Summer College Leagues

I think that one of the primary reasons summer ball is so important is that most leagues use wood bats. There is no way to make yourself a better hitter than by facing division I pitchers with a wooden bat instead of a rocket launcher. Keeps ya humble

Summer ball gives the back half of the roster significant playing time therefore improving their chances to start next season.

There are only so many summer teams and those rosters are many times filled in the winter. Because summer teams usually are made up of players that will be an intrical part of the following years team, a college coach has to be very proactive and determine what players would fit that mold and get early committment from those players to spend their summer in Anywhere USA. Backing out at the last minute is a bad option that puts a coach in an ugly seat. If that player has a bad Spring, or in a pitchers case "overused", are other issues to potentially deal with.

Summer teams and college coaches "network" and as a result if a college coach does not have that "connection", or has burned a bridge, his players may be looked over.

When the college season is winding down all summer teams look to fill a roster spot here and there, and all college teams have players to give, but at that point there are many more players then spots available.

It may seem that coaches do not promote players for Summer Leagues but I think that any coach would love to have his players in good quality leagues, but, there are many intangibles that may be holding him back.

quote:

If that player has a bad Spring, or in a pitchers case "overused", are other issues to potentially deal with.

We just refer to it as being "completely used needing a rest"

I think some schools are concerned about players leaving for other schools as well. While that may happen from time to time, the benefits of summer ball far outweigh the risks in my opinion.

I was told the better leagues have their rosters filled by fall. Son wanted to take summer off, said he needed the break. I inquired with his college coach what his opinion was and he mentioned if you aren't willing to be on the field as much as possible, then it questions the player's commitment to the sport.
Has your non-pitcher son "taken" the summer off while in college? Was it good for them or not?

PUHD,
Your son's coach is right, most position players want nothing else more than to get in more playing time in the summer and face more and better competition. It is different for pitchers.

Why are you inquiring through his coach anyway. If he is telling you in the fall he already needs a break next summer, he may not have the commitment you would like him to have, this is something he has to figure out.

The only reason for not playing summer ball if given the opportunity (position players) would be to take summer classes.

JMO

"There are only so many summer teams and those rosters are many times filled in the winter."

Yep, my son was signing summer team commitment papers his first week of school this year.

We were hoping he would find a summer team spot. We were very suprised how early he was locked up.

quote:

"There are only so many summer teams and those rosters are many times filled in the winter."

This is only partially correct. The Cape and better teams in other leagues will have mostly complete rosters by December.
By March/April of next year, nearly every team in every league will have openings.
This is true in the Cape also. Some of this is due to injury, some due to academics, some for other reasons.
In the Cape, they lose players to Team USA and the draft, also. If your son wants to play and has the skills to play in a top Summer league, good coaches can get him placed in good situations as late as April/May of 2010.
PUHD, position players have to play Summer ball in college, in my view. If they don't, others are getting better. I would think it is even more important for a JC player than a 4 year college guy.
Summer ball is a time when they are all tired, but if you love baseball and, more importantly, you love competing between the lines against the very best players in college baseball, you are a player who looks forward to, anticipates, and expects to be playing in the Summer.

quote: The only reason for not playing summer ball if given the opportunity (position players) would be to take summer classes.

There could be tons of reasons; if the kid doesn't want to play and still gets some work in a gets himself ready to play; returns to campus in the fall and is better than others at his position those summer games won't mean a thing to the guys who are sitting the bench behind the better player.

As for coaches saying, "wanted to see your committment" that is such rhetoric and bs

The better players will play the lion's share of the innings

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
The only reason for not playing summer ball if given the opportunity (position players) would be to take summer classes.

JMO

...or learning to drive tanks, launching mortars and cuttin' loose with a 50 caliber.

ooo, wait...I guess that's where that "given the opportunity" comes in...

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
quote: The only reason for not playing summer ball if given the opportunity (position players) would be to take summer classes.

There could be tons of reasons; if the kid doesn't want to play and still gets some work in a gets himself ready to play; returns to campus in the fall and is better than others at his position those summer games won't mean a thing to the guys who are sitting the bench behind the better player.

As for coaches saying, "wanted to see your committment" that is such rhetoric and bs

The better players will play the lion's share of the innings

No one says you have to play summer ball, but interestingly enough, you will often find those that go off to play summer ball and do well come back with good attitudes to win positions over others. Here's a good example, my sons teammate, only pitched 16 innings as a freshman, went to the cape and had a terrific summer and gained confidance needed to compete, came back and ranked as one of the top closers in the nation, won a spot on USA the next summer, the next year 4th pick in the draft.
I am gonna go with infieldad on this, summer ball is very important, especially if a player wants to go to the next level, there scouts are able to see how they perform playing against (pitchers) and with (position players) wood. Summer wood bat leagues especially favor pitchers, so IMO, it's important for the position player to get as much reps with wood as possible in front of those that may someday consider him for proball. Especially true for JUCO players, these are the players that are draft eligible each year and eventually looking for a 4 year opportunity.

If your son wants to play summer ball, this is a good discussion in the recruiting phase, if the coach says he doesn't place players, that means he has developed no relationship with leagues, managers or scouts.

BTW, scouts often ask coaches to place certain players so they can see how they do, as we all know that is the difference maker for many players (wood vs. metal). And it's not about how well you play your position, but how well you hit the ball.

Judging by the replies, I'm going with summer ball. Now all son needs to do is find a local one.

Most collegiate summer league teams have already filled a significant portion of their rosters, and in the most prominent leagues, many were finished a month or more ago. One of my teams is a collegiate level team that used to take only local area players. We played in the local Stan Musial league, which is mainly juco players, along with some 4 year players and a sprinkling of former pro players whose careers have ended early while they're still young (that is most pro players, btw). For 2010, we've decided to change our focus and have joined a new collegiate league that is forming in northern CA, and I recently sent out an email to all the college coaches on my contacts list. I'm a bit surprised at how many quality players who are still available, and for good reasons. Right now, I'm down in Arizona at the Jr. Fall Classic, and was approached by a couple good programs, one a Big West program, who are looking to place some of their players that initially didn't plan on playing next summer. Two of these guys are pitchers who were going to stay home, not to rest, but because they are engineering majors and want to take summer courses for their engineering degree. The coach said he might be able to give me a 6'5" pitcher who sits low 90s, but first he has to make sure it'll work around the players studies. My response was that if I could have that player, I'd give him his start schedule, and he could take most of the other days off to pursue his studies, and do his off day throwing at school. That clinched the deal, and he then offered me the 2nd pitcher who is in the same boat. What summer coach wouldn't take a couple low 90s guys who are staying home to pursue a degree like that, and were only foregoing baseball due to academics taking a higher priority?

I just wanted to describe this example to show that opportunities still exist on both ends of college summer ball, and there are good players who don't play summer ball for reasons many people might not consider. We're only a small program in an insignificant (for now) conference, but next summer we'll have players from the WAC, WCC, Big West as well as some east coast players whose coaches haven't placed them in bigger conferences and were glad to find another option. Heck, we're even going to have an Ivy League player who wants to come home for the summer, but who also wants to play. There are lots of reasons kids either don't play in the summer, or end up places you might not expect them.

06catcher dad, good article on first hand recount of college summer ball. How about this reason, I just want a break from baseball? "We play big spring schedule". No where was the word "summer school" involved in discussion. I don't accept excuses like that when on one hand someone says they want to play professionally. The two just don't go hand in hand from what I've heard from other parents of boys who did go pro. I'm getting mixed signals from son on this subject.

'06catcherdad - you have a PM

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
06catcher dad, good article on first hand recount of college summer ball. How about this reason, I just want a break from baseball? "We play big spring schedule". No where was the word "summer school" involved in discussion. I don't accept excuses like that when on one hand someone says they want to play professionally. The two just don't go hand in hand from what I've heard from other parents of boys who did go pro. I'm getting mixed signals from son on this subject.

=edited by poster=
On second thought...nevermind

Summer ball is very valuable. Son pitched in Canada and not only had a blast, did great on the diamond and improved his confidence setting him up for the Fall. I agree that one has to be careful about innings for pitchers, but hopefully your coach has the same concern and may tailor the summer team pitching load to preserve the pitcher. Most summer rosters are already full, but there are still openings right into the Spring due to injuries and the draft.

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
06catcher dad, good article on first hand recount of college summer ball. How about this reason, I just want a break from baseball? "We play big spring schedule". No where was the word "summer school" involved in discussion. I don't accept excuses like that when on one hand someone says they want to play professionally. The two just don't go hand in hand from what I've heard from other parents of boys who did go pro. I'm getting mixed signals from son on this subject.

PUHD,
Does your son really love playing the game? Does your son really want to play or do you want him to play, I am getting confused here. Or does he want to play proball because he only sees the glam and $$ side of MLB, because with that attitude, he would never make it through milb or perhpas a really tough D1 schedule. Most serious players can't get enough, yeah they all want a break, but usually the ones who want it the most (to continue after HS and college) just keep playing, through fall, spring and summer.

There is nothing wrong with him wanting to take the summer off, from baseball, but what would he plan to do if not playing, that is a key question, work, go to school, or sit around being a couch potato?

You need to sit down and have a man to man, one on one with him.

A player not "given" a summer assignment by his coach is in a difficult position. Kids that show well in the spring (JC players included) can usually find a spot on a good summer team, yes even cape code and alaska. My son played in alaska and his team added players in late june! These rosters are fluid for alot of reasons. If you need help locating a team a friendly scout or coach(opposition) can be helpful.

However a position player skipping summer ball says alot to his coach about his commitment. A D1 or JC coach not lining up a summer assignment says alot about what the coach thinks (or doesn't think) about the player. If you have to "force/motivate" your kid to take advantage of a summer opportunity I think the writing is on the wall.....

What are you guys smoking ?
Lots of top players don't play summer ball. Many are placed and only because they didn't get any playing time as freshmen and sophs.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
What are you guys smoking ?

I would like to be the first to apologize for offending the oracle of all college baseball knowledge.

quote:

Originally posted by scbaseball:
Why is it that some college coaches place such a big focus on summer baseball while others could care less? It seems that the best teams are the ones that regularly place the vast majority of their players in the various leagues across the country. I believe it is a no brainer to get your kids as many quality reps as possible over the summer. Yet some coaches don't see the same importance.

BHD,
The above is the OP's question.

I am not sure I know of many top players that haven't played summer college ball, especially those wishing to play at the next level after college.

Yes, one of the biggest reasons for playing summer ball should be because a player didn't get in enough playing time. I would imagine that coaches would want those players to get more at bats (we are talking position players).

I was responding to PUHD's son's remark in general, how does one decide in the fall that they need a summer off before they have played in the spring? This doesn't make a whole lot of sense since he states his son desires to play proball.

I like PUHD, he's pretty up front and honest and uses no excuses for his son, but reality is, it's the player that must motivate himself, for what he wants in life.

Can you name a few players (recently) that didn't play any summer ball and played pro ball?

No need CPLZ.
If CSB is so important why do most college coaches only place about 1/3 of their players if they place any at all ?
Why do many of you preach taking time off but talk about the need to play CSB ?
Several coaches worry about injuries to their players. Several worried about CSB players recruiting unhappy players on their summer team. Many coaches ask their players to keep their ears open for these players. The sit rule may have curbed this but it still goes on.

BHD,
You can't figure out that question on your own why only 1/3 are placed in CSB?

Who preaches taking time off for college players?

The transfer rule only applies to D1. Confidant and successful college coaches who run good programs are not worried about players transfering. How do you know this still exists? I can't beleive that a college coach doesn't place players in summer ball because they are afraid they will lose them. This makes no sense, does it?
Coaches don't worry about their players getting hurt while playing baseball.
Weak argument.
Again, if one wants to play summer ball, ask the coach who is recruiting you if he places players.

Bobblehead- you bring so much info to this site and frequently help posters with tough questions but.....

some of your "advice" should come with a warning label! This information is only your opinion and should not be taken as the absolute answer.

In our small corner of the world (west coast) most of the players we know DO play summer ball unless they are hurt, or have pitched too much during college season, or have to go to summer school etc.

If you think the majority of kids don't play summer ball then why are the rosters so full during the summer all across the US???????

But, this is just my opinion and would urge anyone with questions about summer ball to read all the replies and make their own assumptions. just my opinion

One more point, there are temp assignments given out as well (for players that are expected to come but still playing in the post season) and some of these temp assignments turn into full time placement. Good points, the rosters fill up fast but by end of spring there are many opportunities.

All coaches have reasons for why they place some players now and not others, but it seems that eventually all that express an interest find their way onto a team.

There will always be good reasons for not doing something and none of us are in position to judge motives or otherwise.

Baseball is a summer sport. The time to make hay is in the summer. Boys who love to play the game will generally find a way to play in the summer. I have never heard of a football player say they are taking the fall off.

IMHO - there is a team out there for each kid who desires to play in the summer. It may not be in one of the famous college summer leagues but it will be competitive nonetheless. There are tons of opportunities out there. There are 22u leagues, local wood bat leagues, American Legion teams, etc., etc.

Our own JT saw his son play on an American Legion team his freshman year out of a D3 program in Virginia. The following two years he played Southern Collegiate League and in the Coastal Plains. Both opportunites were pretty much created by JT and his video camera. I am aware of D2 programs that have huge placement numbers in the Coastal Plains and some of the D1's who could contribute players to that league have none.

The head coach and his assistants are the key factor in summer placement imho. If parents feel the coach is dragging his feet, there is nothing wrong with finding an opportunity on their own. I believe floridafan helped his son get placed in the Coastal Plains (CPL) and I believe he is headed back again this year because of the positive experience.

I speak about the CPL because I have experience with it. They typically have about 1/3 of their players drafted which is a much higher percentage than a normal D1 game. For example, my son's D1 conference had 9 players drafted from a pool of 10 teams. The CPL had well over a hundered players drafted for a similar number of teams. It is almost imperative for position players aspiring to play pro ball to play in the summer time. They have to be able to convince the scouts they can hit with something other than aluminum.

TPM, I agree with your posts and Cleveland said it all about the football players. Our son can be hard to read, my impression is he wants to have summer to kick back and spend time with girlfriend. I will say I have never heard him state he "loves" baseball. I thing the pro side aspect for him is the $$$$ and fame. When I have questioned his baseball commitment he looks at me funny and says, are you "retarded".
I did ask his coach's opinion about summer ball, taking it off and it was his opinion that it showed a lack of commitment to the game. He mentioned the ones who love the game, never take a summer off and rarely move on.

I don't understand why you would force your son to play summer ball if he isn't committed.
Is your son in HS or college ?
My son didn't want to. The freshman year in college he turned down a chance to play for the Madison Mallards in the Northwoods league. I was surprised but he said he needed a break. The soph year he met his girl friend and was cajoled into going and was miserable. Probably did more harm than good. His JR was a disaster but he was offered 4 different spots. One was in Hawaii and one was in Florida. Not sure about the other two. He was a little interested in Hawaii but it was going to cost around $2000. He also heard it wasn't what you would expect so he backed away from that one also.
It was up to him and I supported his decisions.
Pushing him to do something he isn't committed to can do more harm than good. All the logic won't make it any better. We had our talks and nothing ma

BHD, son is freshman in JC. I certainly am not pushing son, gave up long ago. I just want to be sure he knows those opportunities will end in a few short years. What he is saying doesn't go with being a pro player, which according to him is a goal. I have yet to hear one Milb,or MLB player say anything different on this site. Any of you pro ball players take a summer off????

Once girls come into the picture an 18-19 yo is toast. My guy hardly looked a girls and if they didn't like his commitment to BB it was adiós. That was until he met his current girl friend.
I tried to make my son realize that they come and they go and you are left with what your choices resulted in.

If you are interested in playing summer ball once you get to college, is that something u ask the coach during the recruiting process or can any coach find a summer league for a player.

quote:

Originally posted by NyMetropolitans22:
If you are interested in playing summer ball once you get to college, is that something u ask the coach during the recruiting process or can any coach find a summer league for a player.

Superb question!

I think you should ask the coach during recruiting. Ask him what leagues he is placing kids in and how many of his kids are placed each year. I would then go look up the rosters in those leagues to confirm those kids were actually placed and how much they played. Another source of summer placement information is the school's news bulletins. Many schools post articles on their websites listing the stats of their kids from the various summer leagues. The stronger programs typically place a large percentage of their respective players.

I am aware of some D3 and D2 programs out there who place many of their kids in some of the finest summer leagues in the country. Conversely, there are D1 programs out there who hardly get any of their kids placed. IMHO, it takes an agressive coach with long-standing connections to various leagues to help their kids get placed.

I appreciate the help

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
BHD, son is freshman in JC. I certainly am not pushing son, gave up long ago. I just want to be sure he knows those opportunities will end in a few short years. What he is saying doesn't go with being a pro player, which according to him is a goal. I have yet to hear one Milb,or MLB player say anything different on this site. Any of you pro ball players take a summer off????

PUHD,
Mine took his first summer off, but only because he had logged about 75 innings, the most a freshman had pitched in almost 5 years. He discussed it with his coach first, who agreed he might need some rest time, but he wasn't given a free pass to do nothing, he returned to Clemson, worked camps and conditioned in the gym, it was too late to apply to summer school, wish he had picked up some credits.

You should not force your son to do anything, it is his choice, but give him alternatives for coming home, if he doesn't want to play ball, and stick with it, online class, work to help pay for his expenses, etc. It's responsibility time.

There is no shame in your son having other interests, and if it his his GF, so be it, there is nothing you can do about it as they are on their way to becoming men, and they don't always think with their brains. However, having a GF doesn't mean end of the road for baseball, many of our players here have serious relationships, and some married. There is life outside of baseball, that is why his education right now is most important. I do agree that GF can get in the way, but interestingly enough, the ones who truely love and desire to succeed at the next level wins out over a whiney GF who doesn't like his BB commitment.

The most important thing is that YOU accept it, and someday when he looks back and wishes he had taken another direction, you will not be to blame if he is unhappy. Just tell him how you feel and let it go at that, no arguments, but lay down the law, he has to be productive in doing something this summer.

quote:

Originally posted by NyMetropolitans22:
If you are interested in playing summer ball once you get to college, is that something u ask the coach during the recruiting process or can any coach find a summer league for a player.

Once you've determined which university you'll be playing for, I'd encourage you to ask the coach if he can help set you up with a college summer team. Tell him that playing in the summer is important to you, and you'd appreciate his assistance in finding a good program where you'll fit in and get plenty of playing time.

Good points on this interesting subject.

Here's one that I am pondering...

Younggunson is a JUCO Soph RHP and from what he has heard from the HC after his fall performance, he should be one of the 3 SP next spring (unless he mucks that up doing something moronic between now and then!)

This past summer he played on a summer collegiate wood bat team in which the league and talent was pretty decent. However, he'd like to play next summer in the CPL.

2 questions:

1 - Since he is at a JUCO this year and not sure yet where he will be attending next year, should he pick up the phone and call some of the HC's or Managers in the CPL and ask to join a team?

2 - Since he may throw WAY more next spring than last (25ip), should he consider a league like CPL? (just for arm/shoulder health)

quote:

2 questions:

1 - Since he is at a JUCO this year and not sure yet where he will be attending next year, should he pick up the phone and call some of the HC's or Managers in the CPL and ask to join a team?

2 - Since he may throw WAY more next spring than last (25ip), should he consider a league like CPL? (just for arm/shoulder health)

Yes and Yes. For example, Spartanburg places lots of kids in that league so they are friendly to Juco's imho.