Stride Foot

I agree 100% with your staements. Also, part of the history of baseball that is interesting with regard to Ty Cobbs approach...I read somewhere that the role of the pitcher at one time was to pitch the ball where the batter would be able to hit it. Surely the role of the Pitcher in baseball has changed. And so has the approach a hitter must take facing a pitcher throwing 88-92 MPH. You can not effectively guess your way through this. Sure, you want to understand who your adversay is (if you have the ability to study accumulated film or extensive personal experience) but a hitter must have a repeatable swing,IMHO. Not one that changes with every pitch. But, you need to make adjustments, but not with your stride! The adjustment must be with your hands, again in my vho!

IMO adjustments can be made with the stride, just not while the pitch is in the air. I don't think adjustments must be made with the hands 100% of the time. Timing is such an important part of hitting and many of the adjustments with the swing have to do with that. Without getting too far off topic already, you can have a mechanically flawless swing but if your timing is off you have no shot.

Many times IMO your timing does go bad because of your stride foot. It can get down too late, making you late on everything else, or too early, stopping all of your "running start" type of momentum. I will get into more later but the old lady is yelling at me for dinner!

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I posted this on another thread covering another topic but it does show David Wright on an inside vs. outside pitch. Star Dad notice that Wright changes the angle that the barrel takes to the ball. His hips still fire, his foot comes down basically in the same place.

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quote:

Originally posted by StarDad:
Lucky he catched that one, it's on the tip of his bat though. And the pitch is outside tailing in and mid-high. If Tom Glavine throw that pitch, he will not have a chance. That's I called "bend over""ugly" swing.

David has been "lucky" alot the last few years.

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Sorry, Im not buying your act. It is an entertaining read though.

I hope Im wrong, and you are legit... I just get the impression your 13 years old and pulling everyones chain. Later.

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Ichiro is truly a great hitter. He's one of a kind. No Coach would ever attempt to teach someone to hit like Ichiro. He has some physical tools that are hard to duplicate. His hand eye coordination as you mentioned is probably unrivaled and his incredible speed.

As far as the stride foot that is being discussed. Before the actual launch of the swing, everything that happens before that is a matter of personal style and comfort to each hitter... i.e. elbow up, elbow down, big stride, no stride, hands high, hands low, feet close together, feet wide apart, and so on.

These things only matter if they affect a player's timing of getting to the launch position on time. If Gary Sheffield, for instance with his wacky style could not get to the launch position on time then what he does would have to change. He CAN so it doesn't have to change for him. A lot of players couldn't get away with that.

Prior to last season, Alex Rodriguez had his swing rebuilt by the new Yankees hitting coach. One of the things they changed with Alex's leg kick. It had gotten to high and pronounced to where it was affecting his timing so they lowered it to a small leg kick. Obviously it worked for him. What a great year! This along with a few other adjustments like keeping his hands in for better rotation contributed to Alex's huge year.

Read the article about the changes they made in the April 30, 2007 edition of Sports Illustrated. Here's the link:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_verducci/04/24/arod0430/

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Pronk, nice clip illustrating how the stride foot stays the same.

StarDad, going back to your post yesterday saying:

"Just give some of my opinions. Hit the ball first then worry about your stride foot. If you can't hit the outside corner, try hard to hit it and see where you land your foot. If your swing is ugly, you got do something about it. Remember what is natural, don't hit like a bad programed machine."

So you say hit the ball first, then worry about the stirde foot? Why, then did you say this:

"what I think is that the hitting started with the FEET. As I told my son, start timing the pitch with your FEET up then down, then the power will start generate from turning the hip then to the waist."

So what is it? Hit the ball first or think about the feet first?

Many of your posts seem to contradict one another.

You say that Ichiro is the best hitter in the Majors, yet you criticize the David Wright clips, calling them a "Major League Bunt."

By the way, that "Major League Bunt" clip on the right resulted in a double.

Ichiro routinely leads the majors in singles. Many of them are flairs to left field. And many of them result in hits because Ichiro "just stick his arms out," which is what you said to criticize David Wright. I guess he gets "lucky" a lot as well...

StarDad, I would like to see what you have to say about this, but also remember that I started this thread to talk about the stride foot. If you want to start a thread about the "Major League Bunt-Swing," go ahead.

FIRST AND FOREMOST TO BEEMAX, U ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT DAVID WRIGHT IS ONE OF THE BEST HITTERS IN THE GAME YOUNG OR OLD... SECONDLY TO YOU STARDAD, ARE YOU ACTUALLY WATCHING THE MECHANICS OF THE SWINGS OF THESE MAJOR LEAGUE HITTERS OR ARE YOU JUST LOOKING AT THE STATISTICAL LEADERS OF EVERY SEASON. LOOK SURE ICHIRO IS A GREAT HITTER ONE OF A KIND, HE LEADS THE LEAGUE IN HITS TRUE BUT HE ALSO RUNS 3.5 OR 3.6 TO FIST BASE SO HE ALSO HAS A LOT OF IN FIELD HIT AND NOT TO MENTION THE FLARES AND BUNT SINGLES.

IM' NOT CRITICIZING ICHIRO, IM' ACTUALLY SPEAKING IN REFERENCE TO HIS TECHNIQUE. HE HAS THE ABILITY TO GET ALL SORTS OF HITS BECAUSE HE HAS GREAT TECHNIQUE HE CAN PRACTICALLY PUT THE BALL WHERE EVER HE WANTS. IF YOU ARE TO JUST LOKK AT ICHIRO TAKE DIFFERENT SWINGS HE SOMETIMES LITERALLY TAKES DIFFERENT SWINGS DEPENDING ON WHAT HE IS TRYING TO DO WITH THE BASEBALL, HE RECOGNIZES THE PITCH AND THEN DECIDES WHAT HE WANT TO DO WITH IT, LIKE A GOOD HITTER WITH TWO STRIKE FOULING OFF CLOSE PITCHES UNTIL HE GET THE ONE HE CAN DO SOME DAMAGE WITH. LASTLY LOOK AT DW'S BODY POSITION IN BOTH SWINGS IT IS PRACTICALLY THE SAME, HE JUST MADE AN ADJUSTMENT WITH HIS HANDS AND ARMS PREDICATED ON THE LOCATION OF THE PITCH.IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY YOU CAN SEE THAT HIS BODY IS STILL IN A GREAT POWER POSITION AND MOST OF ALL HE DROVE THROUGH THAT BALL, THATS WHY EVEN THOUGH THAT PITCH WAS A BALL HE STILL DROVE IT THE OTHER WAY FOR A DOUBLE... DAVID WRIGHT AND ALEX RODRIGUEZ HAVE SOME OF THE SAME MECHANICS... JUST COMPARE

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Stardad

I think it is time for you to CAN IT and go home !!!!

STARDAD, YES UP AND DOWN IT WAS A STRIKE BUT LEFT TO RIGHT IT IS A BALL THAT BALL DOES NOT CROSS BACC OVER THE PLATE IN ORDER TO BE A STRIKE. SECONDLY DAVID WRIGHT DOES NOT HIT THAT BALL OFF THE VERY END OF HIS BARREL, UNLESS U ARE TELL ME THAT DAVID WRIGHT IS JUST THAT STRONG TO HIT THAT PITCH FOR A DOUBLE.

WE ARE NOT TALKING A BOUT A BLOOPER THAT BALL WAS LINED TO THE OPPOSITE FIELD AND HOW CAN U SAY THAT THE SWING ON THE RIGHT HE IS IN A ULGY SWING POSITION WHEN IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY TO BOTH SWINGS HIS BODY POSITION IS THE SAME IN BOTH SWINGS... WHY???? UM... OH YEAH THE BALL IS ON THE OUTER HALF OF THE PLATE. DID YOU LOOK AT ALEX RODRIGUEZ AND HIS SWING MECHANICS ARE HIS AND DAVID WRIGHTS NOT SIMILAR... IS AROD NOT A GREAT HITTER? PLUS HOW CAN YOU COMPARE THE HITTING MECHANICS OF TWO DIFFERENT STYLE HITTERS THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT PLAYERS.

ICHIRO IS TRYING TO GET ON BASE WHILE DAVID WRIGHT IS TRYING TO DRIVE IN RUNS... SO I CAN EASLY SAY ICHIRO HAS A ULGY SWING AND HAS BAD BALANCE BECAUSE HE DOES NOT HIT FOR ALOT OF POWER... BUT THAT WOULD BE FOOLISH TO SAY JUST AS TO SAY DAVID WRIGHT IS NOT A VERYGOOD HITTER."DONT HATE WHAT YOU DONT UNDERSTAND"

StarDad

You say "only you guys try and emulate their hitting." Who are "you guys" that you refer to? Pro hitters? Is it bad to try and emulate pro hitters?

You also said in a previous thread:
"I never played baseball and never coached other kids. I am just that kind of person want to do everything by myself."

I appreciate that you seem to think outside of the box, but answer me this: What makes you, who never played and has never taught anyone, worthy of generalizing everyone on here (some of whom play or coach baseball for a living)?

You also say:

"That's why as an outsider, I see what you don't see."

And what is it that you see? I take this as a major insult. Are you saying that because you have no baseball experience, that somehow gives you an advantage over those who do? IMO that is laughable.

Another quote by you:

"Have you ever watch the movie "Matrix"? You guys living in the "Matrix", so you don't know the real world of "hitting"."

Again, you refer to "you guys," and the so-called "real world" of hitting. What is this real world you speak of? A world where hitters stride to the location of the pitch? A world where David Wright's "bend over ugly swing" somehow results in a double?

I play baseball for a living, and some on here have a lot more experience than you do, yet you continue to make posts that say that our evidence is wrong and our opinions are off. If you have some evidence for any of your theories working other than your son's triple totals, please show us. I would love to see some, otherwise IMO you have ZERO credibility.

5 TOOLS:

PLEASE TAKE YOUR CAPS LOCK OFF!

Private Hitting Lesson $50
Easton Stealth $299
Listening to Stardad.... priceless

as far as the entertainment value.

Ichiro does what a leadoff hitter is supposed to do...get on base. His approach obviously works very well. He actually has pretty tremendous power for a guy his size, if you've ever watch him turn on a ball. If the Mariners batted him third you would see a totally different approach. He would certainly pull the ball much more, and with more authority. His slugging % numbers would jump quite a bit. He's that good.

StarDad, any reponse to my previous post?

Beemax - Stardad is going bye bye

Okay then

IMO there are umpteen ways to stride. It all depends on what feels comfortable as a timing mechanism. If you get your stride foot down on time and you are in a good position to hit, that's the most important thing. I really don't care what the hitter looks like before his foot gets down. Anything the hitter does before the foot gets down is his style, IMO. As an instructor I won't try to change that style unless it is putting the hitter in a poor position to hit.

Chipper Jones taps his foot back first. Rafael Palmeiro did as well. That worked for them.

A-Rod pumps his knee. Juan Gonzalez really pumped his knee. That worked for them.

It doesn't really matter how the stride is done as long as the foot gets down on time. Oh, and the stride foot always comes down in the same spot, no matter the location of the pitch

If you think otherwise, consult MLB swing clips and read "The Science of Hitting."

beemax,
Just speculation, but if a hitter is guessing at location or even type of pitch, he might stride differently. Also if a hitter is specifically trying to go the other way there's often a tendency to stride more closed than normal. This is definitely a different situation than changing stride location due to reacting to a pitch which is what you were talking about.

I'd like to bring up hip turn in response to pitch location. Can hitters really turn their hips differently when reacting to pitch location? One of the things I think Bonds did well was to generally drive his hips toward right center and only continue the hip turn further in reaction in response to an inside pitch and as part of his follow through. Once again, just speculation on my part.

BTW, one of the best examples of a guy who strides the same every time is Garrett Anderson. He always steps out a bit, yet he somehow manages to hit outside pitches and hit off lefty specialists.

beemax,

I'm just curious, did you ever follow up and buy a copy of Ted Williams' "Science of Hitting" from Rare Sports Films?

It would be extremely valuable for this discussion thread alone, plus you get to see lots of close-ups and slo-mo of Williams' swing mechanics, including stride of course, as well as many other players.

If it slipped your mind, you owe it to yourself--believe me! We're talkin' $30 for a dvd that you'll watch many, many times in order to dig out all of the Splendid Splinter's distilled wisdom.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
beemax,
Just speculation, but if a hitter is guessing at location or even type of pitch, he might stride differently. Also if a hitter is specifically trying to go the other way there's often a tendency to stride more closed than normal. This is definitely a different situation than changing stride location due to reacting to a pitch which is what you were talking about.

I'd like to bring up hip turn in response to pitch location. Can hitters really turn their hips differently when reacting to pitch location? One of the things I think Bonds did well was to generally drive his hips toward right center and only continue the hip turn further in reaction in response to an inside pitch and as part of his follow through. Once again, just speculation on my part.

BTW, one of the best examples of a guy who strides the same every time is Garrett Anderson. He always steps out a bit, yet he somehow manages to hit outside pitches and hit off lefty specialists.

Chipper Jones is another guy who steps out, and he does this on both sides of the plate. He stands relatively close to the plate as well.

CADad,

I understand where you are coming from, but if a hitter is guessing location, why would they stride in or out? This would only change their swing. In bp, hitters never stride in to go the other way or out to pull the ball, they just stride in the same place every time. you should practice the way you play, right?

IMO good hitters know where they are comfortable standing in the box. If they feel like they are getting beat on the inside corner, they will back off the plate a bit. Just the opposite, if they are getting beat away, or know that the pitcher is going to throw away, they will move up on the plate. Notice that I mentioned nothing about the stride here. To me, it doesn't make sense to stride to the location of the pitch, even if you know where the location is going to be.

I have a fairly square stance to the pitcher, and I stride square. My whole reasoning behind not believing in strding to location is this: if I stride towards the away location, I am closing off my stance. If i stride out for the inside pitch, I open up too early. I think the swing starts from the ground up, and if you all of a sudden change what you do on the ground (by closing or opening your stance according to what you "think" the location is going to be), the rest of your swing will change.

I believe that the swing does not change depending on the location. The only thing that changes with location is where you make contact in your swing. If you start closing or opening your stance for a pitch, you create too many inconsistencies in your swing, IMO.

You mention Garrett Anderson and how he bails a bit in his stride, yet still manages to hit the outside pitch well. That is a great example of why you don't change your stride. He does what feels comfortable and he puts himself in a position in relation to the plate that he can still have plate coverage.

Same thing with Chipper.

As for hip turn, why don't we start a new thread on it?

THANKS FOR THE SUGGESTION, FOR ME TO TAKE OFF MY CAPS LOCK BUT THATS MY SIGNATURE. LIKE MANNY PIMPIN A HOMERUN AND WATCHING IT UNTIL IT LEAVES THE PARK... YEAH SOMETHING LIKE THAT. ON ANOTHER NOTE VERY WELL SAID TO STARDAD, WHAT WAS HE TALKING ABOUT????

quote:

Originally posted by Pronk:
I posted this on another thread covering another topic but it does show David Wright on an inside vs. outside pitch. Star Dad notice that Wright changes the angle that the barrel takes to the ball. His hips still fire, his foot comes down basically in the same place.

Notice how his back knee points in the direction of the flight of the ball. The hips can only rotate that far when making a proper swing for power to all fields.

beemax,
Wasn't trying to imply it was the right way to hit. I was saying that it may happen at times. One takes a different swing when trying to hit and run than when trying to drive the ball.

5 tools,
Leaving the caps on is considered poor etiquette. It is just plain rude. It might be a good idea to find another signature or people will just block your posts.

mic,
The amount of hip turn looks different to me. It looks like the follow through on the more inside pitch may be what make them turn further, but they are turning more.

CADad,

I wasn't trying ot imply that you were saying it was the right way to hit. I understand that you were just speculating to augment the thread.

I agree with you 100% that a hitter will take a different swing on a hit and run then when trying to drive the ball (if they are trying to execute properly, that is), but it doesn't change where the stride location is.

My whole argument is that if you are planning on striding to where the location is, you have no chance to hit. By the time you notice the location and get your foot down, the ball will have passed you by.

Now if a hitter thinks a pitch is going to be away, in theory they can step towards the outside pitch if they want. IMO this will change the hitter's swing, and probably not in a good way. If it happens to be situational hitting, such as a hit and run, I don't believe the stride changes.

I have been taught to think about keeing the ball out of the middle of the field and out of the air ona hit and run. So when I get a hit and run, I try and drive the ball through the 4 hole or the 5.5 hole. I don't think about my stride in that situation.

In my previous post I said that I don't believe the swing changes depending on location. Without getting into semantics here, I was just stating that when it is not an execution situation (ie. hit and run, move the runner over, etc.), but rather a situation where you drive the ball, the hitter should not change his mechanics based on loacation. All that changes is the point where you make conatact, not how you stride.

beemax,
Makes sense.

About the hit and run, I'd figure that in general you'd prefer to go through the 5.5 hole in your case, but are you saying that you have to work with the pitch that you get and if you get an inside pitch then you'd try and hit it hard through the 4 hole rather than trying to force it the other way?

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
mic,
The amount of hip turn looks different to me. It looks like the follow through on the more inside pitch may be what make them turn further, but they are turning more.

IMO, the hands should be in front of the bellybutton at contact and the outside pitch should be struck much deeper in the zone and the inside pitch should be made earlier. Bellybutton should be pointing at the pitcher on a pitch down the middle, 1st for right field, 2nd for right center, ss for left center, 3b for left field. This would indicate that the hips turn differently on any given pitch, but even on an inside pitch that you want to take oppo, the bellybutton and back knee should only turn as far as the desired direction of ball flight for maximum power.

Mic,

Can we move that topic to the hip rotation thread please?

quote:

Originally posted by beemax:
Mic,

Can we move that topic to the hip rotation thread please?

Sorry! Just responding to the hips comment he made to me. I agree that the stride should land in the same place each time. I do believe the stride foot can be down well after release though and can be timed for off speed pitches, especially for those with high leg kicks or shorter strides.