Supplements? Trouble?

It was an Oregon High school.

.

Around McMinnville or Newberg if I remember right. Anyone? Follow up?



.

It was from creatine supplements in the Oregon case. Dangerous stuff. It was interesting to read in the Los Angeles times Matt Barkley being quoted how much better he felt after quitting the creatine. Lost 10lbs and was much more mobile.

.

Thanks for the update eatersbaseball.




.

quote:

Originally posted by eatersbaseball:
It was from creatine supplements in the Oregon case. Dangerous stuff. It was interesting to read in the Los Angeles times Matt Barkley being quoted how much better he felt after quitting the creatine. Lost 10lbs and was much more mobile.

Creatine is probably the most studied supplement ever. To date, there is no, I repeat no, evidence that creatine is damaging to the body in any way.

My next comments will speak to what creatine does and why Matt Barkley made his comments.

Creatine superhydrates the muscle. It means that it adds water to the membranes surrounding the muscle so that in times of stress, the muscle remains hydrated for a longer period of time and therefore is able to operate at peak performance for that longer hydration period. The reason it can be beneficial to the weight training athlete, is that it allows his muscle not to lift more weight, but to gain more repetitions at the maximum weight before muscle failure, which in turn helps the muscle build itself faster, which eventually means more strength.

To the kidney problems. Simple. When taking creatine, you MUST hydrate and hydrate regularly. Because the creatine is taking hydration to the muscle membrane at a greater rate, it can rob the organs (kidneys) of the fluids necessary for regular function. It is not the creatine causing kidney problems anymore than it is car keys that cause auto accidents. In both cases, it is the operator. All of this can be simply avoided by proper hydration. A 2002 study of D1 athletes across all sports found that over 80% of them lacked normal hydration. Lack of hydration is the #1 factor in muscle fatigue. Want to see your athlete do better, make sure he hydrates. (See, Advanced Sports Nutrition; Dan Bernadot)

The reason Barkley felt better is the same reason most athletes stop creatine before competition and only use it during the training phase. It adds bulky water weight. That bulk limits flexibility, range of motion and the added weight can slow you down.

Another great misunderstanding, is about what creatine is. It's a naturally forming enzyme found in red meats. That's the reason not all athletes are helped by creatine supplementation. If your diet is already heavy in red meats, your body may have already reached full creatine capacity. Creatine is not stored in your system, excess is secreted in urine.

Creatine is not a great evil and neither is it dangerous. Using any supplement before knowing what it does, why and how it may affect you is what is dangerous.

.

"make sure he hydrates."

Coming from an expert fish guy!

Seriously CPLZ...thanks for the insight. I think you would agree that this unfortunate situation should not be occuring.



.

So glad CPLZ already touched on this. People that research these things are incredibly frustrated when people villainize legitimate supplements like creatine. If you're ever curious about these things, I research anything I use on bodybuilding.com's forums. There's a search feature and while you may have to wade through some nonsense, when it comes down to it the reputable posters on that website always demand studies to prove the worth of supplements/ingredients of supplements.

Creatine (monohydrate), like CPLZ said, is extremely well studied and is proven to work. Also, while creatine is present in red meat, you'd have to eat so much red meat to meet saturation for most people that it would be darn near impossible to reach saturation without supplementation.

And hydration is ALWAYS important. Creatine just ups the demand for water. Being dehydrated entails more than just cramps. You may not have that symptom. Dehydration may manifest itself without such obvious effects, such as strength loss.

CPLZ provided a pretty good summay of what I discovered researching creatine a few years ago. 4rdGen Mom is a Registered Dietitian and an Exercise Pyhsiologist and she concluded the same thing. One piece of research I came across related to the self reporting D1 athletes did on there use of steriods. There was a steady drop in those saying they were taking steriods and the biggest reason was that legal supplements like creatine were giving them the results they were looking for.

quote:

CPLZ provided a pretty good summay of what I discovered researching creatine a few years ago.

I agree in this instance and regarding most supplements. Do you research and understand there are no silver bullets. Life is all about balance, I wouldn't recommend going over board on anything.

Great Post CPLZ.That needed clarification.

The long-term effects of creatine use have not been fully examined, and to ignore the potential concerns that surround this supplement could place athletes on the path to serious health problems. Creatine is an unregulated substance that is marketed to and used in large doses by teenagers without proper medical supervision Getting information on supplements from body building forums probably isn't where one should look when researching the medical side effects of any supplement. A good place to start is the American College of Sports Medicine which has done some short term studies on creatine and athletic performance. Unregulated supplements vary in quality and come from factories all over the world. As of this date we do not have a sufficient system in place in the US to guarantee that the dose of creatine in the supplement you buy is accurate as labeled. That in itself should cause anyone seeking the magic bullet pause, especially if giving that bullet to a minor.

I agree with CPLZ.

It's important when using a creatine supplement (or any supplement) to seek the advice of someone who has done research and is educated about it's use (how to use it properly), examples would be college athletic trainers, not the sales guys at GNC.

I had an interesting discussion the other day with son regarding the use of supplements. He says there is so much concern over their use and contents, what folks should be alarmed about is the overuse of OTC meds like aleve, motrin and ibuprophen, that it is actually abused by most during season. These type of drugs have a tendency to cause serious medical issues later on.

I'm more worried about all the Ritalin floating around at exam time.

A friend at work bulked (puffed) up on creatine before radiation treatment. He was in good shape, but on the smallish side. He figured the bigger he was, the longer it would take to wither away.

He made it through OK and (he says) he's fine, now. He looks good. I have no idea if the creatine helped him. He thinks it did.

There are alot of great clinical uses for creatine when medically indicated.

.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm sticking with this...









.

I'm with you Woody

Remember folks, some MLB teams want to know if you are using or have used this substance. It was on one of son's MLB questionnaire. Why they want to know, I don't know, but it means something to them.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm sticking with this...

We keep our ovaltine (malt) next to the Folger's, Swiss Miss, and gigantic jar of whey protein.

quote:

Originally posted by eatersbaseball:
The long-term effects of creatine use have not been fully examined, and to ignore the potential concerns that surround this supplement could place athletes on the path to serious health problems. Creatine is an unregulated substance that is marketed to and used in large doses by teenagers without proper medical supervision. ... . As of this date we do not have a sufficient system in place in the US to guarantee that the dose of creatine in the supplement you buy is accurate as labeled. That in itself should cause anyone seeking the magic bullet pause, especially if giving that bullet to a minor.

Again, please reference, Advanced Sports Nutrition by Dan Bernadot. Some studies have been ongoing almost 30 years now with zero incidents of creatine showing any negative effect. The dosing of creatine is irrelevant because any excess creatine is immediately expelled in urine.

Villifying or even warning people against creatine usage is simply inaccurate. There is no evidence anywhere to support such thinking. If you want to raise a warning flag, lets educate athletes about how to hydrate. Lack of hydration has shown itself to have negative long term effects on the body, there is proof of that.

quote:

Originally posted by Prime9:
I agree in this instance and regarding most supplements. Do you research and understand there are no silver bullets. Life is all about balance, I wouldn't recommend going over board on anything.

I do believe the modern athlete has a tendency to go overboard with supplementation. Most, not all, but most of the bodies needs can be met with simple nutrition. Things like multi-vitamins and creatine are supplements that can make a difference.

The #1 legal performance enhancer according to Bernadot? Caffeine. The NCAA tests for caffeine, but in HUGE, HUGE doses (I think it was anything above 1600 mg is illegal). The problem with caffeine is that your body builds up a resistance to it. My oldest tried it in a few bullpens years ago and didn't like it because he's normally a high strung kid as it was and it made him a little jumpy and more scatterbrained than he already is. He didn't like his lack of focus. My younger uses it in track meets as a high jumper and really likes it and believes it helps him. Neither uses caffeine so the effects of a couple of pills, equivalent to 2 cups of coffee, is noticeable to them.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm sticking with this...









.

Hey Woody...still got your Little Orphan Annie secret decoder? haha.."b-e-s-u-r-e-t-o-d-r-i-n-k-y-o-u-r-o-v-a-l-t-i-n-e"

You can purchase Muscle Milk Collegiate on line . Some of these " puffed up " HS players might be surprised when they have to pee in the cup in college .

quote:

Originally posted by nopunchiejudys:
You can purchase Muscle Milk Collegiate on line . Some of these " puffed up " HS players might be surprised when they have to pee in the cup in college .

Can you explain the above? What they look for is anabolic steroids and recreational drugs.

.

"Hey Woody...still got your Little Orphan Annie secret decoder?"

Nope. Nighttime incontinence...that's really the only thing I get out of my Ovaltine© anymore!




.

The dosing of creatine is irrelevant because any excess creatine is immediately expelled in urine.

Sorry, I respectfully disagree with you. What you describe is a biological process driven by organs that are necessary to sustain life.
Dosing is critically important.
There have been no creatine studies done on human beings under the age of 19, who at this point are now major consumers.
I understand your point about hydration,but the human body can be tricky and the cascade of mediccal events that have taken place in numerous anecdotal cases could be the cause of dehydation, improper dosing, impure product, underlying undiagnosed disease, ect.

quote:

Creatine is probably the most studied supplement ever. To date, there is no, I repeat no, evidence that creatine is damaging to the body in any way...

To the kidney problems. Simple. When taking creatine, you MUST hydrate and hydrate regularly. Because the creatine is taking hydration to the muscle membrane at a greater rate, it can rob the organs (kidneys) of the fluids necessary for regular function. It is not the creatine causing kidney problems anymore than it is car keys that cause auto accidents. In both cases, it is the operator. All of this can be simply avoided by proper hydration. A 2002 study of D1 athletes across all sports found that over 80% of them lacked normal hydration...

Creatine is not a great evil and neither is it dangerous. Using any supplement before knowing what it does, why and how it may affect you is what is dangerous.

CPLZ,
I don't know anything about Creatine but need to start learning as son is starting to ask about such things. Thank you for sharing your valued knowledge.
You state that there is no evidence that it does damage to the body, but then say that if one doesn't hydrate properly while taking it, the kidneys can be robbed of necessary fluids to function regularly.

I guess what really concerns me is this -

I know of quite a few teenage HS boys that would eagerly jump at the opportunity to take any "safe" supplement that they think would boost strength and muscle growth. IMO, it is entirely feasible that the majority of those boys would, say, drink a shake every day but not be disciplined enough to monitor hydration.

Obviously, there is a parental guidance factor here, but I think many can appease their parents with quick reference to "safe, legal, effective" articles about Creatine and the hydration issue may get overlooked by unknowing, unsuspecting parents. (You know, non HSBBweb folks )

quote:

Originally posted by 3rdgenerationnation:
CPLZ provided a pretty good summay of what I discovered researching creatine a few years ago. 4rdGen Mom is a Registered Dietitian and an Exercise Pyhsiologist and she concluded the same thing. One piece of research I came across related to the self reporting D1 athletes did on there use of steriods. There was a steady drop in those saying they were taking steriods and the biggest reason was that legal supplements like creatine were giving them the results they were looking for.

I think I may have read that same article.
However another reason athletes might be avoiding steroid use is testing, and the known negative heath effects.

Some , HS athletes are using HGH and synthetic stuff to increase muzzle mass . My point was that some will be surprised when they have to drug test . When I played football in the mid 80's we were tested every week , I'm sure that the test have " improved ". Who knows what the NCAA will be testing for next year ? Just stay clean and work your butt off . My father coached for 31 years and made it very clear to me , that it's better to stay away from short cuts . You will have a life after sports . Ligaments and tendons done get stronger with synthetic built muscle mass .

To add to the caffein discussion, another negative side affect of caffein is reduced blood flow to critical thinking areas of the brain. Your body may be more hyped up, but the critical thinking areas of your brain are getting reduced blood flow, hence reduced ability to make quick and good decisions, that are extremely necessary. SO, if our kid is thinking it's safe to overdose on it, he/she is actually reducing performance. My profession is addictions counseling, caffein, next to nicotine, IMO is one of the most abused substances in the world.

Coffee ??? Now I'm in trouble .

quote:

Originally posted by nopunchiejudys:
Coffee ??? Now I'm in trouble .

Oh yeah they test for caffeine, no red bull allowed.

School testing is different from NCAA testing.

I think that steroid use (HS, college and the pros among US players) in general is down, or the users have been weeded out. Any specific thoughts on this?

NCAA committee rejects proposal to test for street drugsEmail Print Comments Associated Press

INDIANAPOLIS -- A proposal that would have expanded the NCAA's drug-testing policy to include street drugs was rejected Wednesday by an NCAA committee. The measure would've imposed strong sanctions for violators, including a half-season suspension for first-time offenders.

The decision will not change the program currently implemented by the NCAA, which includes testing at championship events and random-year round testing for performance-enhancing drugs such as steroids. About 10,000 to 11,000 student-athletes are randomly selected each year for tests. The program was first instituted in 1990.

Carolyn Femovich, chairwoman of the Championship and Competition Cabinet, said committee members did not believe legislation was necessary since most Division I schools and conferences already test for street drugs, such as marijuana and cocaine.

"There are a high percentage of schools and conferences that already have those in place, along with an education program related to social drugs," Femovich said. "The cabinet felt it was best left at the institutional level at this time."

While the NCAA will continue to administer other drug tests, Femovich said the NCAA also has the ability to test for street drugs at championship events under current guidelines.

Penalties were part of the proposal, too. Besides first-time offenders missing 50 percent of the season, second-time violators would have faced a one-year ban and a third offense would have made the athlete permanently ineligible to compete in the NCAA.

Players could only have been reinstated after the school provided documentation showing the athlete had passed a subsequent drug test and attended either an educational or treatment program.

"I think there's an ongoing concern about the health and safety issue, and I think a lot of people thought this should be institutional protocol, not NCAA protocol, when it comes to street drugs," Femovich said.

She also acknowledged there were concerns about the cost, which estimates put at $825,000.

"We were aware of the cost, so we had to ask ourselves first, 'Does this make sense?"' she said. "So it was about how you balance the costs."

The committee also discussed concerns about women's teams that sometimes practice against male players.

Rather than recommending an outright ban, the cabinet approved a plan asking schools to reconsider the practice. Among the points Femovich stressed were looking at whether practicing against men reduced opportunities for women and whether male practice players had their own medical insurance or were being treated by the school's training staff.

It also set up a research procedure that could force the cabinet to reconsider its decision later.

"We want periodic oversight to assess trends and keep an eye on what's happening in regards to grants-in-aid [scholarships] being awarded," she said. "We want to keep an eye on this because if we see certain

Just wanted to post the way drug testing is handled.

Info is Power keep posting and I'll keep reading!

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
Just wanted to post the way drug testing is handled.

Correct, that's why I said school testing is different from NCAA and so are the consequences if you get a positive result.

Many schools have three strike rules, some less. NCAA is not as tolerable.