, he does.....We all know just that, a little about the swing!!...If we knew more than that, we wouldn't be discussing this stuff!!
Now, as for Swingbuster....I have had many discussions with him....And, I have learned much from him....I know you have some animosity for Richard, Tom and some others....I don't care to get involved in any of that....I want to learn, for more reasons than you obviously know about....And, I know you do, also!!...So, let's learn!!
Jason, I felt Ncball and Coach May wanted to hear my explanation, so I gave it....They may, or may not, agree.....
Coach May and myself, often do agree on hitting stuff......Why you became so defensive in your post, I don't know....
Coach May and myself, often do agree on hitting stuff......Why you became so defensive in your post, I don't know....
BlueDog,quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
I know you have some animosity for Richard, Tom and some others....I don't care to get involved in any of that....I want to learn, for more reasons than you obviously know about....And, I know you do, also!!...So, let's learn!!
I'm not sure what Richard and Tom have to do with this, but I agree with the rest. I'm not trying to stop you from discussing or debating. I enjoy reading that stuff for the most part. I just could do without all of the "I'm smart and you aren't" stuff. I don't think that helps anyone learn and really serves no purpose other than to boost one's ego.
For what it's worth, even though my comments were addressed to you they weren't necessarily directed at you. It was more of a "general" comment. Please don't take offense.
Jason
quote:I just could do without all of the "I'm smart and you aren't" stuff.
Jason, that only applies when I'm talking to TRhit!!
Heres the deal in my opinion. Bluedog and Swingbuster know hitting. They have come on here over the years and have given some good advice. My only problem with them is sometimes they get a little too technical when someone asks a question. That is just my opinion it doesnt mean they are too technical for everyone. I can get technical but I would rather lay it out in words my players can understand. TR is one of the most down to earth , old school guys you would ever want to meet. He has forgotten more baseball than I could ever hope to know.
I would like to take credit for my son being able to hit but to be honest with you I can not. He could hit before I ever taught him anything. In fact when he was in diapers he would throw up a rock in the driveway and hit it with a broomstick. Power? He was not taught how to hit with power. The ball has just always gone a long way when he hits it.
I do believe that alot of that has to do with the fact he has a natural ability to put everything together when he swings. Hips core etc. Now he has had some good instruction over the years. It has helped him make adjustments as he has gotten older and the pitching has gotten better.
Stepping out or stepping in the bucket: Some kids do this because of fear of the baseball. Some kids do this because there poor swing mechanics will not allow them to fire the hips without stepping out thus clearing the hips. Some kids do this only on the inside pitch because they have a long swing and they are trying to get the bat through the zone. And some kids do this because they just have a god awfull swing. Regardless of why you just can not hit stepping out.
Start with the stance itself and then work from there. Teach them that they will not be sucessfull by stepping out. I have seen 4 by 4's used , bats , all kinds of things put behind the hitters feet. Ive seen car tires used to put their feet in so they can not step out. You name it I have probaly seen it. Untill the player is more concerned with being able to hit than he is with getting hit he will never hit. There are alot of kids who step in the bucket that are not afraid of getting hit. They just have a natural tendency to step out with the lead foot just like some kids will step towards homeplate when they swing. Good luck.
I would like to take credit for my son being able to hit but to be honest with you I can not. He could hit before I ever taught him anything. In fact when he was in diapers he would throw up a rock in the driveway and hit it with a broomstick. Power? He was not taught how to hit with power. The ball has just always gone a long way when he hits it.
I do believe that alot of that has to do with the fact he has a natural ability to put everything together when he swings. Hips core etc. Now he has had some good instruction over the years. It has helped him make adjustments as he has gotten older and the pitching has gotten better.
Stepping out or stepping in the bucket: Some kids do this because of fear of the baseball. Some kids do this because there poor swing mechanics will not allow them to fire the hips without stepping out thus clearing the hips. Some kids do this only on the inside pitch because they have a long swing and they are trying to get the bat through the zone. And some kids do this because they just have a god awfull swing. Regardless of why you just can not hit stepping out.
Start with the stance itself and then work from there. Teach them that they will not be sucessfull by stepping out. I have seen 4 by 4's used , bats , all kinds of things put behind the hitters feet. Ive seen car tires used to put their feet in so they can not step out. You name it I have probaly seen it. Untill the player is more concerned with being able to hit than he is with getting hit he will never hit. There are alot of kids who step in the bucket that are not afraid of getting hit. They just have a natural tendency to step out with the lead foot just like some kids will step towards homeplate when they swing. Good luck.
BlueDog- Yes, I wanted to hear your opinion. You have some good things to offer. You don't need to be so cryptic. I would love all of you guys who spend time with this to work on relating good information in a manner that is easily understood to the layman. Baseball is a game played by kids. Those are the ones we are trying to teach. We are not helping them if they don't understand the process in a way that easy to learn.
quote:Bluedog and Swingbuster know hitting................My only problem with them is sometimes they get a little too technical when someone asks a question.
I agree that Swingbuster knows hitting...Not so sure I do!!
I, also, agree that the discussions get too technical for most....I don't know how to correct that....
I say keep the little boys out of the locker room.
I say stop talking in circles. Technical jargon only makes you feel better about yourself. It does no good if you can't relate it to the student.
A great teacher is not a reciter like many of the people on this site and some others. It is one who can detect a problem and fix it.
A great teacher is not a reciter like many of the people on this site and some others. It is one who can detect a problem and fix it.
A simple way to reduce stepping out is with a Tee. Place it on the inside edge of the plate about 12" closer to the mound then the front foot. Work your way in an arch to the outside of the plate till the Tee is on the outside edge across from the middle of the batters stride thigh. Players that step out like the ball to get deep onto the plate as they swing and are visually accustomed to swinging that way. The tee work helps to re-orientate the proper hitting locations.
Chameleon says you should learn to understand the jargon...
Ncball says you shouldn't speak the jargon....
I tend to agree with Chameleon....I believe those who don't understand the jargon don't feel good about themselves....I, also, believe the more jargon you understand, the better chance you have to learn how to teach a high level swing....
I see far too many coaches who don't understand the jargon keeping kids from reaching their hitting potential.....Level swings and ground balls with a round of applause....Let's hear it for bad coaching!!
Ncball says you shouldn't speak the jargon....
I tend to agree with Chameleon....I believe those who don't understand the jargon don't feel good about themselves....I, also, believe the more jargon you understand, the better chance you have to learn how to teach a high level swing....
I see far too many coaches who don't understand the jargon keeping kids from reaching their hitting potential.....Level swings and ground balls with a round of applause....Let's hear it for bad coaching!!
BlueDog- I do understand the jargon. My point is that you can't be too technical teaching the swing when you are working with players. Great knowledge is useless if it can not be conveyed in a manner that can be learned by the student.
