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Suggestions/Opinions Wanted

UF UT FanaticMember
My son is an average-sized freshman. Catches, pitches & plays 2B. He decided to focus on just baseball for high school and enter the off-season program.

The varsity coach ran the every-other-day workouts/practices. He would send the freshman to the bullpen or cage & spent most of his time with the upper classmen. The fresham hit off a tee for him, did long toss and played two 2-inning scrimmages. My son had 2 live at bats, with a K and a single (only one to get a hit in this scrimmage). Felt he made some very good blocks behind the plate & had a very nice on-time throw to 2nd that was bobbled. He never got to pitch.

Anyhow, the coach cuts 12 of 16 (my son is one of them) from the program and tells them they cannot come back at the end of January to try-out. It's a 5A school & he claims he'll have 25-30 freshman trying out and that those he cut don't have the strength & speed to compete.

My son played on an incoming freshman team this summer that 20-25 tried out for & he was the fourth-best hitter & had the 2nd best OBP. He played on a select team last Spring with two of those with "strength & speed" (72-75 mph, son throws around 65) and had one of the lowest ERAs. As I said, the varsity HS coach never saw him pitch.

Now, I know my son isn't the best player in the freshman class. But, he is certainly at least average if not above average and I'm confident the coach would see this if he compared all of the catchers/pitchers head-to-head.

Because of this, we met with the coach. You could tell he wasn't going to change his mind within the first five minutes of the meeting. In the meeting, I pointed out a lot of what is mentioned above, as well as the fact that he makes straight As in all advanced classes & has no behavioral problems. He's a brand new coach from a school that's 30 miles away, so I ask if he's seen any of these football/basketball players play. He says he has, but there's no way because I KNOW they're not playing right now. I mention my son's pop time back in May was around 2.5 & he tells me there are freshman with 1.8-2.0 times (I guess Pudge went back to HS). Basically, he is still not letting him try out in January.

I don't want him "blackballed", so I'm hesitant to go over his head to the AD. I'm also aware that, even if he allowed him to try out, he'd likely still not put him on the team.

He'll continue to work his tail off (probably harder now) & will give it another go in his soph year. Any other suggestions/comments?

Thanks for letting me vent & tell my story.
Offense wins ballgames, DEFENSE wins CHAMPIONSHIPS.
Last edited {1}
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Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
quote:
He'll continue to work his tail off (probably harder now) & will give it another go in his soph year. Any other suggestions/comments?


A positive end to a tough situation. Your son can also play during the summer and fall with a good travel team, take individual instruction relevant to his postion and condition using baseball specific training. I'd get ready for next fall...starting today. Good luck.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
UT,

At times I hate to see these stories but when all is said and done and you and your son look back at this situation you may laugh. That I think is the msg to send to your son. Like Dad04 says he should "start today" today. In the long run the worse that can happen is that he will only gain self-respect that he took on the challenge, and you can't take that away. If he follows through and everything works out, the skys the limit.

The hardest part is going down the road alone. Either he has to find someone with the same conviction or else his biggest fan has to jump onboard, guess who. That is for you to decide at what level. That father/son bond will make that amount of effort very obvious. Once things get rolling you will understand your role, until then he is at an age where he needs support.
Last edited by rz1
UF UT FanaticMember
It was a Phys Ed. class during school hours. Now I think he would've been better off going to "regular" PE, then trying out in Jan.

One thing I forgot to mention is that several guys who've played with him before told him they were shocked he got cut. They said it was the talk of the football locker room.

That's great that he has a bunch of guys with "strength & speed", but can they hit, throw & catch?!
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
UT - I agree with Will that the AD aproach will blow up in your face and send the wrong message to your son.

Outside the box ideas...

1) Is there a smaller private school nearby he could transfer that might increase his odds of making the team?

2) Is there another public school he could attend?

3) I have made this suggestion before. Watch the movie Rudy. That kid just refused no for an answer. Maybe your son can find a role for himself in another way (for the short term) and then ingratiate himself with the coach over time though sheer force of will, effort, and hard work as noted above. Some ideas might be "Hey coach, I know you said I can't try out but could I still catch bullpens? Could I help as a team manager, equipment, lining fields, setting bases, mainitaining the fields, etc.? Could I just hang around the team and do whatever needs done?
B BTJohnson10+ posts
In San Antonio, there are some excellent facilities used for building strength and increasing your speed and agility. I am sure Austin has the same type facilities. I would encourage your son to set some very specific goals in terms of velocity, speed, strength, and pop time. Measure where he is now and write down those goals on a chart - where you can measure your progress. If your son wants to pitch, find out how hard the sophomore JV pitchers were throwing - that might be one of your target goals. Baseball works with numbers, and it will be easy to measure your progress. How fast he gets down the line (from crack of the bat to touching first base)? Set a goal there. How fast does he run the 60? His pop time will improve with his velocity and improvements in his agility and technique. One of the best investments you can make, if it is affordable, is to get professional instruction. If you can find a good pitching coach who is aligned with a quality select baseball program, you will accomplish two things. Your son will become a better pitcher and he will have an inside track on being invited onto a quality select program.

Good luck!
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
I agree with will.
I would also check to see if your son is developed enough to do heavy strength training. Growth plates etc.
How did the coach react to your meeting with him. Some get very defensive.
Keep son working hard to improve his skills and understand that baseball can be a cruel sport.Personally I would not have had the meeting with the coach and going to the AD would be suicide.
B Bee>1,000+ posts
gee I gotta disagree with most & agree with TPM's points

I'd be in the AD's office in a heartbeat, but would keep anything re my son or his skill level out of the conversation ...

I'd need district policies clarified about sport tryouts & how guys could be pre-cut or blackballed from a regular-season tryout??

are students blackballed from tryouts in football?
in basketball?
softball??

I'd be courtious & if I didn't get sensible answers pretty quick, preferably in print out of the policy manual, I'd end the meeting informing him intent to take the questions the AD couldn't answer to the superintendant before inquiring of a board member


YOU elect the board to hire a superintendent to oversee competent staff in YOUR SCHOOL, but sometimes a nut will slip in

again keep the player out of it

Will, when you coached could your team policies contradict your school district's policies??
I know Texas is kinda funny in some ways, but doubt the schools sanctions cuts during off season conditioning

.
Last edited by Bee>
U 3up-3down500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Was fall just for conditioning? Our HS coaches are not allowed to work with players in the off season, unless in HS class only.

I feel that your son has every right to try out in January. It should be determined at THAT time who gets a spot on the team and who does not.
JMO.
I agree with TPMom.If it was a PE. class where he was NOT having a tryout...but cutting players...It sounds like something fishy to me.Certainly not allowed in Va.IMO You did good to talk to the coach to show your son's desire,but going to the AD is not good.New coach = AD. can't step on toes to early.You have a little time to secretly check out the rules,but have him show up for tryouts in tip-top shape anyway.Good Luck
T Texan1,000+ posts
Overall, I think Dad04 has nailed it. I would add one thing.

Your son (not you) needs to go to the coach and ask him exactly what he needs to improve in order to make the team next year. And he needs to politely ensure that the coach gives specific answers, even if that means his asking more questions.

For TPM & Bee, Texas allows a baseball PE class. The coach can do pretty much anything in that period as long as it only involves his team (no scrimmages with other teams). To my knowlege, there is nothing that specifies how tryouts or team selections are to be held. Some coaches have everyone attend a two or three day tryout and make one cut to the final teams. Others make an initial cut, then make a final cut.

In essence, this coach chose to use the fall as his first tryout.

Some schools don't let freshmen in the baseball PE class until the spring when they have made the team. Others let anyone in.

Some baseball coaches are really football coaches who got stuck with coaching baseball in the spring. Some of these football coaches tend to show favoritism toward football players. Not right, but that is just the way it is sometimes.
B brod100+ posts
I like a combination of all these ideas. First, have your son work hard on his weaknesses - find out what the standards are and then surpass them. Second, don't worry too much about not making the team. Frosh ball means little or nothing to the big picture - your son making the varsity. Let's project his athletic build. How big are you and your wife? That is how a college coach or recruiter will evaluate it... I assume he won't always stay 5'5". Sounds like the coach cut him based only on size. What a crock - especially for Frosh ball. I would not go to the AD, although I can see why you would be tempted - doubt it would change anything, and even if it did, it would just cause resentment over a four year period. Finally, have you seen the Frosh teams around the league your high school plays in? Could your son start or at least play for those schools? If so, why not transfer now? Your coach is unlikely to change his mind about the size issue. Yes he could learn a valuable lesson by staying and working hard, but you could also profit from starting somewhere else and continuing to work hard there. You and your son are on a long journey. Good for you for backing him up, but not going ballistic on the coach. Good luck and let us know what you do!
LadyNmomLadyNmom1,000+ posts
I agree with Bee>......it goes without saying that kids should always work harder if they want to take to the field....the competition never stops...you need to stay ahead....but this kid isn't even being given the opportunity to compete....this coach has to be violating state athletic rules....he has to be.....

12 out of 16 got the word not to bother trying out....are any other parents complaining? Strength in numbers....better for several to see the AD....then no one player gets retalliation...
Last edited by LadyNmom
obradyobrady500+ posts
I have seen a similar situation at a school in Georgia near where we used to live. The school had 60 kids try out for the freshman team. Needless to say some good ball players were cut. Many of whom could have been stars at other local schools. It's just one of the choices parents need to consider when you choose a place to live.

At this point, I agree with others, have your son handle it. Have him talk to the coach, see if there is some role he can play with the team this season, equipment manager etc. Show the coach what a hard worker he is and he should take advantage of jumping in the cage or take a few grounders while waiting for things to start or after the practice is over. Show what he can do when the opportunity presents itself.
When I had to move to Texas, we looked at all the schools in the area where I was to working. We took my son to each school, met with any coaches or school officials. Talked about their programs and then let him decide where he wanted to cast his lot.
Last edited by obrady
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I am glad to see that Bee> and I agree on something. Smile

Coach "cuts" a player in a fall PE class? Isn't that what spring try outs are for?

If coach was a good coach, he would encourage all to try out and then do his snippin'. He may already have some good ideas about who may make it and who might not, but you cannot STOP anyone from trying out. Coach has no class.

I'd definetly get a clarification on that, and have your son begin some in workouts.

No wonder kids turn to stuff to get bigger and stronger. How big and strong so you expect a freshman to be? Big and strong has nothing to do with ones skills, at that age. JMO.

Sorry fanatic, I am just Mad at what I am hearing here.
Last edited by TPM
T theEH1,000+ posts
My 2 cent's,

I would never go to the AD or even talk to the coach.
If my son talked to the coach, I'd have him ask the coach.
What do I need to improve on to make the team??
If I work hard this winter can I try out in the spring.

This will show the coach his determination.

If coach say's OK great.
If coach say's no way.

Then find another HS in the same league.
And then beat that HS coaches A$$ everytime
you play them. JMHO
EH
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
I can see you’re getting a lot of different opinions and like brod I think each offers some helpful hints. Here’s my .02 cents. No big problem meeting with the coach but I suggest you let it stop there. You cannot force the issue with him. More discussions with him will only polarize the situation. Like BEE suggest I would contact the AD to make sure you understand the policies and the coach is adhering to both the school and the state athletic association’s policy. Don’t go in complaining or you will create more problems. If the AD turns a deaf ear I would call the Texas High School Athletic Association or the school board. It strikes me odd that the coach has the right to refuse ANY student from trying out. For lack of better words I would suggest the try-out is a RIGHT and making the team is a PRIVLEDGE.
Next I would talk with my son and explain life. Life is not fair but he can really improve the odds with hard work and dedication. I also like what Cleveland Dad suggested in his #3 paragraph. SHOW the coach he wants to be part of the team. He may start out as a gopher but if he’s the best gopher around he WILL be promoted.
Let me reiterate what BEE said about keeping the specific player out of the conversation with the AD or persons those over the AD. I’ll be a little blunter than BEE ---- There is something about a parent throwing out stats or pushing their son in a situation like this that’s a real turnoff and will create a bad situation for their son. There is a right way and a wrong way to go about these sensitive matters. As they say, you can win the battle but lose the war if you say or do the wrong thing.
There are two issues here. One is with your son and what you can do to help him stay focused on his goals. Number two is for you to investigate the tryout/selection process and make sure everything is copasetic.
Fungo
Last edited by Fungo
F FormerObserver1,000+ posts
quote:
Some baseball coaches are really football coaches who got stuck with coaching baseball in the spring. Some of these football coaches tend to show favoritism toward football players.


A likely scenario.

There is not much to freshman high school baseball. Your description of what they did in the fall will be just about what they do in the spring.

They might play 10-15 games in the spring. Usually a brand new first year football coach.

I have seen two freshmen teams with maybe two or three of those football coaches working with them.

Might be a suggestion that you could make.

But, I can tell you this is a far more creative thought than most athletic football directors are capable.

Hit the cages and instruction from a good baseball instructor during the spring, maybe gather up some of those 40 boys cut, put together two teams and play on the weekends.

Get ready for summer.

You really ain't missing a whole lot.
UF UT FanaticMember
Thanks for all the suggestions. I've already talked with him about the "life sometimes isn't fair" lesson.

He's been working out at an indoor baseball facility since the end of October, with instruction in all facets of the game.

I feel he could easily make the team at the other schools in our district, but transferring is really not an option. We're at the best HS in the district & he has a lot of friends already at the school.
T theEH1,000+ posts
quote:
I feel he could easily make the team at the other schools in our district, but transferring is really not an option. We're at the best HS in the district & he has a lot of friends already at the school.


UT, Is he trying to make the freshman, JV, or varsity team??

Best HS in what way, Academic's, are the best baseball school?

What's more important to him, Playing baseball.
Are haveing your friend's at the school?

I'm not trying to be a Hard***.
But if there's a will there's a way.

But only your Son can make that decision.
It's at this point in time that a parent has to take a back seat and allow your boy to handle his own situation's.

If he work's hard and doesn't quit he will come out of this a stronger baseball player, And more important a stronger person.
Good Luck. EH
T Texan1,000+ posts
Folks, I'm here to tell you that in most all of Texas, you can't just arbitrarily change schools. You must live in the attendance zone of the school you attend. If you don't, then you are NOT allowed to participate in varsity athletics in the new school. So when you are advising tu to change schools, you are talking about selling his existing home and buying another home in the attendance zone of the other school.

Apparently there is one district in the DFW area that allows students to choose a HS (with some limitations). I do not believe that any of the Austin area school districts allow such. Occasionally there is a district with a "magnet" school (e.g., Corpus Christi Moody) which lets kids outside the attendance zone come in if they sign up in the magnet school's special course of study. Technically they aren't supposed to do so for athletic purposes. {But it happens.}

Other than that, there is no legal way to change high schools and participate in athletics other than moving into the new high school's attendance zone.

And it may not be worth moving just for baseball. There are no guarantees of making the team at some other HS.
B 2008 Beebe10+ posts
UT - I think we all feel for your son's dilemma. Having your child not succeed can sometimes be disappointing - having them not get a fair chance to succeed is downright frustrating. Most of us have been there at one point or another. Hopefully your son continues to work at it. He should tryout again in the spring. Frankly, I don't think the coach can prevent him from trying out. Even if he gets "cut" (or, as it appears, he is not on the preapproved list), he should try his hardest and make the decision difficult for the coach.

It probably doesn't help much, but freshman baseball is not all that significant in the whole scheme of things. Hopefully he can improve a great deal with his other teams this year and impress a different coach as a sophmore.
T TDad10+ posts
UT Fan, My son is a junior in a 5A program and every year we see this at the local high schools around here. It's very common. For whatever reason usually a combination of size and skills they miss on somebody. Its usually futile to make a big issue with the coach. We've seen some family's move to another district and sometimes it works out,especially to smaller schools. Most people have no idea how hard it is to make a good 5A program let alone get playing time. When our neighbor's son was cut from P.E. it was difficult for him too. He is now playing in a REC lague and enjoys it tremendously. He has new friends and still enjoys the game of baseball as much as ever.
Good luck on whatever path you choose and try out again next year.
obradyobrady500+ posts
If moving is an option, you may want to investigate the rules. In Ga., if a parent moved, they had to write a letter to the board explaining why and as long as it was a reasonable reason, it was cleared. I know of some who simplely wrote that they moved closer to their work, or other simple normal life reasons to relocate.
I itsagreatgame100+ posts
I'm sorry to hear about this type of situation. This coach had better be pretty fantastic and produce some winning teams because his communication skills won't get him very far in the future. If indeed his policy is to eliminate players pre-season / mid-semester he should have just kept his mouth shut and not mentioned it at all. Leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. If his mind is made up, what's the difference if he looks at a kid again, or ignores him or whatever in January? Seems like that would be the time to tell a player what he needs to do for next year.

Keep after it, kid. I hope you turn out to be all-state by your senior year.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
For those of us outside the great state of Texas, please explain what 5a, 4a, and so forth means. Is it based on the number of boys attending that particular school? Is it up to the school? Also, don't you have private schools in Texas that one could transfer to? and Finally, are all the schools governed by the same rules. Here in Ohio, the Catholic Schools often have an advantage because they can draw kids from any region and/or state for that matter. Thanks!
T Texan1,000+ posts
5A is the largest class, 4A the next smaller, etc. It is based on student population in the HS.

The UIL is the assocation governing public school athletics (as well as band, orchestra, academic, etc. competitions).

Every two years, the UIL determines the dividing point (e.g., specfic student population) for the various classifications. If a HS population grows past the dividing line, they move up to the next classification. If it declines below a dividing line, they move down.

Private schools do exist, but they are typically very expensive and thus not an option for many folks. They are governed by their own association. They are not restricted to attendance boundaries like public schools.
T TDad10+ posts
A typical 5A high school ranges from 2800 to 4000 students. Most have 70-100 kids try out each year. Most programs have about 50 kids with a Head Coach and 3 parttime Asst coaches. Many will take about about 15-20 freshmen and cut a few after sophmore year if they not progressing to make room for talented freshmen. Pitchers get the longest look because they take awhile to develop and the injury factors. It's very common to have varsity quality junior pitchers and catchers on JV due to depth in a program.

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