Subjective Hitting Statistics

You could have two hitters on the same team where the numbers are about the same. But one hits all pitching consistently while the other hits poorly against quality pitching and loads up the numbers on weak pitching. One of these players has potential to go to the next level. The other doesn't. It's why coaches and scouts look at mechanics rather than numbers. It's why a coach has to go on more than numbers when making a lineup.

Also, depending on where they are in the lineup, they most likely will be pitched differently.  

If you are talking HS, the players who usually do not start tend to get most of their PT/AB's against inferior opponents or when the game is already decided and lesser pitchers are brought in.  So, it is not uncommon for some non-starters to have better stats than starters, even when there are clear ability/skill level gaps.

Then, there is sample size.

Why do you ask?

Originally Posted by phillyinNJ:

....are hitting statistics still subjective if comparing with individual players on the same team since they faced the same pitcher?

 

It depends on which stat’s you’re talking about. Not all stats are subjective no matter who you’re looking at. Of course that’s assuming the scorer is scoring everything that takes place and the statistician is using all of those things.

 

FI, a plate appearance is completely objective, if the scorer gets the right player’s name associated to that PA, and if that PA gets input into the team database. So it’s objective unless there’s a poor job being done of scoring or there’s hanky panky going on. Since there’s no judgment being made on anyone’s part, it’s a subjective stat as opposed to say a hit.

 

In general though, ASSUMING the scoring is consistent from game to game, comparing players on the same team is generally valid. There’s just no way to completely equate every stat in baseball because the game isn’t static from moment to moment. That’s why averages and ratios are used. Everything is only the best approximation possible. There will always be some jerk who claims there’s a difference between the numbers of player “A” and “B” if everything is exactly the same but the time of day or temperature they were generated. The game isn’t played in a controlled vacuum, and everyone has to accept that.

 

The real problems come when someone tries to compare Player “A” on team “1” with player “B” on team “2”. The two teams will have been scored by different people, and unlike in the ML, there’s no on looking to make sure the scoring is being done according to the rules, let alone the huge biases that can get into it in amateur ball.

In my experience as a baseball dad, coaches prefer the eyeball test over HS statistics due to the uneven level of competition.  Specifically with hitting, the quality of contact is more highly valued than hitting average. 

Just talking normal stats...hits, 2B, 3B, HR...

 

just wanted to see if they would be considered subjective if comparing with other players on the same team who played the same games.

 

 

It doesn't matter who is pitching.  Any statistic that requires that somebody indicates what is a hit and what is an error will be subjective. I think that for amateur ball at least ROE should be added to OBP. Then you would have a stat that was immune from incompetence and/or personal prejudice from the scorekeeper. 

without more context, you'll continue to get shotgun replies

 

Originally Posted by phillyinNJ:

Just talking normal stats...hits, 2B, 3B, HR...

 

just wanted to see if they would be considered subjective if comparing with other players on the same team who played the same games.

 

I think you’re using the wrong word. It seems to me you’re talking about whether or not the numbers for players on the same team would be valid for comparison purposes, which they generally are, as long as the scoring is consistent.

<input id="mac_address" type="hidden" value="" />

Gnats
You got it...my apologies for the confusion. 

Thanks!

You will rarely have enough data against a given pitcher, at any level, to compare two hitters just on that data.

 

If you have enough games vs common opponents, you will eventually get enough data to compare players reasonably well, as the differences in opposition talent will even out over a large sample if the players are used similarly.  This would be the case, for instance, at the pro level where guys are playing 100+ games vs a dozen or so teams a season.

 

At the HS level or college level, it's going to be much harder to make completely objective comparisons that are statistically valid, because the sample sizes won't be there.