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Summer-Select Advice

C ChargerDad10+ posts
I'm confident we're not alone in this scenario, but it's the first time it's ever hit us, so I'm seeking input, advice, or maybe just venting and welcoming feedback.

My 17 yr old has played with various select programs for many years (some top tier, some not), and is currently w/ what I'd consider perhaps a borderline top-tier organization (will be in BBI Premier Division). We began w/ them last Fall.

He's by no means a "phenom," but certainly a capable, versatile, well-rounded player. He starts on his varsity team. He's proven he can compete at whatever levels he's ever been placed.

I became concerned recently as I noticed our roster size grow to 20. Although we didn't try out as such, nor has it ever actually been stated, I'm getting the impression that the coaching staff has "labeled" my son as a PO (Pitcher-Only), and seldom used back-up, back-up, back-up catcher. He's never been that, as a matter of fact, has pitched only the last couple of seasons, although has been very effective.

Our main objective with H.S. summer ball is to get AB's. We also value getting some IP's in, but it's really not a priority. He can play any position on the field, and be at minimum adequate (in attempt to remain objective/unbiased), and perhaps even very good.

At risk of sounding critical of other kids, I see some players "locked-in" to every day/every inning positions, although their performances are frequently less than worthy of that.

We've never been complainers, but then again, never been in the position where it was an issue. He's always been a full-time player with every team he's played. Last thing I want is to be one of those "difficult" parents, or to do/say anything that could affect his PT or perception negatively. I would think, given our investment, we could at minimum count on a fair chance to compete for regular PT, but I'm not seeing it right now.

Although we're fully paid up (you all know these high $$ costs), we will move towards travel dates where expenses will be large, especially with rising travel costs. The notion of investing even more $$ only to ride the pine other than the occasional pitching appearance is not appealing.

Sorry for the long posting, just know many members here may have valuable input. I realize this may come accross as whiney, or some may say "welcome to the world of select baseball," etc. Your thoughts are welcomed.
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D ds15Member
I understand your concerns as a parent but I am sure that the coaches have your childs best interest in mind. Coaches want to win and should play the best kids. My only question for you is that I feel like this post may be a bit premature. How many games has your team actually played? The BBI Premiere schedule is not even out yet, so how do you know where the coaches are planning on playing your son? is this all speculation?
R rmdad10+ posts
Well charger dad I'm not to sure to tell you what to do, my sons team is half price for PO's, travel costs are still the same of course but still its a little better. Also my son enjoys just pitching, whereas it sounds like your son wants to do it all. So my advice would be since you've already paid, would for your son to work harder then all the other kids in his way..but dont really dont know what to tell you
T Texan1,000+ posts
Of that twenty, probably at least six are PO's. So the equivalent roster size for a position player would be fourteen.

If your son is being slotted as a PO, but he wants to play positions, he does have a problem to address. He needs to ask the coaches how they view his role on the team. If they respond PO, then he probably needs to find another team.

Depending upon which team you are dealing with, he might get a refund with a switch. With certain teams, no way.
Last edited by Texan
D Dtiger1,000+ posts
I've always been of the mindset that playing time is to be earned. Meaning, initially I'd hope that everyone gets ample opportunity to show what they've got and then eventually slim it down. Ideally on every roster, everyone has their slot and a role they can fill. I can't honestly tell you that it seems like your son will get that opportunity, and if you wait, you're out of luck.

I say approach the coaches, in as humble of tone as possible, and voice your concerns that way. Ah, better yet, have your son do it. As long as he's respectable about it, any coach in every organization I am aware of would answer your son honestly. Depending on that answer, maybe you know what to do.

I feel that competition for playing time brings out the best in players as long as it's handled with respect. I'd advise to not shy away from that.
T Texan1,000+ posts
If the club has done a good job in holding/evaluating tryouts, then they should not have any player on the team that doesn't deserve decent playing time. You pick 'em, you play 'em. If a player is so bad he doesn't "earn" playing time, then the club made a major mistake in selecting that player. The player did not make a mistake in accepting a spot that was offered, the club erred in offering the spot.
R rmdad10+ posts
I agree with dtiger.. Coaches like it most when they talk to the kid versus the parents(as long as they do it in a respectful manner that is). Or like I said earlier, let him beat out everyone else for that position. Let him work hard and earn that position. Like some people said earlier all kids should play but there is no way that every single kid can get split 50/50 playing time. Just too many factors. It will be up to your son wether he wants to be on the negitive or positive end of the playing time.
C cougarbaseball100+ posts
Based on your handle, I am guessing that your son and mine maybe on the same summer team. Although I agree with your sentiment on the size of the roster we have to have tons of pitching in order to compete. In turn this squeezes some kids on playing time. I think it may be early in the process to wonder on playing time since we have had one practice and really don't begin game wise until June 5th-8th but like you said if you wait to long into it you are pretty much screwed.... I like the idea of Pitchers Only paying less since they will see fewer innings but this organization does not offer that.
A ACowboyFan100+ posts
CD,

DBAT told my son upfront that he would be a pithcer only. I didn't like it, he didn't like it but most of these guys (not just DBAT) do know a little bit more than we do about what is best for the players and there teams. After some very good conversations with the coaches my son decided that staying with DBAT was well worth being a PO and at full price.

This HS season he basically was a PO because that is what our HS coach likes as well. I know he can hit, he knows he can hit and play the field as well as the other options but that doesn't really matter. The other top pitcher at his school can flat out rack the ball and he is now a PO as well for the HS team. From what I have seen it is the right call for my son, right now he is really focusing on long toss, weights and bullpens / lessons. He will be able to really focus on being the best pitcher he can be ( "learn his craft" is the term Catcher used). His legs will be fresh, as will be his arm and his velocity will be more consistent. If he is to catch ligthing in a bottle, this is his best approach.

The main reason DBAT gave for his PO status was that that is where he will play in college if he gets that chance, pitching will be his chance to play at the next level. This is as clear as day to me and to him roght now.

The roster sizes at U17 are all 20+ with 5 or more PO's on each roster, this is what it takes to win. Winning is importaqnt because it increasing the chances of the coaches / scouts getting to see your son play. My advice is to have the conversation with the coaches, you might like what you hear. Either way you will be able to make an educated decision. I bet if all your son needs is AB's to remain sharp for the HS season and he doesn't want to play at the next level then the team will refund you the money and let you find a team (they might even help you) where he will play the field and get 60 to 80 AB's this summer.

If he has a chance to play at the next level and it is as a pitcher, embrace the PO role or reduced PT + Mainly Pitching role and focus on winning and being part of a winning team. If not, it is OK to go some where else.

PS - I do still enjoy watching the few AB's he gets but not as much as watching him pitch.
cheapseatscheapseats1,000+ posts
ACF - Good post....

A wise old poster on here once told me that the reason certain organizations like to have pitchers only is because the organization doesn't want to take at bats away from those being recruited for their bats. It makes sense.

It is tough (expensive) going to an out of town tournaments where your pitcher only plays only one game but I have made it a point to be just as supportive for EVERY game, not just the ones my po is playing in.

It is helpful to know their role before you sign on then you can set your expectations accordingly. Chargerdad, I realize that may be too late if the organization has selected him as a pitcher only but it is worth having charger son talk it over with the coach to make sure everyone is on the same page.
Last edited by cheapseats
11sdad11sdad500+ posts
My son is a pitcher only and this is how I look at it.

The one game per week he pitches he throws somewhere around 100 pitches to show the coaches and or scouts what he has.

It may take a fielder a week to be involved in 100 pitches (in the field and at bat)to show what he can do.

So both kids get to show their stuff over a weeks time frame with the same amount of pitches.
C ChargerDad10+ posts
Mr. Guthrie,
Don't think for a moment that I didn't anticipate that my post would fall under the golden, sage, omnipitant scrutiny you tend to contribute. It's regretable that you don't lend your efforts to contructive feedback, rather than your expected tired sarcastic attempts at making your points while using criticism and insults. I'm aware that you are young, inexperienced, and a new parent, so I'll cut you some slack and simply give a knowing nod that someday you'll mature and learn.

I could attempt to provide a lesson on appropriate grammatical usage of personal pronouns such as we, our, we're, but I realize the student must be willing to learn.

Regardless, you may continue to live in this world you've created for yourself (and often boosted by some posters here) where you sit high atop the unwashed with your blessed, immaculately obtained knowledge on how the rest of us should handle this "youth sports and parenting" topic. As for the rest of us idiots and fools, we'll just have to continue to work our way through, sometimes making good decisions, sometimes the wrong ones, but hopefully raising productive, responsible, good kids. Is it conceivable to you that perhaps my kid has these characteristics, and that if you knew him, you might be impressed? Perhaps not. He's not perfect. But any coach he's played for will tell you he's a hard working, maximum effort, respectful, and well behaved kid.

Oh, and you might want to consider that you really don't know me, or others you openly criticize here. Could it be that my baseball and life experiences are every bit as extensive as yours? (Is that even possible?) I know my parenting experiences are, and at least I have the results to show for it. I've made mistakes, and will make more. I too was once young like you. Maybe I'm fortunate that I didn't have an internet message board to spew my opinions and criticisms of others.

And finally, I don't kid myself that you won't have a clever, down-home, aw shucks last word response as demeaning as ever. I can live with that. I wish you the best in raising your family, and I'm confident you won't make as many mistakes as I have.
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by ChargerDad:
Mr. Guthrie,
Don't think for a moment that I didn't anticipate that my post would fall under the golden, sage, omnipitant scrutiny you tend to contribute. It's regretable that you don't lend your efforts to contructive feedback, rather than your expected tired sarcastic attempts at making your points while using criticism and insults. I'm aware that you are young, inexperienced, and a new parent, so I'll cut you some slack and simply give a knowing nod that someday you'll mature and learn.

I could attempt to provide a lesson on appropriate grammatical usage of personal pronouns such as we, our, we're, but I realize the student must be willing to learn.

Regardless, you may continue to live in this world you've created for yourself (and often boosted by some posters here) where you sit high atop the unwashed with your blessed, immaculately obtained knowledge on how the rest of us should handle this "youth sports and parenting" topic. As for the rest of us idiots and fools, we'll just have to continue to work our way through, sometimes making good decisions, sometimes the wrong ones, but hopefully raising productive, responsible, good kids. Is it conceivable to you that perhaps my kid has these characteristics, and that if you knew him, you might be impressed? Perhaps not. He's not perfect. But any coach he's played for will tell you he's a hard working, maximum effort, respectful, and well behaved kid.

Oh, and you might want to consider that you really don't know me, or others you openly criticize here. Could it be that my baseball and life experiences are every bit as extensive as yours? (Is that even possible?) I know my parenting experiences are, and at least I have the results to show for it. I've made mistakes, and will make more. I too was once young like you. Maybe I'm fortunate that I didn't have an internet message board to spew my opinions and criticisms of others.

And finally, I don't kid myself that you won't have a clever, down-home, aw shucks last word response as demeaning as ever. I can live with that. I wish you the best in raising your family, and I'm confident you won't make as many mistakes as I have.


Now your talkin'.......

With the vocab your rappin' here.......

Certainly you have the intellect to lead your son in the right direction.

Just remember, "we" (as in you and I) are the least important elements in the big picture.

You see, whether he continues his playing career as a "PO" (you taught me this one) won't matter 10 years from now most likely. It's whether or not he had the opportunity to make a decision for himself and how to continue to progress as a young athlete and a young man.

I don't know if this constitutes as an "aw shucks" response, but I certainly enjoyed the opportunity of competitive lingo..........

That's all I have these days. I'm a fat, old, and tired father who has grown rather frustrated with my new adventures in fatherhood.

Frustration stemming from the fact that my son will not adhere to my recommendations of becoming a switch hitter. I fear the fact that if he doesn't accept my grand knowledge, he will surely become the...................

Dreaded PO. Big Grin

I love this game regards,
Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
quote:
Just remember, "we" (as in you and I) are the least important elements in the big picture.


Disagree.

The concept of "we" (as in father and son) is extremely important at this stage in life, when sons don't necessarily make the wisest decisions without the experience, insights, and input of their parents.

Take my 18-year-old son, for instance, who in the early stages of recruiting wanted to play for the college program nearest his hunting lease and attend a school with the easiest academics. With valued imput from "us" (his parents), he was increasingly able to see the big picture and readjust his priorities.

I know many other teenage sons who, with parental guidance, shifted their thinking and matured in their outlook with regard to several important aspects of life.

Pitcher Only can be a fine way to go, but it's crucial that the parent help the son in discerning what is best. By accepting a PO deal, the player is essentially opting out of the opportunity to be a 2-way prospect, which certain D1 baseball programs are pursuing with increasing vigor since they are now limited to 27 athletic scholarship players.

"We" is also important in the sense that the parent(s) is paying for all the fees and travel expenses and giving up a considerable amount of vacation time to help his son realize his goal.

I believe that ChargerDad has every right -- indeed an obligation -- to think in terms of "we" and not just "he."
Last edited by Infield08
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Infield08:
quote:
Just remember, "we" (as in you and I) are the least important elements in the big picture.


Disagree.

The concept of "we" (as in father and son) is extremely important at this stage in life, when sons don't necessarily make the wisest decisions without the experience, insights, and input of their parents.

Take my 18-year-old son, for instance, who in the early stages of recruiting wanted to play for the college program nearest his hunting lease and attend a school with the easiest academics. With valued imput from "us" (his parents), he was increasingly able to see the big picture and readjust his priorities.

I know many other teenage sons who, with parental guidance, shifted their thinking and matured in their outlook with regard to several important aspects of life.

Pitcher Only can be a fine way to go, but it's crucial that the parent help the son in discerning what is best. By accepting a PO deal, the player is essentially opting out of the opportunity to be a 2-way prospect, which certain D1 baseball programs are pursuing with increasing vigor since they are now limited to 27 athletic scholarship players.

"We" is also important in the sense that the parent(s) is paying for all the fees and travel expenses and giving up a considerable amount of vacation time to help his son realize his goal.

I believe that ChargerDad has every right -- indeed an obligation -- to think in terms of "we" and not just "he."


Infield08,

I can certainly agree with your outlook.

Although, my use of the word "we" was more in the present tense.

Suggesting that what deems to be important to you, I, fathers, mothers, and "us" today really isn't as crucial as it seems in the big picture.

Of course having proper parental influences is as valuable as anything in life for a teenager...

But sometimes a mama bird has to kick the baby bird out of the nest to see if it can fly on it's own.

It's only then, "they" will know if the young bird can spread it's wings.

Not that it should be this way, but I can count on one hand the games my parents attended in HS or summer ball.

It all goes back to the young adult and/or athlete.

Do they really want it?

If they do it all works out in the end whether it's in baseball or any avenue in life.

And I'm sure Chargerson has been guided in the right direction so far to allow for proper decisions.

I'm so glad "we" can have these discussions regards,
Last edited by Ken Guthrie
P1tickethead110P1tickethead110100+ posts
OK I read the last 6 or 7 posts and I now have tired head. KG in your comments about using the "we" word. To some extent we all live our lives through our kids. Some take it further than others, but we all do it. If there were more parents like us out there that use the "we" when talking about our kids there would be a lot less crime and a lot less kids in "the system". When I see parents saying "we "us" and "our" I see good parents that are into what their kids do 100%, and thats a good thing.

Ok off the soap box now. And I have double super duper tired head now.
Last edited by P1tickethead110
C ChargerDad10+ posts
We (oops, there goes that word again) decided to stay dedicated to the program, to get the most out of it, regardless of my concerns. I encouraged my son to work hard as always, put all his efforts into improving no matter what his actual PT would be, and things would work out for the best.

Thus far (only about 11 games in), I think he's done well to prove his worth/abilities and has had fairly regular PT, and performed very well. He splits time at C, has pitched 2 games, and a little time at SS. We just returned from an out of town tournament where the team did well, without 3-4 regular players attending. We're not a great team, but just trying to compete with some top-level teams. All the kids showed good effort and spirit against what I thought was a couple of top-level teams stacked w/ college talent.

For what it's worth, I did get "confirmation" that he was being considered a PO, but fortunately I think once his coaches saw his other abilities, they have maybe moved from that thought. So far so good, but no matter what, I wanted to stress the need to stay dedicated to the program, which he is. Thanks for asking, Bob15.

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