Skip to main content

41 replies

Supination on slider...

deemaxdeemax500+ posts
......is not the best way to throw this pitch IMO. Also it is not how the top slider pitchers in the world do it. I used to teach the slider like a karate chop, as do most instructors until I dug a little deeper and realized that the supinated karate chop is a slower weaker version of what big leagers throw. You can make the ball slide by throwing the karate chop, but the break is not as late or sharp, and the velocity is not were it could be.

If you are a pitcher that does not have the right arm action to throw a good curveball (or have a really low 3/4 to sidearm armslot), and your arm is in shape and good enough to throw over 83mph you may want to experiment with this pitch.

-Hold the ball off center toward thumb side and fairly deep (experiment with seams, and how offcenter you can get the ball without losing balance and control of the pitch)
-Throw the ball with fastball effort and handspeed
-Make an effort to throw this pitch downhill.
-Make sure your hand stays on top of the ball (no karate chop) while you make the ball release off of the thumb side of your index finger. You will be able to feel a great deal of fricton on the side of your index finger when thrown correctly.

I have thrown both, and IMO there is no comparison.
Last edited {1}
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

CADadCADad5,000+ posts
For me, and I realize this is hard on the arm, I simply threw a fastball except I twisted, i.e. supinated, the wrist at the very end. This is the way I see most MLB pitchers throwing their slider in clips. My curve was the classic 12-6 which I rolled around the "barrel" with a little extra velocity and some twist when I needed a sharper break so there was a clear difference between the curve and the slider.

I'm assuming that you meant supinate rather than pronate as one pronates more than normal to throw a screwball.
Last edited by CADad
T Texan1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by deemax:


-Hold the ball off center toward thumb side and fairly deep (experiment with seams, and how offcenter you can get the ball without losing balance and control of the pitch)
-Throw the ball with fastball effort and handspeed
-Make an effort to throw this pitch downhill.
-Make sure your hand stays on top of the ball (no karate chop) while you make the ball release off of the thumb side of your index finger. You will be able to feel a great deal of fricton on the side of your index finger when thrown correctly.


Cut fastball, from the description.
deemaxdeemax500+ posts
quote:
Cut fastball, from the description.


Thats how I describe the slider I learned, teach, and throw... It is a slider. The cutter is similar, harder, with a little less break and held with a slightly different grip.

The line between slider and cutter is very grey and a little fuzzy (within a couple mph's and a few degrees of break). How do you get "Cut fasball, from the description"...How do you describe slider?

The cutter has little less slide. Wink
Last edited by deemax
deemaxdeemax500+ posts
quote:
The slider is thrown with supination.

It can be, but I dont agree with "is"... IMO wether a pitch is thrown with supination or not shouldnt define it, the balls action should. Also IMO increased supination on the slider is a less effective way to make the ball spin fast, and travel at roughly 90% of the velocity of the fastball.

The difference im refering to would be the amount the ball is off centered (cut vs. slide),how the finger pressure is applied, the gap space between the fingers, and the effort and velo put into the pitch. (exception being really low 3/4 guys and sidearmers as previously stated).
Last edited by deemax
MTHMTH10,000+ posts
It sounds to me like you're talking about pre-supinating a little, but you're not really supinating (door-knobbing) as you throw the pitch. And if you're pulling down the side of the ball, i.e. throwing it off the index finger, you're already into pronation at or shortly after release. This is certainly the safest way to throw the slider.



quote:
Originally posted by deemax:
......
-Hold the ball off center toward thumb side and fairly deep (experiment with seams, and how offcenter you can get the ball without losing balance and control of the pitch)
-Throw the ball with fastball effort and handspeed
-Make an effort to throw this pitch downhill.
-Make sure your hand stays on top of the ball (no karate chop) while you make the ball release off of the thumb side of your index finger. You will be able to feel a great deal of fricton on the side of your index finger when thrown correctly.

I have thrown both, and IMO there is no comparison.
MTHMTH10,000+ posts
It would be nice to see a couple of frames after this shot, but it sure looks like he is pulling down the outside rather than doorknobbing it. A picture a couple frames after this would show whether he was into pronation or supination.

As I recall there is a series of high speed still pictures of Curt Schilling in the Louisville Slugger Complete Book of Pitching that shows a slider thrown in the manner I think you are describing.
deemaxdeemax500+ posts
Dont worry XV, some folks on here dont know how to throw a slider, curveball, or split yet they like to comment on them as if they have thrown one before.

Jeremy Bonderman was voted the best slider in the AL/Smoltz in the NL.
I will take what they are doing physically over someones uneducated guess.
Last edited by deemax
T Texan1,000+ posts
Don't confuse people, dm. I don't advocate the slider, due to its supination.

We are talking about semantics here. A pitch thrown with fb mechanics is a type of fb. Seems pretty simple. Now it may be a cut fb, but it is a fb. A cut fb has similarities with a slider.

By definition, a slider is thrown by supinating the wrist.

Nothing wrong with a cut fb for those who can master it.
Last edited by Texan
deemaxdeemax500+ posts
quote:
Don't confuse people, dm. I don't advocate the slider, due to its supination.


You not knowing what a slider is, or how to throw it is the only thing confusing people. This above quote proves your ignorance towards the pitch. Its understandable why you dont advocate a pitch you dont know how to throw.

If anyone other than Texan is confused by Steve Carltons slider please let me know and I will help clarify.

quote:
By definition, a slider is thrown by supinating the wrist.


I would love for any examples of guys with good sliders who throw it with supination.
Last edited by deemax
W wogdoggy500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by deemax:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc_K:
Great video XV

Thanks for that link deemax.


Carltons advice on the slider flat out works. I first taught myself this version, then others. Its results will speak for itself.



deemax speaketh the ABSOLUTE truth,,goe to CARLTON'S website and see the CORRECT way to throw it,,and boy does it work!!!!
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Just a matter of definition. Carlton calls it a slider, I'd call it a cutter. However, I think Carlton has somewhat stronger credentials than I do. Smile

There's often a difference between what people say and what people do. Some of the clips I've seen of Rivera's cutter show him supinating a bit.

We don't know if Carlton twisted his wrist a bit or not when he actually threw the pitch and I haven't seen any set of images that shows decisively that somebody is or isn't twisting their wrist when throwing a cutter or a slider and that includes the clips of Rivera I was talking about. I got the impression he was twisting his wrist a bit but I wouldn't stake my life on it.

The bottom line is that if you can get good movement on the ball with that grip and a fastball motion then it is a great way to go and why risk damage to your arm twisting the wrist and who cares if you call it a slider or a cutter?
Last edited by CADad
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
When I threw my slider the break tended to vary a bit from outing to outing, probably because I did twist the wrist a bit. One day I'd be throwing a hard slider and another day I'd find myself throwing more of a slurve.

Like a lot of things in baseball you can get different answers by asking different experts. Those of us who aren't the experts pick the answer that fits our beliefs the best and go with it. In the end it doesn't matter what you call it. It matters how well it works.

Rivera's cutter breaks more than some pitchers' sliders. Rodriguez's slider is a hard curve in my book, but a slider according to the announcers. There really isn't any one answer.
X XV100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CADad:
When I threw my slider the break tended to vary a bit from outing to outing, probably because I did twist the wrist a bit. One day I'd be throwing a hard slider and another day I'd find myself throwing more of a slurve.

Like a lot of things in baseball you can get different answers by asking different experts. Those of us who aren't the experts pick the answer that fits our beliefs the best and go with it. In the end it doesn't matter what you call it. It matters how well it works.

Rivera's cutter breaks more than some pitchers' sliders. Rodriguez's slider is a hard curve in my book, but a slider according to the announcers. There really isn't any one answer.


Actually, you are right. Rodriguez's slider is actually a curveball. There is only one answer in this case. Notice that his forearm is in a supinated position before it is accelerating forward.

Last edited by XV
Next

Add Reply

Post
High Level Throwing

Driveline Baseball

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×