sun ball in the outfield

For me, it’s a rarity to score a hit because of sun or wind. Of course it makes a difference what level of ball you’re talking about, but in general, a HSV fielder should be able to adjust to all but the very worst situations.

Generally speaking, a ball lost in the sun, if not dropped or booted, is a hit. It is just like a bad hop.

I agree with Jdawg.

Just like a wind blown ball that drops in. Bad hops and weather related things can sometimes help a batter and keep the fielder from making a routine play. I generally side with the batter on these kind of things, unless of course my son is pitching and has a no hitter going. Just kidding Stats.

Well maybe . . . I guess I might have to get some input from unbiased observers on a ball in play that could break up a no hitter, no matter who's pitching.

I generally score hit on the sun ball unless the OF still makes a play on the ball and gets close to it.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:
I generally score hit on the sun ball unless the OF still makes a play on the ball and gets close to it.

One of the problems with questions like this from people who don’t often keep score is, there are balls affected by the sun, and balls that the sun makes extremely difficult to play, thus requiring more than ORDINARY effort.

So what ends up happening, is all the factors need to be considered. FI, if a player doesn’t have sunglasses on and he’s playing a sun field, he’s really blown giving me the opportunity to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Here’s another example. Our field is set such that at about 6PM at this time of the year, the sun is dead in the LF’s face on any kind of line drive, but fly balls aren’t really a problem, given the fielder is paying attention. Now if there’s a line drive to left and the fielder just misses it but would have normally gotten there, I realize he could have well gotten a bad jump because of the sun and I’ll give him a break.

But if it’s a fly ball with a lot of arc and he’s looking like he’s got plenty of time to settle under it and position himself to make a catch, then suddenly ducks away, he better hope the ball doesn’t land within 20’. I’ve taken the time to go out to the different locations on the field, and I’ve caught a few fly balls in my time, so trying to get by with the ol’ duck-n-pray ain’t gonna get it. Plus, I’ve seen a heck of a lot of balls hit to those spots in those situations during the last 5 years, so I’ve got a pretty good idea what ORDINARY effort is, and its really rare that its duck-n-pray.

When it comes to these kinds of calls, so much depends on the scorer’s experience and how much s/he’s paying attention. All I do is give my honest assessment based on my experience, then I mark it. I don’t lose sleep over it one way or the other, because I’ve done my best. I give scorers the same courtesy I expect, but there’s simply not as many balls affected by weather as many folks think.

quote:

Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:
But if it’s a fly ball with a lot of arc and he’s looking like he’s got plenty of time to settle under it and position himself to make a catch, then suddenly ducks away, he better hope the ball doesn’t land within 20’. I’ve taken the time to go out to the different locations on the field, and I’ve caught a few fly balls in my time, so trying to get by with the ol’ duck-n-pray ain’t gonna get it.

Stats,
Not sure I get what you are saying here... if a player settles under it (or in the vicinity for that matter) and then suddenly ducks away, isn't that a sure sign that the sun became the primary factor as to why the ball was not caught? Why else would an OF "duck-n-pray"?
And if the sun is the primary reason the ball is not caught, isn't it scored a hit?

As a former centerfielder, I kind of agree with stats on the sudden duck away because those are ones that the player was lining up on but didn't position himself at an angle away from the sun or use his hand or glove to block the sun. Those balls can and should be caught. The sun really isn't an excuse on high flies, mainly line drives are the problem.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Keep it coming. I did a search prior to posting and the only other post seems to be split on this as well, although I think most lean toward giving sun balls hits.
I know an OF should be able to use the glove to block a fly ball but our right field as well as others in our league are notorious for having direct sun. Even the best OF's struggle regularly in spite of using the glove to shield. So, we have to deal with this from a scorekeeping standpoint and three qualified coaches can never seem to agree on this topic.

quote:

Originally posted by cabbagedad:
Thanks for the feedback guys. Keep it coming. I did a search prior to posting and the only other post seems to be split on this as well, although I think most lean toward giving sun balls hits.
I know an OF should be able to use the glove to block a fly ball but our right field as well as others in our league are notorious for having direct sun. Even the best OF's struggle regularly in spite of using the glove to shield. So, we have to deal with this from a scorekeeping standpoint and three qualified coaches can never seem to agree on this topic.

The issue isn’t whether or not a fielder actually hindered by the sun should be given an error or not. It whether the ball should have been caught with ORDINARY EFFORT. Just because a player is hindered by the sun or wind doesn’t mean anything they don’t catch is a hit. If that were true, darn near everything would be a hit because there’s almost always some wind, or the sun or the lights are always shining.

The issue is, would an average fielder in that league have made the catch. Sometimes it can be a difficult distinction to make, but that’s where the distinction has to be made. And that’s why each individual hit ball has to be dealt with individually.

Look, every field in the world, other than those covered ones, have an issue with sun at some time of the day, so it isn’t that you’re area’s fields are anything special. Here’s an excerpt from OBR.

1.04 THE PLAYING FIELD. …
It is desirable that the line from home base through the pitchers plate to second base shall run East-Northeast. …

Now why do you think that’s in there? I can assure you its not to pay homage to some religion. Its because that would minimize the effects of the sun for the times most games are played. Now how many amateur fields are built in such a way as to lessen the impact of the sun? I guarantee you that most HS field aren’t. Heck, a line from our V home plate to through the rubber heads south-southeast, on the JV field it heads north-northwest, and on the V SB field its south-southeast.

When you compute where the sun is at the time most HS games are played, our V field is Hell on wheels for the LF, 3b, and SS. For the JV field, it isn’t until just before sunset that the sun bothers anyone, and then its only throws coming from center to 2nd or 1st.

In the end, the scorer has to simply do hat s/he he thinks is right for the particular hit ball.

The problem we all have on this board is that we're asked our opinion on scoring plays we didn't actually see. So much of scoring is applying ordinary effort criteria to what we see. If we can't see it, we just go by what is described.

Some more of it is "how do other guys do it?"

Most of what we see "other guys doing it" is MLB games, so we tend to gravitate towards scoring that way. I also attend a bunch of college games every year. I'm amazed at the latitude that D1 scorers give to players. Plays I would score as errors in HS are scored hits at D1. Sometimes I don't get it.

Just my opinion, but a fly ball / line drive that is lost in the sun is likely a hit at the HS level. Again, I apply my ordinary effort rule to every play I see and generalizations always seem to spur significant discussion.