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Strength Training During Season

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Kyle BKyle B10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by NTxDad61:
My son was doing strength training during basketball season but the baseball coach does not seem to have them do any. What is recommended for pitchers who pitch once a week? I would think at least legs. My son thinks running poles is enough.


Our guys are lifting twice per week at maintenance loads throughout the season, unless they're pretty weak, in which case, they are incrementing slowly.

They lift heavy the day after they pitch and on a weekend where they have a day off to recover from it. Mostly looks like this:

Day A:
-Squat heavy
-Bench heavy

Day B:
-Squat light
-Deadlift heavy

Plus their arm care program and whatever mobility/flexibility things they need to focus on.
RK Roger Kalinowski10+ posts
NTxDad61 definitely keep your son off the bench press. He's putting unbalanced pressure on his shoulder between the bench the bar with weights. You are also correct on the pulldowns. I think he should definitely continue to work out during the season. It's those kids that have not worked out and then try to take on a lifting program while also starting up their in-season throwing routines that usually fall apart because they are putting to much strenuous activity on their body. I am writing up some instructional stuff for my site regarding in-season bullpen and training during the season. It should be up within the next 2 weeks.
Kyle BKyle B10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Roger Kalinowski:
NTxDad61 definitely keep your son off the bench press. He's putting unbalanced pressure on his shoulder between the bench the bar with weights.


Please explain this using kinesiologically-correct terminology. What is so wrong with using the pectoral muscle groups and triceps groups that it ruins your shoulders?

The answer is: Nothing, if the bench press is performed correctly. This means elbows tucked and not winged out, no excessive bump off the chest, and correct hand positioning on the bar.
RK Roger Kalinowski10+ posts
I have been taught by both doctors and players in general to stay away from the barbell bench pressing especially in heavy amounts.

Here is a post from Eric Cressy's Website which I BELIEVE in:

As it relates to pitching, the fundamental problem with the conventional barbell bench press (as performed correctly, which it normally isn’t) is that it doesn’t really train scapular movement effectively. With push-up variations the scapulae are free to glide – just as they do when we pitch. When we bench, though, we cue athletes to lock the shoulder blades down and back to create a great foundation from which to press. It’s considerably different, as we essentially take away most (if not all) of scapular protraction.

Additionally, the closed-chain (movements when your hands or feet are in a constant, fixed position) nature of push-ups is much more shoulder friendly, even if pitching is an open-chain exercise (your hand or foot is free to move).

With dumbbell benching, we recognize that we get better range-of-motion, freer movement of the humerus (instead of being locked into internal rotation), and increased core activation – particularly if we’re doing alternating DB presses or 1-arm db presses. There is even a bit more scapular movement in these variations (even if we don’t actually coach it).

With a barbell bench press, you don’t really get any of these benefits – and it’s somewhat inferior from a range-of-motion standpoint. While it may allow you to jack up the weight and potentially put on muscle mass a bit more easily, the truth is that muscle mass here – particularly if it leads to restrictions in shoulder and scapular movement – won’t carry over to throwing the way the muscle mass in the lower half and upper back will.
Last edited by Roger Kalinowski
Kyle BKyle B10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Roger Kalinowski:
I have been taught by both doctors and players in general to stay away from the barbell bench pressing especially in heavy amounts.

As it relates to pitching, the fundamental problem with the conventional barbell bench press (as performed correctly, which it normally isn’t) is that it doesn’t really train scapular movement effectively. With push-up variations the scapulae are free to glide – just as they do when we pitch. When we bench, though, we cue athletes to lock the shoulder blades down and back to create a great foundation from which to press. It’s considerably different, as we essentially take away most (if not all) of scapular protraction.

Additionally, the closed-chain (movements when your hands or feet are in a constant, fixed position) nature of push-ups is much more shoulder friendly, even if pitching is an open-chain exercise (your hand or foot is free to move).

With dumbbell benching, we recognize that we get better range-of-motion, freer movement of the humerus (instead of being locked into internal rotation), and increased core activation – particularly if we’re doing alternating DB presses or 1-arm db presses. There is even a bit more scapular movement in these variations (even if we don’t actually coach it).

With a barbell bench press, you don’t really get any of these benefits – and it’s somewhat inferior from a range-of-motion standpoint. While it may allow you to jack up the weight and potentially put on muscle mass a bit more easily, the truth is that muscle mass here – particularly if it leads to restrictions in shoulder and scapular movement – won’t carry over to throwing the way the muscle mass in the lower half and upper back will.


This is quite literally STRAIGHT PLAGIARISM from Eric Cressey's site. I didn't even have to Google it to know that. Please attribute your sources rather than steal them.

Now, to address Eric's argument: Yes, the barbell bench press is inferior from the DB Bench Press when it comes to scapular movement. But this isn't the only reason we train, now is it? DB bench press is far easier to cheat the ROM than BB bench press and much tougher to load when the weights get heavier. It is far tougher to spot and more dangerous to fail when you don't have someone watching you.

There are pros and cons for both, but straight up saying "benching is bad because some doctor and player told me" is the height of the logical fallacy known as "appeal to authority." And additionally, you plagiarized a ton of information without attribution.
RK Roger Kalinowski10+ posts
I would gladly give credit to Eric Cressy's site. I have used and asked questions many times from it. That wasn't the point. The point of my response was to give my experience. Of course there are pro's and con's to everything and that is why we are posting in a forum (to give our opinions). This isn't a direct take on your knowledge but just what I have experienced. I had scapula problems and shoulder problems and that was one of the main focuses all rehab, doctors, and fellow pitchers acknowledged to stay away from. So although I didn't quote Eric's site this is still my belief. As you replied earlier if BB Bench is done CORRECTLY the same can be said with loading and spotting a DB Bench press. If everything was done correctly and there were no pro's and con's then this forum would be empty.

THANKS ERIC CRESSY FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!!!!
Dumbell Benching
Last edited by Roger Kalinowski
N Nick_Esposito10+ posts
quote:

Please explain this using kinesiologically-correct terminology. What is so wrong with using the pectoral muscle groups and triceps groups that it ruins your shoulders?

The answer is: Nothing, if the bench press is performed correctly. This means elbows tucked and not winged out, no excessive bump off the chest, and correct hand positioning on the bar.


The problem is there are too many people performing it wrong that it leads to joint instability. Too many kids gets into the habit of putting up as much weight, and not caring about proper form.

You are correct when you say if performed correctly, there is nothing wrong. But at the same point, bench press reduces the flexibility in the scapulas which should be retracted while performing the exercise. Doing so would give your shoulder stability. When the scapulas are not retracted, the shoulder is in charge of supporting all the weight and the bar.

Also, when using a barbell, your strong side usually compensates for your weak side, which your strong side is usually your throwing side, so you are also creating a imbalance on your joints.

Most injuries also occur when the lifter can not perform the weight so they cheat by rotating the shoulders forward and off of the bench adding more stress to the joint.

I personally do not believe pitchers should perform bench press with a bar bell. I would prefer them to use dumbbells or variations of pushups.
Last edited by Nick_Esposito
D danramosd10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Roger Kalinowski:
I have been taught by both doctors and players in general to stay away from the barbell bench pressing especially in heavy amounts.

Here is a post from Eric Cressy's Website which I BELIEVE in:

As it relates to pitching, the fundamental problem with the conventional barbell bench press (as performed correctly, which it normally isn’t) is that it doesn’t really train scapular movement effectively. With push-up variations the scapulae are free to glide – just as they do when we pitch. When we bench, though, we cue athletes to lock the shoulder blades down and back to create a great foundation from which to press. It’s considerably different, as we essentially take away most (if not all) of scapular protraction.

Additionally, the closed-chain (movements when your hands or feet are in a constant, fixed position) nature of push-ups is much more shoulder friendly, even if pitching is an open-chain exercise (your hand or foot is free to move).

With dumbbell benching, we recognize that we get better range-of-motion, freer movement of the humerus (instead of being locked into internal rotation), and increased core activation – particularly if we’re doing alternating DB presses or 1-arm db presses. There is even a bit more scapular movement in these variations (even if we don’t actually coach it).

With a barbell bench press, you don’t really get any of these benefits – and it’s somewhat inferior from a range-of-motion standpoint. While it may allow you to jack up the weight and potentially put on muscle mass a bit more easily, the truth is that muscle mass here – particularly if it leads to restrictions in shoulder and scapular movement – won’t carry over to throwing the way the muscle mass in the lower half and upper back will.


I'm with you on this one. As I can not speak as scientifically as Kyle B can and does, I can tell you from personal experience I don't lift that much chest. When i do its usually dumbell bench at 50-60%, or doing pushups on an exercise ball to work the stabilizer muscles. When i did lift more chest i bulked up, lost flexibility and had arm problems. When I would go to rehab their main focus was posterior exercises to strengthen my back side and stretch my chest out. For about the last 6 years or so I typically do 3 back sets to ever chest. Once again I'm not doctor I just speak from a pure baseball and pitching experience.
T TheUnDiscovered10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
quote:
Anyone working out the day after they pitch is overtraining.


More comedy from the baseball gods...


How is this comedy? Please explain...

I just think that the catabolic effect from pitching should be countered the next day with an appropriate anabolic rest period, so that you don't undermine your health.
Last edited by TheUnDiscovered
D danramosd10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TheUnDiscovered:
quote:
Originally posted by Bulldog 19:
quote:
Anyone working out the day after they pitch is overtraining.


More comedy from the baseball gods...


How is this comedy? Please explain...

I just think that the catabolic effect from pitching should be countered the next day with an appropriate anabolic rest period, so that you don't undermine your health.


I think i would agree with you if the pitcher had to throw the next day or even two days after. But since starting pitchers usually throw once ever 5 to 7 days (depending on the schedule) I think they just need to be 100% by the day they throw in the game. My personal workout, and I know a lot of other professional ball players have their hardest workouts the day after they pitch. Every day moving forward the workouts get a little easier to make sure we are are 100% for the next start.

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