Summer Contract Lesson learned

mrmom...how's your son? does he have other options...

hmmm....

Thanks for asking, at this time of year most summer college league rosters are filled. But we haven't given up yet. Hopefully things will work out.

MR Mom -

You have a PM

Kelly

mrmom ...

Altho most summer rosters are filled now, remember too that quite a few spots open up later on ... tho your son may need to make a quick decision. With players drafted or too tired after a long season that includes the CWS, roster spots open up all over the place.

Good luck and keep your chin up.

Look into the NECBL - they have added two new teams this year as well a couple of teams last year. Alathough the league is quite competitive, openings seem to be available - and this part of the country in the summer is absolutely beautiful.

Thanks to all for advice, Whoseonfirst and Justmom got your PMs thanks for help will respond today. Hokie 1 did not get your PM?

We've written the president of the league and team. We'll see if they even respond?

Well, as a point of learning to all we got a response from the team here it is.


"Your injury and time lost was a concern for us. We are not in a situation that we can take a chance with what appears to be a significant injury. We did in fact speak with your Coach last week and communicated our sentiments to him as well. Coming back from any surgery requires much rehabilitation time and we can't have someone with a significant injury during their collegiate season occupy a roster spot.

Unfortunately, this season we have had to let a few kids go who's injuries are not even significant as yours was. We have to be in a situation where all roster spots are occupied by players who played all year with no interruptions due to injuries.

"At this point, I have forwarded your information to several teams in this league, as well as other collegiate leagues to possibly secure an opening. Good Luck the rest of the season!

IMHO he says says (in baseball speak)... the contract is our option and is one way binding we're looking to get the hottest guys and if you're not one we're dropping you.

I realize I'm a little biased here, I would like to think this is not the "common practice" with summer teams -- just this one.

Beware all!

mrmom...I suppose they might want to add a phrase in their original contract...

it might read, "Only players with no interruptions in playing time due to injury will be eligible to play on our summer team"

Having not been down this road...I do wish your son the best. How is his rehab going?

good luck...

first of all coaches doing recruiting for NCAA Summer Leagues spend half their time, trying to find out how really good players really are. College coaches exaggarate greatly how good their players are OFTEN. A few clicks on their web site , you find out the player is a back up or has a 6.00 ERA or hitting .200 and you have no interest in them.

Once the season starts you can't send them home for lacking no baseball ability. College coaches will call the summer league coaches and whine because you are not playing their players

Interesting about the Generals. My son signed a contract with them, then several weeks later was offered a "cape" spot. He declined because he had already signed CP contract.

Mrmom you have PM

Not surprisingly this was posted by the generals 5 April....they signed an outfielder.


PETERSBURG, Va. - The Petersburg Generals have announced the signing of New Mexico State outfielder Mark Aranda and infielder Peter Arroyo. The duo will help bolster a lineup that should put Petersburg back in contention for another CPL title.

Mark Aranda, a junior from Albuquerque, NM, has been a pleasant surprise for the Aggies this season. The 5'10" 200 lb right fielder has been a mainstay in a lineup that is arguably one of the best offensive clubs in the nation. Currently, for the Aggies Aranda is batting .397 with 10 doubles, 13 homeruns, and 46 runs batted in.

Peter Arroyo, a junior from Las Vegas, NV, is a versatile infielder that is trying to contribute at several different positions. Arroyo, 6'1" 210, is a big infielder that has demonstrated the potential to be a power infielder. On the season he has appeared in 21 games and is currently batting .235 with 2 homeruns and 11 runs batted in.

General Manager Jeremy Toombs and Head Coach Tim Haynes (VCU) are both anticipating the arrival of these two athletes. Jeremy Toombs stated, "Since our inception, we have never been able to rely on homerun potential. With Aranda and Arroyo, we hope that their power will translate well with the wood. Peter's ability to play several infield positions will be present us with many options to find a lineup that manufactures runs."

I don't have a problem with them wanting the best players they can get -- they should. i have a problem with them wanting and demanding a committment when they know full well they will not honor it if it's not in their best interest.

I'm strongly considering sueing them and the league...any lawyers have an opinion.

I am a tad bit shocked at the dialogue here. It sounds like the coaches were not up front regarding the injury and that is their fault. I coached college for several years and I would expect a summer team to rescind an offer if I sold them on a kid that's not playing or unfortunately gets injured. When the summer teams recruit they do it solely on the word of a coach; and to be perfectly honest with you 90% of all college coaches exaggerate tremendously when it comes to placing players in summer leagues. Word of advice: Texas is starting a new summer wood bat league this summer, with all recruiting donr through their central office. It should grow quickly and compete with the more known summer leagues (i.e. Cape, New England)

Baseba11, and others

It cuts much deeper than that. About a month after my son signed his contract he received an email which had about 20 kids at different colleges in the distribution. It laid out what was expected of the kids and then it asked for sizes personal info etc.

As I check the Petersburg site they now only list 4 kids on the roster. Bottom line this team recruits to ensure they don't get caught short then they let kids go as they re-recruit. Meanwhile, kids think they are on a team only to find out for whatever reason they have been "releaded" from their contract.

Is this the pattern in all summer ball??????

I certainly can't speak for all summer leagues, but the showcase leagues (Cape, New England, CPL, Aslaska) will generally let players go that appear to be not ready for that type of competition. Is it right? Well the answer is No, but it also isn't right for coaches to oversell players to showcase leagues. If a summer team is expecting a lot from a player who the coach sold and when the player doesn't perform up to standards in the summer, then the whole program gets a bad reputation and risk the chance of never having another player placed in that league. You mentioned the fact that they only have 4 names on the roster. Typically summer teams will post players on the roster after they release the player to the media. The way the summer collegiate season works now, most clubs will lose 4-6 players due to several reasons including draft, injury, summer school, home sickness, etc. That's why during the first of May through the middle of May summer teams are looking to add players. It never fails and happens to essentially every team. So your son should certainly find a spot with a good summer team. I hope I am able to offer insight, I have coached in a few of the summer leagues and know how they operate.

MrMom, I think the franchise should have handled the communications here much better. However, my son's experience in summer leagues suggests there are different perspectives.
1. The summer teams want to WIN. Strong competition between franchises.
2. The GM's spend about 8 months of hard work for a 2 month season so they are looking for the best chance of succeeding for all their time and money invested. They do invest LOTS of both. Running a franchise can cost upwards of $150,000 to $200,000 for the summer.
3. Because they play 5-6 games per week and 7-8 if weather is an issue, injuries, especially to pitchers are very tough. Most teams carry 23 players and 10 or 11 pitchers, one extra catcher, infielder and outfielder. They are thin and if a player may not be able to perform at 100%, other players are put at risk from over use also.

4. If your son is healthy and medically cleared and his coach supports him he should be able to find a spot. My son was placed last year in May in one of the best franchises anywhere when a Cape League opportunity did not materialize.
5. Summer leagues can be run just like professional baseball. The NECBL uses that as a model to see if players really want to move on and can handle the experience. If you read a standard professional player contract, every professional team can do pretty much what your son's did.
6. Not all teams are alike. My son's NECBL team had a player with an injury that prevented him from playing. He stayed with the team all summer, worked to rehab, his shoulder never got much better and he was treated like any other team member by the franchise. No--not every team is alike. As other posters have noted, if your son wants to play, is medically cleared and his coach supports him, my bet is they can find him a spot.

This sounds like "Whiney Dad" syndrome. Your child is grown and in college now, there will be several disappointments down the road where you won't be able to fight his battles. The CPL is a showcase league, the next step is the minor leagues. When he can not play on the next level, he is sent home; this is the real world. I am familiar with the Generals operation being that I reside in the Coastal Plain network. They appear to be a class organization and operates on a top level in the CPL. These summer operations are not an American Legion program. Most of these teams have independent owners who expect results right away. These people make a living doing this and 1 bad season means no job. College coaches will always keep injuries and bad performance from the summer teams - sounds like the Generals management was doing their homework. These teams invest in upwards of $100,000 to maintain and operate a summer program and their main objective is to provide players with a taste of minor league life. Also, keep in mind that scouts do not look kindly on "DADS" opinion.

ssdad, A "showcase league"? The CPL is just another summer league of college kids.The CPL is not anywhere near being a Minor League, and when they ask for a written commitment and then back out, they show no class. There are plenty of quality people running teams in other summer leagues, and I hope this young man gets a chance to play for one of them.

"Keep in mind that scouts do not look kindly on DADS opinion" is your low end opinion and not the opinion of scouts with experience and class. Scouts look down on low lifes who try to make a living off young college kids who are not getting paid to play in the summer.

To all,

Thanks for the insight...that's what this site is about. Sharing and learning. "Whiny Dad" closer to uninformed Dad trying to see how it works, and willing to share the experience and do some research to help others so they may benefit from the experience.

I have already stated that I completely understand the motivation of the Generals and completely support their right to get the best players possible. What I object to is the process they are using. Our great country, being what it is, provides a means to get fair consideration if one side has taken advantage of the other.

My interest here is just what's fair...period. SSDAD and I just subscribe to different versions of the "Golden Rule" his version, not without it's own reality is "Those that have the Gold make the rules." My version is the more classic one. So will I protect my son, every day, I'll protect SSDADs son and any others as well.

The answer is simple. The contract should state "We are looking for the best players and reserve the right to drop you at any time for any reason" If that is stated well no problem. Then it must also state " as a player you have the right to play for any team and may end your affilaition with the Generals at your discretion.

The problem is why have a contract under these terms. A contract is a committment by both parties the Generals are not keeping their end of the committment...period!

I know mrmom personally and our sons have played summer ball together. I have personal experience that reflects that mrmom is not "whiny dad."

We talk about commitment on this site all the time. A contract is more than your word. What is expected from the coaches to the players, should also be expected from the players to the coaches.

I agree with mrmom.

best post on the subject, ss.

Update:



Just to update you on how it all finally ended. My son ended up playing in the Valley League, thanks in no small part to Hokieone.

He made the All-star team and is currently in the top ten in hitting in the league. Incidentally, Petersburg (the team that dropped him) is last in their league in hitting.

Does anyone believe in the Baseball Gods? I somehow occasionally envision baseball players (passed) and for that matter fans who might just throw their celestial weight around for the good. Though it doesn't happen often enough every once in awhile what appears to be a "wrong" somehow miraculously turns into a "right."

How about that! Somebody was looking out fer ya.

a silver lining...a bright light at the end of a tunnel...a glass half full...

lessons learned are lessons earned...

hooray for your son...

mrmom---

WAY COOL!! Love a happy ending!

I guess this means you won't be playing for Toombs next year! lol

Glad this one worked out.

BTW, my son was supposed to have played for Asheville of the Southern Collegiate League this summer. He pulled an oblique muscle at the end of the JUCO season, rehabbed it, then hurt it again only a couple of days before he was supposed to leave.

The team there was willing to take him anyway. He didn't think it was right and asked out. As it worked out, it wasn't until a couple of weeks ago that he really was ready to let loose again.

The team there has not been as successful as it could be. And while mrmom is right to point out that adventure, I thought it would be interesting to point out Asheville was a class act when it didn't have to be.

I came across this topic and want to reflect upon my son's experience this summer with the Carlina Warriors of the Southern Collegiate Baseball League. I deal in contracts daily and advised my son with his. We believed everything to be A-OK until about five days before reporting, when things began to change. Instead of a host family, we learned all players would be sequestered at Erskine College, approximately 22 miles east of Anderson SC where the team played their games. We were advised in a letter the cost for staying at Erskine included 40 meals, which balanced out the increase in costs over a host family situation. When my son reported, 40 meals became 30 meals. Players were frequently left to pay for their own meals on the road despite a contractual obligation from the owner to provide meals for players while on the road. The opportunity to work was there, only after the first four weeks when the players were required to work camps for the organization without pay. The team and the league had a bat deal with a company, but the owner of the Warriors stopped supplying bats in late June. I purchased bats for my son during the 4th of July holiday when my wife and I attended a tournament because the team had none.

Having said all this was this a positive experience. Yes and no. My son learned many things. He had an opportunity to be coached by a couple of former major leaguers. These men imparted a tremendous amount of knowledge to any player who was willing to absorb what these men had to say. He learned how to budget time and money. Perhaps the biggest lession he learned is the one we as parents in the business world have known. That not everyone is as good as their word. A contract is not a guarantee. He has taken the negatives and extracted a positive lession from them, feeling he is a better player and a better man for the experience.