Substitution rules

My understanding (but don't take this as gospel) is this:

1. If you relieve your starting pitcher but he remains in the game at another position, he can go back to pitching one time. If you relieve a reliever but he stays in the game, he cannot return to the mound.

2. If you remove your starting pitcher from the game completely it's just like any other position. In high school he can re-enter the game once, but in this case I don't think he can go back to the mound.

3. I believe you can use any legal substitute as a courtesy runner, but once a player courtesy runs once, he's tied to that player (either pitcher or catcher) for the entire game unless he enters the game. In other words, you have to use different runners for the pitcher and catcher, and you have to continue using the same courtesy runner as long as they remain a legal sub. If a courtesy runner enters the game you may then use a different legal sub as the courtesy runner, but now that player is tied to the pitcher/catcher as long as he remains a legal sub. No legal subs=pitcher/catcher running for himself.

Thanks. I am really limited because of having only 14 kids in the program. Only 29 boys in the school!

Well hopefully one of the actual umpires on the board will chime in if I'm mistaken on any of my points.

The pitcher may be pulled and returned to the mound once an inning as long as he stays in the game. If he leaves the line-up he may return once but not pitch. The CR is for the pitcher and catcher, must be someone that hasn't been in the game and can't run for both F1 and F2. You can use a different runner each time and they can't enter the game in the same inning as they have been a CR. Being a CR does not affect his ability to be a proper sub. A DH can be used for ANY player not just the pitcher. The DH can be subbed for and has reentry just like any other starter. The DH and the person he is DHing for are tied to that position.

Are you playing under NFHS rules. If so, you should get a rule book and go over these as they are a little complex.
Pitchers can be removed and come back and pitch once per inning as long as the removal isn't due to having more than 3 charged conferences in which case he is done for the game. Substitution rules also apply so the pitcher has to remain in the game in some capacity to make this practical.

you can CR for the pitcher or catcher only. Has to be some one who has not been in the game in any other capacity. The same CR cannot run for the pitcher and the catcher. The CR cannot be a substitute in the half inning in which he is a CR (unless there is an injury and no other player available).

Like I said, get a rule book.

Southern man check into the Indiana rules about the courtesy runner. Several years ago when I was coaching in Kentucky we played a team from Indiana and the rule then they didn't allow them.

Found this out when we were playing at their place and my catcher got on. I called time and my courtesy runner jogging out and my catcher was going to the dugout. I walked down the line to where the plate ump could hear me and I said "courtesy for my catcher". He looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language then realized I didn't know about the rule. He explained they didn't allow them and I put my catcher back on base.

It may have changed and Indiana allows courtesy runners now but that's the way it was a few years ago.

Your school should supply you with a rulebook, I can send you an electronic one, and definitely check to see if your state allows CRs.

I plan on getting a rule book. I was talking with the baseball coaches here in the building about some of the rules that are different now; I have been out of the high school baseball scene over 20 years now. They all had different angles and I found this site.
I want to use one player as the cr for my catcher; I do not need one for my pitchers. This person would be my only sub left on the bench. I do not have a JV to draw from.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
If he leaves the line-up he may return once but not pitch.

Are you sure, Mike? If so, what's the rule cite?

I can't wait to get my rule book!

quote:

Originally posted by yawetag:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
If he leaves the line-up he may return once but not pitch.

Are you sure, Mike? If so, what's the rule cite?

All starters have one reentry, the only difference with a pitcher is when he returns he can't pitch.

quote:

The CR cannot be a substitute in the half inning in which he is a CR (unless there is an injury and no other player available).

That's interesting. I was the CR one day for our catcher at first base. It was late in the game (probably the 7th). Batter hit a ground ball on the infield and I was thrown out at second. The batter reached 1st. I'm not sure I even made it back to first base headed for the dugout when our coach made the substitution and had me pinch run for the guy at first.

Nobody had a problem with it at all. I don't think our coach was sure if it was allowed, but he asked immediately after the previous play had ended..

It was kinda funny...

I didn't know that rule either. I can't remember it ever coming into play in a game I witnessed, but it does make sense.

When MST first posted, I thought "same inning?" I know I've seen a kid PR and then go in and play defense in the following half. When I read Navy Ump's post clarifying "half inning" it made more sense.

Sometimes I wonder if they should just play straight up. Make the catcher's run and if your pitcher is good enough to hit, make him run the bases. Then I sit through a 2:45 minute game WITH CR's and shut the bleep up.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:

Sometimes I wonder if they should just play straight up. Make the catcher's run and if your pitcher is good enough to hit, make him run the bases. Then I sit through a 2:45 minute game WITH CR's and shut the bleep up.

In my experience, use of a courtesy runner rarely speeds up the game.

quote:

Originally posted by Emanski's Heroes:
My understanding (but don't take this as gospel) is this:

3. ...... you have to continue using the same courtesy runner as long as they remain a legal sub. If a courtesy runner enters the game you may then use a different legal sub as the courtesy runner, but now that player is tied to the pitcher/catcher as long as he remains a legal sub. No legal subs=pitcher/catcher running for himself.

As long as any player on the bench has not been in the game, you may use him as a courtesy runner. But you could use Johnny as a CR for the catcher in the second inning, then use Billy as a CR for the catcher in the third inning, and then use Johnny as a CR for the catcher in the fifth inning. Once used as a CR, there is no need to continue using that same player as the CR. But you are correct he cannot be used as a CR for the pitcher.

I hope I am making this clear. You do not have to use the same CR for either the pitcher or the catcher every time. You can use anyone who has not been in the game.

quote:

In my experience, use of a courtesy runner rarely speeds up the game.

Interesting, I've wondered about that.

Jimmy I should introduce you to our HS softball team's catcher, who does run the bases. I've timed her from last out to actually appearing ready to go and it ranges from ~65 seconds to her record this weekend of ~109 seconds.

I would assume if this happened in baseball, you guys would send a search party.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:

quote:

In my experience, use of a courtesy runner rarely speeds up the game.

Interesting, I've wondered about that.

Jimmy I should introduce you to our HS softball team's catcher, who does run the bases. I've timed her from last out to actually appearing ready to go and it ranges from ~65 seconds to her record this weekend of ~109 seconds.

I would assume if this happened in baseball, you guys would send a search party.

A problem with courtesy runners, with many teams, is that the CR has not been pre-determined or has spaced out his role in the game.

1. Coach: "Courtesy runner for my catcher, ump."

2. Wait while he chooses one.

3. Wait for that one to get his helmet and get on the field.

4. Wait for the catcher, who apparently thinks he can't leave until the CR comes out slaps his hand,to get off the field.

5. Wait for catcher at the end of the half inning who didn't use the time to get ready...he's been on the bench BSing with his teammates instead.

In my opinion the CR is used more to compensate for a slow catcher than it is to speed up the game. That's not the purpose.

Jimmy I've seen that done exactly as you describe it and it drives me nuts. I got my guys up and ready to hit and we're still waiting around on the catcher. I always have my courtesy runners ready to go as soon as the ball is dead. I put my courtesy runners on the lineup card to try and help speed things up. My catchers know they are to be out there and ready. If my catcher is the third out my backup is ready in full gear to go warm my pitcher up.

I take pride in not wasting time.

Our HS baseball team assigns CR for pitcher and catcher like they are any other player in the lineup.

When the pitcher goes up to hit, the CR also has a helmet on just like he's going up to hit. Same with catcher. No complaints there.

Most umpire's will say "19 running for pitcher" and be done with it, but the odd umpire will spend 2 minutes documenting this fact after searching for line-up, pen and I don't know what else. I've never really understood why this is necessary.

Softball umpires will write the equivalent of "War & Peace" but this isn't a softball forum.

I was a catcher (& pitcher). I take personal offense to any catcher who isn't trying to make their pitcher better. You do that by being ready, getting them in a groove, calling a good game, framing pitches, making the umpire your friend and protecting him from every wild pitch, giving him a good look at every pitch, working hard behind the dish, sacrificing your offense to ensure you do all of the above, etc.

When you run for these kids and they are still lazy, that just chaps my butt.

It was always interesting for me because I was both the courtesy runner and the back-up catcher. So normally I kept my shinguards on during the game, but when the catcher was up, I would have them like half-undone unless I was actually in the bullpen. Then I'd go run and still be expected to warm up the pitcher if the catcher wasn't ready...

I can remember one time I was actually in the bullpen when our catcher got on base. Our coach had me come back from the bullpen, take the gear off, and go run...

If the CR isn't right out there, I will tell the coach I will get him in a pitch or two when he is ready. I will on occasion throw out that the CR is a speedup rule, not a wait forever for the player rule.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:
Most umpire's will say "19 running for pitcher" and be done with it, but the odd umpire will spend 2 minutes documenting this fact after searching for line-up, pen and I don't know what else. I've never really understood why this is necessary.

What don't you understand? A good umpire keeps track of all substitutions to ensure that illegal players aren't being used.

It shouldn't take two minutes, but he should be marking all courtesy runners.

Some of them are much more efficient at it than others.

The more efficient umpires spend 10-15 seconds and are basically done by the time the runner gets to the base. I've got no problem with that.

Other guys spend a lot longer, causing a noticeable delay. It seems to defeat the purpose of "speeding the game up". If it takes you two minutes to make a note on the lineup card, something is wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:
If it takes you two minutes to make a note on the lineup card, something is wrong.

I agree. However, I'd prefer he get it right.

When I fold my lineups up so it fits in my lineup wallet, I write on the back, F1-CR F2-CR Then all I have to do is write the number beside the right player.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:

quote:

Originally posted by yawetag:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
If he leaves the line-up he may return once but not pitch.

Are you sure, Mike? If so, what's the rule cite?

All starters have one reentry, the only difference with a pitcher is when he returns he can't pitch.

OK, Mike. I can't find a place in the rule book that says no starting pitcher can return to pitch after re-entering.

I see stipulations for too many meetings, the reliever needing more than 8 warm-up pitches, and not pitching to one batter. All of these prevent the pitcher from returning. However, I see nothing that says ALL starting pitchers can't return if they're benched and then re-enter later in the game.

Is it possible this is a Maryland addition to the rules?

No,not MD rule, wrong rulebook. Or at least I can't find it.

I guess, I was told by the baseball coach at the school I teach at, in Indiana we do not have the CR rule for either the catcher or th pitcher. Nonetheless, I have fun reading all the responses.

Courtesy runners are by state adoption. I believe Oregon has done away with theirs as well.

quote:

I see stipulations for too many meetings, the reliever needing more than 8 warm-up pitches, and not pitching to one batter. All of these prevent the pitcher from returning. However, I see nothing that says ALL starting pitchers can't return if they're benched and then re-enter later in the game.

Provided the pitcher wasn't replaced due to the aforementioned; too many conferences or his substitute took too many warm ups, he can return with his re-entry rights and pitch. For Fed games there is no rule that precludes him from doing so that I know of.
There is, however, an exception. If the pitcher is substituted for in the top of the first inning (when his team is at bat) and he doesn't re-enter to face the first batter in the bottom of the first inning he may then re-enter later but not to pitch.