Submarine pitcher

Do a search on the topic here, I seem to recall a good thread on the subject a while back.  Some of the issues brought up...

Velocity - don't know what your son's is, but regardless of arm angle, the better D1's typically have high benchmarks.

Coaching - it is hard to find good coaches that have worked with sub guys and, in fact, even at the college level, often the coaches don't know what to do with them. 

I do also recall someone saying something to the affect of - same mechanics should apply, just tilt the body.  I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

Unless extremely extraordinary, most submarine pitchers do not do well after they leave HS.

He should use his skill to get into college, and not turn away those that show that interest.

gk,

Your son might consider attending a prospect camp at one of the DI's in which he has interest. By doing so, he might be able to "kill" at least two "birds." Before choosing to do so, ask around and pick one that has a really good reputation if there are several from which to choose.

First of all, the pitching instructors there can work with him; and, chances are, if there is someone in your area who works with sidearm/submarine pitchers, they'll likely know and be able to give him contact information.

Additionally, it'll give them an opportunity to see him throw. If they end up considering him a prospect, they'll let him know. If not, they'd be good, objective sources of evaluation of the college level they think appropriate for him.

Before closing, I'll share an observation. Like a lot of contributors to these boards, I've watched a lot of college baseball over the last 10 years; most of it at the DI level. While the average DI pitching staff is made up of approximately 15 pitchers, it's rare for more than one or two at the outside to throw sidearm or below. Of those few who do, most are used as spot relievers; so, they tend to see limited innings over the course of a season.

There's no question that the really good ones are a valuable weapon to have in the pen; but, they tend to be just that...really good and they come out of the pen.

Having shared this, I'll also be the first to say that there are important exceptions to every generality. Here's hoping that your son is good enough to find his way to the situation he desires.

Best of luck to him!

gk,

Excellent question.

My two cents....I agree 100% with Prepster's, TPM and cabbagedad's comments.  I would add that your college baseball recruiting effort and process may need to be different just as a submarine pitchers delivery. 

Most college recruiters are looking for starters.  Those college pitching recruits that rise to the top become college starters.  Others become relievers, spot relievers, mid-week starters, mid-week relief,  weekend setup guy, weekend closer, etc....  Your son's skill set doesn't fit that traditional recruit-a-college-pitcher-starter mold, and he may have to do something else to get noticed because he would be viewed as a relief pitcher from day 1.  He may have other attributes (academics?) that help him stand out, but I think you're going to have to take a different recruiting approach because there aren't college submarine starters.   I hope that makes sense.

For example, I used to coach a young man who is currently a local high school senior catcher.  Talented & smart kid, and he can play just about any position.  He is good at just about every position but not exceptional at any one position.  His dream is to play D1 college baseball.  He decided to send some college coaches a recruiting video as a submarine pitcher.  It worked.  He visited the school, met the coach and got a preferred walk-on opportunity to a D1 school he was already accepted to with an academic scholarship.  Like I said, smart kid.

Good luck!  Please let us know if you have any further questions.

I love submarine pitchers, I was one in college. I would be intersted in working your son out for our program, Lemoyne Owen College, were I am the pitching coach. I will be able to help him develope.

From what ive seen every college team has one or two of these guys. They are not heavily recruited (unless they go 88 or better) because they have limited options, are relievers out of the gate and will see limited action, and generally will get little to no money. With that said, have son fine a place where he will be happy, able to suceed academically, and has the chance to keep on playing. He will have a great experience if he is realistic about where he fits in the framework of the game.From experience, finding the right fit in all areas should be your goal Good luck

I tend to agree with HighCheese in that I have seen quite a number of these guys in DII bullpens. My son's team hasn't had one for a couple of years but did in the two years prior to that. Seems like the teams that have them usually have one specialist, maybe two that are submariners.

The kids I know who submarine in college were told switching to submarine and becoming a successful situational pitcher is how they will stay on the team. Do colleges recruit submariners?

My son had a submariner on his team in HS. This kid was a decent pitcher as a reliever and lead the team in strike outs. But the coach rued the days when he had to him for more than one time through the lineup. If they saw him a second or third time he was rocked.

Even at that he had several D3's interested, so they do get recruited. He chose not to play in college. So after his freshman year he regrets it. In the fall of his sophomore year he tries out for the school he is at, a D2 in Florida. He is the last player cut. They kept another Submariner who was just a little faster. He now regrets not playing the summer before college and trying out his Freshman year when he had a couple of more miles an hour on his fastball.

The closer/goto guy on my son's acc team for two years was a submariner.  To get there he proved himself in college summer leagues and a so cal JC to prove he could get college hitters out.  His submarine fastball could get as high as 82-83 and had a great pickoff move. He was drafted and is still playing. 

A boy my son played with went to a big D1 school as a regular thrower. After a bad freshman season, they changed him to a submarine pitcher. Now in his senior season, he's back to a regular pitcher. We are curious as to why, but haven't kept up with the boy. 

Midlo2012's son is a submariner in College.  He was converted as a college freshman.  You may want to reach out to him.

There is an outstanding submariner coming out of Venice High in FL, he is committed to Miami, only throws about 80, but I think he only gave up 1 earned run all year, and they used him a lot.  i think they are in the final four for states right now.

So, there is hope, just get out there and get seen!

Thank you for all your support for my son.  Well he has had a great year pitching for his high school (Huntley red raiders in Illinois) they are in the top 20 in the state they have gone 26-5 over all and my son has pitched no hitters in the game he has been the mid-reliever and closer and did awesome his pitching coach wants to work with him in the off season on days he doesn't have travel and wants to teach him both pitching styles to trick hitters and to help him gain more velocity he now pitches 80mph which was faster than in the winter at 78 so I'm so excited for him.

Our regionals start Wednesday GO HUNTLEY!

It used to be true that recruiters were only looking for 6 foot tall guys that can throw 90's.  And it was true that they took guys that didn't do well as starters and converted them to submariners or sidearmers out of the bullpen. I find it hard to believe this is the only way to become one of these pitchers on a team(to drop down once there).

We've been going to D1 games now for three years (son is a sidearmer reliever for a D1) and every team has at least one of these guys on their team.  Teams like Coastal, UNC, South Carolina, etc.  They can turn the game around.  Trick is, they have to be effective beyond high school to be recruited for that role.  I mean on showcase teams against guys that have already signed.  Maybe a summer collegiate team.  Leftyside flew under the D1 radar until he got a chance to play in the State Games and faced D1 hitters (and struck them out!).

This is what we saw that they were looking for from a sidearm or submarine pitcher.  He gets other D1 recruits out.  Doesn't have to be a strikeout, in fact is usually a ground ball which means he has to trust his infield. He has to field his position well.  Because some of those ground balls will come right at him. He has to have great command because umpires aren't as used to seeing the pitch so hitting the same spot, proving his command will give him an edge toward it being called a strike. He has to work with his catcher.  They have a harder time with sidearmers and subby's because the ball either has alot of movement or drops or both (I call those his nasties). His catcher has to learn to "stick" it, or not let his glove carry downward. He also has to have fortitude because he will be brought in when it is a tie game with runners on first and third and one out. He has to understand that he will often get up and throw three pitches for a strikeout to end the inning or even just one to get a double play and he will be done for the day. 

If he can do all these things, my advice is not to listen to anyone about not being able to play D1.  These days, coaches know how valuable it is to have an effective sidearmer or submariner on staff.  Here's a link to some articles on submarine and sidearm pitchers at Coastal Carolina...

http://www.orangeandwhite.com/...lief-pitchers-makin/

And here's a video of Leftyside fielding his postion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvPUryop4B4

I would post a video of him striking out a Coastal Carolina player this Spring but I don't own the video

I find it hard to believe coaches haven't woken up to recruiting guys that throw this way effectively. 

Hi everyone...Im a former pro pitcher from Canada and have started a website on sidearm/submarine pitching   www.sidearmnation.com   hope site can be of some interest! If have questions please feel free to email me at info@sidearmnation.com

Geoff

Thanks for supporting the art of submarine pitching.  My son just turned 13 yo and is going into 8th grade but has been pitching submarine style for over a year.  He was discovered last year by a former ANGELS and White Sox pitcher here in S. Florida who said he was a natural Submarine Pitcher.  I believe he got the ability from my grandfather who pitched submarine style in Windsor, Canada in the 1920's and1930's and from my pitching style in the 1970's in North Palm Beach.  The fact that his last name is Walters ( not sure if any relation to Bucky Walters)  may have something to do with it.  He can pitch one inning over the top and them go to submarine.  He is currently a closer for a High School JV summer team where he averages 5-9 pitches per inning (Submarine) with no walks and no his against his nasty slider.  JV coach is upset he's only going into 8th grade.  We're going to stick with improving both styles and work on going under and over  in the same inning.  Thanks ERIC

Eric,

Did your son end up at Cypress?

Hey everyone Sidearmnation.com is pleased to announce that on January 10-11 in Phoenix Arizona we are going to have a sidearm/submarine pitching camp, with current/former MLB sidewinders as instructors:

Jon Huizinga - Brewers Minor Leaguer

Jeff Innis- Former NY Mets

Roy Smith- Former Cleveland Indians

Ben Rowen- Texas Rangers…couple more TBA

http://www.azbaseballnetwork.c...IDEARMNATIONCAMP.pdf

Let me know if have any questions:  info@sidearmnation.com

Geoff 

We're at Cooper.  Baseball wise Flannigan was a better choice, but my son is a high academic kid, so we felt Cooper was a better choice in that regard.

I'm sending you a PM...