Still need help throwing Can you help us !!

5T, you have a PM.

What was it Yogi Berra said? 90% of the game is mental and the other half is physical.

JMO, maybe he just needs a break from throwing - he's gotten into a self-defeating mindset and is pressing. We've been there.

This helped us:

The Mental Game of Baseball

5tools how often does your son play? The more repition the better he will get. Also what position does he play?

2Bmom

Did you son have a similar issue.... I will take a look at the book.. Thanks

All-starshortstop3

My son played freshman ball for his highschool this year. He was a thirdbaseman for the in town travel team since he was 8 years old . he was forced to play outfield in freshman ball because of the throwing issues I think they only took him because he is such a good athlete they just couldnt understand what was going on with his throwing.played legion summer ball as a DH because of throwing also..

2Bmom, baseball is 90% 1/2 mental. (Yogi).
Try blindfolding the kid and putting him somewhere where he can focus on throwing against something, a backstop, while blindfolded, and just tell him to visualize what he's throwing at. He'll probably miss alot that way, but he may just focus. Then have him remove it and try again. Please tell him to remember that a bad throw is just a bad throw, its not the end of the world. He may be pressing.

There was a kid on our HS team this year, great athlete, great infielder but started doing the same thing. Started in the winter and lasted all throughout the highschool season, was forced to play 1st base and when we picked a guy off he accidentally threw a ground ball to second. His throws were either 15 ft left, 15 ft right, sailed, or went straight into the ground. I think it was more mental than anything, just let him take a week off throwing and see if that helps.

quote:

Did you son have a similar issue.... I will take a look at the book.. Thanks

Similar issue, different problem. He is a fantastic contact hitter - struck out less than ten times his entire life. At 13, got moved up to varsity - he was hitting so well that two seniors went to the coach and said they needed him. He was starting DH (recovering from an arm injury). It was a no-pressure situation. If he did well, great. If he didn't, well, he's just a little kid. Hit .323 for the first 13 games. Saw his numbers, and freaked out - he expected himself to produce. Started pressing and started striking out. It was a rough time, but a great learning experience. He bounced back and went 2-for-3 his last game. After the end of the season, we just concentrated on strength and conditioning for a month. The thing about lifting weights is that you can't fail. You just lift.

Baseball is a game of failure. The book helps direct your focus to the successes. My son had a great summer season, made a new 16U fall travel team (he just turned 14), and we're looking forward to the spring.

Tell your son to take a deep breath, relax, have fun, and the arm will come back.

Good luck.

It sure does sound like a mental block, not a physical problem.

I have read about two approaches for mental blocks, and I'm going to combine the two in my suggestion for something wacky to try...

1. Mental blocks are sometimes resolved by trying hard NOT to do the thing you have been trying too hard to do.
2. Metal blocks/ forcing too hard/ tensing up can sometimes be helped with humor.

Here's my suggestion:

(Theory 1, try NOT to do what you were trying too hard to do.) Get a brightly colored hula hoop - preferably hot pink. Go to an empty ballfield, hang the hula hoop on the backstop (so that it's a round target about 4' in diameter), and instruct your son to throw and try NOT to hit the fence/backstop inside of the hula hoop. No matter how he throws, he will be successful. If he misses the hula hoop, he is doing what he was trying to do. If he hits inside the hula hoop...hey, he is able to hit a target.

BUT WAIT...

Don't start throwing yet, gotta try Theory 2, the humor thing.

Before letting your son start to throw, tell him WAIT, I forgot something, and pull out of the equipment bag...some kind of HULA garb. A grass skirt, huge sunglasses, even one of those bikini tops made of two coconut halves, if you think that will make him laugh. Maybe it won't make him laugh, but instead will make him totally embarassed - what if someone else sees you? Either way, he is distracted from thinking too much about the throwing issue.

Okay, go ahead and throw the ball now, son. Make sure you don't hit the hula hoop!



(And yes, I am serious about this as a strategy to try, based on some info I've read through the years...but you could try some other kind of humor, whatever you think would make your son laugh...and/or relax.)

Please don't try to skirt the issue, MN-Mom!

feeling is and without seeing him throw that there is more mechanical issues.
Start with his grip. In/outfielders should adjust the ball to a 4 seam grip after receiving the ball.
Next make sure he is striding with his front foot towards the target witch allows him to onpen his hips and then rotate his upper body towards the target. The stride can be slightly open bt not closed to the target.
Next make sure he finishes his throw releasing out front and not too high/early.
Taking the time to grip properly is very important and with practice it will be automatic. Quickly feel for the seams.
If he is a righty his plant should be slightly to the left or right at the target.
The mental part is that he is afraid to make a wild throw so he needs to work harder not less hard.. As an infielder he should relax and take time to get the grip and a stride towards the target. This is not a big stride like a pitcher .

Perhaps someone other than him is taking it a bit too seriously and putting too much pressure on him?

BobbleheadDoll

Thanks for your reply. I do believe that certain things start off as mechanical and then ultimatley become mental.I had him throw with a pitcher from college and his mechanics look sound and his grips on the ball are for the most part correct.Its just that he will not let the ball go with thinking half the time. Oddly enough yesterday we where watching his sister play a tennis match and i decided to throw a tennis ball at him and have him throw it back about 50 ft he threw a bullet right to my chest about 8 times. Then I wanted to go get the gloves and he was not to sure he was so happy that he thru the tennis balls without hitting the dirt. Its weird
how is mind works....

MN-Mom

I appreciate your concern. I will try your pln and see if it works but the skirt might be a little to much for my son....

Thanks
Fivetools

I think a very telling statement was that you said he seems to throw better the farther he gets from his target. To me it sounds as if farther away he lets it go and just relaxes and throws the ball. I imagine that when throwing close you are using a target and when far away he is simply throwing to a person. There is no aiming involved there and therefor he can relax and throw. When you play catch do simply that, play catch. No target for a while; don't even hold up your glove. Let him throw it to you as a person. Throw grounders and pop flies to each other. Soon he will relax and let his natural throwing ability take over and he will throw it to you just fine. Then you could occasionally flash the glove for a target and I bet he will hit it. Just don't be in a rush and give him some time to just throw the ball without thinking about the target.

hsballcoach

Thank you for that input I will try that approach as well.You might be on to something here. maybe the mind does relax the further the throw is because it doesnt have to be perfect and a close throw really should in his mind. I will do this without even mentioning it.

thanks again for your input if you have any ideas please do share it......

Fivetools

I love the fun approach described MN Mom, great concept. If he is tense and trying too hard many things go wrong most notability timing and tempo. Timing, tempo and rhythm are such an important part of throwing. Watch to see how he extends to glove hand forward as the throwing arm extends back. Arm should move to a strong throwing position just after the front foot plants.

My son pitched “lights out” all summer except for one game. He was trying too much to throw hard instead of simply relaxing and do what his body naturally did. It was terrible to watch, but he worked through it pretty quick and is was all in trying too hard to throw that threw his tempo off.

I am curious. Are you implying that he has never long tossed?
When you throw long you are still trying to hit the other guy in the chest area.
I still think he just hasn't put the work in. That will affect his mental issues more than anything.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I still think he just hasn't put the work in.

And I think you are seriously mistaken.

Texan explain your comment.

I have had several PM with this poster and that is my opinion.

I have also exchanged pm's with the poster. I am absolutely convinced the problem is mental, similar to that encounted by Knoblauch.

An experienced 15YO ballplayer (termed an excellent player) does not suddenly become unable to hit the target because of either not throwing enough or mechanics.

Especially when we are talking about short and soft throws being more of a problem than hard and long throws.

The problem is mental.

My opinion is basede on the fact he can throw a tennis ball fairly accurate. The light TB is easier to throw as it is obviously lighter than a BB. If he had proper throwing mechanics/grip and was properly conditioned, the BB would be easier to throw. My opinion is that he is breaking down somewhere in the delivery. If it was mental he couldn't throw the TB either.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I really don't think you understand the "yips".

At the tennis match, his mind is off baseball. And he was not throwing a baseball. So the pressure was not present.

Have you ever worked with anyone who had a case of the "yips"?

I know a few guys who have control problems when they are on the mound but have never hear this term.
I know these guys suffer from nerves and one throws in the 90s. He does well if he throws in relief and only 1 inning. My guess is he tries thinking too far a head.
I for 1 believe mental issues are a symptomn and not a cause. This posters son has had problems and has lost his confidence. Yes BB may trigger the mental part but there is only 1 way to solve it and that is to throw. Take some pressure off him and as people have suggested let him have some fun with it and regain his confidence. Mechanics may well be were it all started to fall apart.

The problem is far more formidable than one can imagine. As you may recall, Knoblauch never whipped the "yips" and ended up retiring. I don't think one could say that mechanics and lack of throwing were his problems.

Addressing the mechanics will not cure the problem at this point. It is a matter of regaining confidence. Of letting the body do what it knows how to do and take care of the throwing.

Yes I agree the mental part is a big problem. The 1 guy I mentioned went to JC for 2 years and struggled to the point he no longer wanted to pitch. ML scouts worked with him and it helped but no real solution. His dad used to alugh and tell me he is no longer walking guys he is killing them.
He now attends a Canadian Univ. and the coach has given him short outtings and he gets taken out if he struggles. This seems to help. He has recently had a couple great outtings. Oru guess is that he looks too far in advance instead of facing each batter and knowing help will come in early if he needs it. He probably will never be a starter and he is comfortable with that.
A 15yo who usually doesn't have the same inhibitions needs to throw even if as I suggested to his Dad is on his own away from judgemental eyes. Without seeing him it is hard to evaluate his skill level.

I've noticed that when a thrower has a target problem, the train of thought is "don't screw up by throwing "there." Then, that exact spot is where the ball goes. Focussing on where to throw the ball (instead of where not to throw the ball) helps. As well, ANY change in tempo or mechanics or postures will indead have a direct affect on ball release point, angle or timing. If there is a desired change made, then stay with it to allow the brain/body the time needed to adjust to the new changes.

quote:

Originally posted by cap_n:
I've noticed that when a thrower has a target problem, the train of thought is "don't screw up by throwing "there." Then, that exact spot is where the ball goes.

Very good observation, cap.

Perhaps he should try re-focusing. Have him pick his target, look away to a predetermined spot (ie top of his left shoe), then back to the target. I've observed many high level infielders and pitchers employ this method.

I think dad needs to stay away from a game or two and see if the problem persists.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
I think dad needs to stay away from a game or two and see if the problem persists.

..........I've been told that a time or two

Here are my thoughts based on my experience with my own 15 year old son.

1. There is definitely a mental block here. No matter what, when you play any kind of baseball, make it FUN. No instruction. If he throws like ****, just laugh it off and get another ball. This might be a good time to lay off baseball for a while. Wait for your son to come to you and say "can we play catch".

2. The Mental Game of Baseball is a must read.

3. There is probably a mechanical issue in there somewhere that he can't feel because he's lost at the moment, and you probably can't see. After you give him some time to chill out, take him to a good pitching coach. College ball players are ok, but they don't necessarily know anything about teaching. What is most important is that you find someone that can communicate effectively with your son.

4. Have him throw on his own, without you or anyone else around. I suggested this to my son when needs to work on something. He can work on his own without worrying about someone else criticising him (real or imagined). Work from 10', 20', etc.

Nitric_Acid

Thanks for the input.At the present time he has chosen not to throw a ball so i have left him alone not mentioning it until he tells me to throw. I guess he will never get it back unless he choses to conquer what ever is between the ears.
What sucks is that a kid who had all this talent has been taken away from a game that he loved to play and now he has begun to hate it, for what it has done to him.He wont even sit with us to watch a baseball game on TV. He has chosen to take up "Tennis" because he said it doesnt require throwing a baseball now how said is that. IS RUNNING AWAY FROM SOMETHING THAT YOU CANT BEAT THE RIGHT THING TO DO...

quote:

Originally posted by fivetools123:
Nitric_Acid


What sucks is that a kid who had all this talent has been taken away from a game that he loved to play and now he has begun to hate it, for what it has done to him.He wont even sit with us to watch a baseball game on TV. He has chosen to take up "Tennis" because he said it doesnt require throwing a baseball now how said is that. IS RUNNING AWAY FROM SOMETHING THAT YOU CANT BEAT THE RIGHT THING TO DO...

If he likes tennis, encourage the be-jesus out of him to play it and enjoy it. Tennis is a good game that requires the individual be a well rounded athlete.

In regards to baseball (If he still has desire to play):

-Go to the field, put a cone on first and another one on third.
-Get a bucket of balls and have him stand at home plate.
-Tell him to throw ten balls between the cones somewhere into the center field area (you stay out of the outfield).
-Move each cone five feet closer to second base.
-Throw ten more balls somewhere between the two cones into the center field area.
-Again move cones 5 feet closer to second base and repeat.

-encourage him to let it go. Tell him not to aim/guide the ball what so ever. No thinking...just turn it loose somewhere between the cones, and at a pretty good tempo. Pick up ball/fire ball, pick up ball/fire ball...

I have never seen a pitcher fully recover from this (doesnt mean they cant), but some position players have.

The above routine is used by a sports therapist/phycologist (his name escapes me right now, but I will give it to you when I remember it.)

Personally I think BB is over for him.

What's up with you guys?

How can you determine what is the matter with a player over the internet?

Fivetools,
Many pitchers who begin developing problems, sometimes first sign is loss of control and velocity. Ye, it then begins to spiral and gets into your head. But that usually happens to players who are being pressured to win (top prospects, college, pro).

There may be a developing problem that hasn't surfaced yet, accuracy in baseball is different than in tennis. Physical exams don't reveal anything.

Leave him alone, see what develops. He's 15. JMO.

Soft focus, breath through your eyelids, flex your pancreas.

jk

Take some time off. Go throw rocks at cans or skip rocks on a lake. Get this sometimes miserable game out of your head. I mean NO BASEBALL! No watching either.

re;
Its just a game.

Check that exam again. Second opinion.

DELETED-NO DEROGATORY COMMENTS ABOUT KIDS WILL BE TOLERATED.

That was uncalled for, gs.