Summer Ball: High School vs. Travel Team

quote:

"would be tryouts for next year" and that "players who want to play next year MUST play for the summer team".

I'm sorry but I can't buy that type of unethical "recruiting".

The same tactics were tried on my son and I took my son elsewhere without any repercussions. In our state: While coaches are permitted to coach summer teams with players from their school there are 2 “dead periods” where coaches are prohibited from any contact with “their” players. An incident in our state where a player was “forced” to participate on his HS summer team was challenged by the parents vs. the TSSAA (Tennessee’s athletic assoc). The parents claimed a high school coach should have no say so in how a player “must” spend his summer in order to participate in high school athletics. The parents won and the coach lost his job. If you feel as if your son would be punished for trying to go elsewhere I would contact your AD or the state athletic organization for a clarification on the position of your state’s athletic organization as it applies to coaches and “forced” summer participation.
Fungo

Let me add:
There are many different perspectives in high school baseball. Everyone “wants” something and everyone is giving instructions as to what you should do. There are showcase promoters, summer coaches, high school coaches, girl friends, recruiting services, instructors, parents and other players. My approach was to look at what was in my son’s best interest and to help him move in that direction. There will be many decisions you as a parent will need to make over the next few years. It will be hard to ignore obligations, loyalty, and friendship during these times but these need to be minimized so you can focus on your son’s best interest.
Good Luck,
Fungo

Thanks for the response.

This is a very commom situation you find yourself in. It sounds like you have a very good hs coach. But it also sounds like he is trying to control what his kids do in the off season. Let me give you an example of a situation I have had a few times. I have a summer hs team. I had a rising jr lhp that was very good. He was already dominate against other average hs players. Playing in the summer against the same kids he was already dominating in my belief was not a good situation for him. He had the chance to better himself by playing for a good travel team against better competition. I encouraged him to do so.

The coach should understand that its whats best for the kids in the off season not whats best for his summer team. Some kids benefit greatly from extending the hs season into the summer and fall. Some need to be challenged more and play better competition. Your son is young and has some time. I would suggest that he play on the coaches team this summer and attend a couple of showcase events. Next summer if he is indeed a college prospect I would say that he needs to find a quality showcase team and do what is best for him not what the coach feels is best for his program.

There are hs coaches that want to control what their players do in the off season. These coaches are concerned with what is best for their program first. In my opinion once the hs season ends its about what is best for the player and his future development. They need to play in the venue that offers them the best opportunity to develop as a player. And when the time is right they need to be seen by the college coaches that their talent level will allow them to play at.

You are not alone. I have had numerous conversations with parents torn between doing what the hs coach wants their kid to do and what they feel is best for their son. Remember this. The hs coach that requires his better players to play at a level that will not benefit them in the future over playing in a venue that will is not putting your kid first they are putting their desires first. Once the hs season ends it is your job to see that your son is put first. I hope this helps you out.

Our Athletic Director told me that it was against the Ga. High School Athletics for a coach to "pressure" a kid into playing for the high school team and could lead to termination. How I found this out was because we went through a similar situation. Thankfully it worked out for son before it got to that.

Coach May gives very solid advise, and you won't go wrong listening. I agree that him being young I also think it would be good to play for his coach this summer and attend quality showcases, etc.

Any high school coach IMO that would let's his better players go to play at a more competitive level in the summer is a smart man. It allows him to see what talent he has coming up and how they will play in certain situations, and if they are ready or not.

Coach May,

Its really refreshing to hear a good coach who GETS IT!

Coach May, I really like what you said. My son just told me about something similar to what 5for5 posted, that will happen at his school. He will be on the JV team next year as a sophmore. The varsity coach will be teaching a baseball class in summer school as well as coaching 3 different summer teams. He expects for the players to attend the class as well as play on one of the teams this summer. This would not leave much time for summer travel ball. We are trying to figure out what's more important since my son won't be playing varsity yet

As far as I am aware (pretty sure) the varsity coaches in Florida are not allowed to coach their team other than in the HS season. He may get around it somehow, but he is not allowed to indicate he is involved.

Follow Fungo's advice, call the FHSSA for rules, or your schools AD.

My son asked for permission from the high school coach if he could miss 10 days in June for the USA championships (formerly know as Junior Olympics). The coach gave his blessing.

Excellent advise from Coach May. Here in Spokane, we have some top players facing this same dillema. My son is on a top travel team that goes against the best competition in the Pacific Northwest. Last year, they won the Connie Mack state championship. While it is not an issue at Bum, Jr.'s school, I do know a lot of school coaches severly frown upon their players not playing legion baseball for their school (and instead opting to play on the select team). If I read Coach May right, give your son another year to solidify his spot on the team before you put your foot down and do what's best for your son. If he is talented they will not deny him a spot in the lineup.

We've been in the same situation with all three of our sons while in high school. We felt, as Coach May said, that our boys would benefit from a greater level of competition... however, what happens to the summer hs team when 4, 5 or 6 players all decide to play somewhere else? The reality for our team (smallish school, team of 12 or 14 boys) is that there would be no team if the best players all opted out of summer ball. The same is true for most of the schools around us. That's why the coaches take the "play summer ball or else" approach - they won't have a team if they don't coerce players to play. I think the hs coaches tried to address the issue by creating the summer playoff/championship system, hoping to raise the stakes a bit and make it more interesting, but it's still playing against the same players and teams as you've played all season. Just not the same as a tournament team.

We've always compromised by finding a weekend tournament team - our hs team plays Mon-Thur and the tournament team plays Fri-Sun. Lots of baseball, and quite frankly it's very, very hard to be a pitcher in those circumstances - lots of stories about hs coaches who know a player is planning to pitch on the weekend and they use him in a means-nothing Thursday game out of spite or control or whatever. But our boys were not pitchers, loved playing every day and there were very few problems or conflicts with the hs coach.

When we lived in Ga., we had the situation where the high school coach wanted everyone to play during the summer session. He tried to strong arm everyone into participating. The younger guys all did. The older guys knew the summer competition was below par so they continued to play with their travel teams, showing up for school games when there wasn't any conflicts. What could the coach do, cut his best players? I think that now they don't even play summer ball anymore.

There is only one thing to be certain for your son...there are no guarantees that even if he complies or doesn't comply with the hs coaches demands that your son will be viewed by the coach as either acceptable or unacceptable for his program.

The key to the understanding of the issue is to properly evaluate the talent and skill level that your son has in comparison to the hs program versus that offerred by the private travel summer baseball program. The question is will your son suffer a loss of skill development as a result of playing the hs program because the coaching and competition in comparison doesn't offer what the private summer BB program offers?

Apparently that seems to be the crux of the problem otherwise there would be no issue.

Do what's best for your son. My son had a similar situaton where he was required to play for his coach in an American Legion summer program with his school BB teammates. In 10 pitching starts went undefeated and helped his coach win a summer championship then spent the next two years getting to pitch very little during the season.

Go with the programs that let your son play...that's the key to your son's success and continued love for the game.
JMO

Thank you for all of the very sound advice which we will certainly take into consideration.

Son would likely start and/or play significantly in both situations.

If it is appropriate, I will post a follow-up at the end of the summer.

FHSAA does not regulate summer athletic activities however read FHSAA handbook policy 22 page 147. It appears it is left up to individuals principals and district school superintendents to set individual policy and according to what I interpret the FHSAA highly discourages interscholastic athletic competition at that time.

The HS legislators here in the Northeast solved this problem by not permitting HS coaches to coach their kids out of season with some minor exceptions


We do not have the headaches you speak about

Even if the hs coach is not allowed to actually coach the team you still run into the same type of issues. It used to be that hs coaches were not allowed to coach his hs players outside the hs season in NC. The HC would just have a friend or another coach run the on field stuff. What happens is the hs coach wants to keep his guys together in the off season. When players decide to do something else like play showcase etc they are considered selfish and not looking out for their hs team. Not in all cases but in some.

What I would always try to do is bring up the rising 9th graders with rising 10 graders. I encouraged our rising sr's to play a more competitive brand of baseball. And I encouraged our other players that were not challenged by playing in this league to play showcase. It doesnt do a player any good to play down in competition. It does not do your program any good either. Yes you may win alot of games in the summer and fall. But it will not help your guys that are not challenged. And those guys need to play the best competition possible and if they are talented enough they need to be seen by college coaches.

If I had a son in this type of situation I would do what was best for my sons development as a player in the off season. If the coach had a problem with my son doing what was best for him in the off season then I would know right then and there that he was more concerned with his off season team winning than my sons future in the game.

My advice is to never allow someone else to pressure you into doing something that you know is not the best situation for your son. There comes a time when kids have to do what it best for them. During the hs season its about the team and the school and the community. During the off season its about making sure your son is in the best baseball situation for his development as a player.

Im sorry but a kid that is talented enough to play at the next level is not going to benefit as a Jr or Sr playing in the summer in a hs league. He needs to be playing against the best competition he can find and with the best players he can play with. And he needs to get away from the same coach that has been coaching him the whole year. They learn alot from being around other quality players and coaches. JMO based on years of experience dealing with this sort of thing.

Please note FHSAA Policy 24 below that states coaches can coach their players in the summer as long as the program is in a league.

During the off-season, a coach or prospective coach of any member
school may be involved with a non-school team in a sport that he/she coaches
provided the non-school team meets the following requirements:
(a) The team must be affiliated with an outside agency promoting athletic
participation opportunities such as, but not limited to:
Baseball – Babe Ruth, American Legion, city/county leagues
(b) Participation must include a published schedule of competition.
(c) All fees or assessment for participation must be documented.
(d) Participation shall be voluntary and shall not be required, either directly
or indirectly, for membership on an interscholastic team.

FBG:

Dont worry, I know what the rules are ... our HS coach would not be coaching in the summer if it were against the rules.

He is a good coach and a well respected person who just happens to have a different philosophy. It is something we'll work through with class, tact and diplomacy. It just wont be as easy as we'd like...is it ever?

I come from "the other side of the fence" from Coach May, as I'm a summer travel team coach. In my experience, HS coaches like Coach May are a pleasant exception to what we normally encounter.

Not all high schools in our area have summer teams, but for those that do (most of them) the HS coaches expect the players to play for them during the summer. Most of the coaches are fairly reasonable, and while they understand that the players will be playing with a travel team, they do ask them to prioritize the HS team first and travel ball second. While I think this does a dis-service to the better players, I understand that it is reality and we work around their HS team demands. As a result, I carry a much larger roster than I'd like, and we expect to have some of our players missing for most of our games. We do make a few exceptions where we expect our players to be with us over the HS team, USA Baseball's 16u championships (JOs) and Perfect Game's WWBA wood bat championships being the primary tournaments where we suggest the players advise their HS coach that they won't be around for the HS games during those times. Those tournaments are prime opportunities for HS players to be seen by college coaches, so we emphasize the importance of attending those tournaments instead of staying home to play the same old HS summer league games. Other than those big tournaments, I generally tell our kids to communicate well, and in advance, to let us know when they will or won't be with us, so that we can plan our rosters and lineups accordingly.

We also have a few situations where the HS coach can be an absolute tyrant, demanding that the kid plays with them first, last and absolutely, or else. In those cases, we work with the players and parents to get them on the field when we can, and suggest that they talk with the coach to reach some accomodation, and failing that to go to the AD and/or principal to get some assistance. We have one local HS coach who was ok with one of his kids going on a "family vacation" until he found out it included the kid playing with us in the JOs. He kicked the kid off the HS summer team, and told him he'd have to try out the following spring (his senior year), even though he was already a varsity starter. He pretty much humiliated the kid, even benching him when he missed a pre-season scrimmage in February to visit the university where he'd just been accepted and is now attending. The kid's response was to lead his league in hits and batting average, make all-league and first team all-city (our city is about 1.25 million population) and the coach still wouldn't do anything to help him at any time. Isn't it interesting how some HS coaches, who are educators in many cases (all in a sense) are giving their student athletes one of the important lessons in human behavior, but not the lesson they think they are providing. Some guys just have no business coaching, on either side of the fence.

You might talk with your travel team's coach and see if he's willing to work around the demands of your HS coach, and give your son some playing time when he's available this summer. Then, he can set himself up to be a more regular player with the travel team next year. When all is said and done, you need to have your kid playing where he's going to be seen by those who can help him move on if he's good enough. That isn't in HS summer ball.

We are blessed. Not only did son's high school coach highly recommend my son when the travel team coach called about him, he also set up the tryout. Son did play with the high school summer team as a freshman and a sophomore.