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Doughnutman - Just about everyone involved with competitive sports team at some point asks themselves " Are we better off going to another team"? And I used "we" because I agree it is a family decision. So you go out and look around discreetly to find all your options. Then you weigh the options and make an educated decision to stay or move on to greener pastures. If you decide to stay at least you gave due diligence to finding something better. If you move on, you try and do it as gracefully as possible by giving ample notice and not bashing the manager/coach on your way out. If you switch teams once a year I think you would be par for the course. If you have a team you love and stay several years consider yourself blessed!
Doughnutman, I “told” my children where they would play when they were in “T” ball and a few years after “T” ball. I “influenced” where they would play during their teenage years. But there came a time when I “asked” them where they were going to play. It is a transition we parents/players have to adjust to as they grow up. Depending on what stage of growth you and your son are in has a lot to do with what you should do. There are a lot of things to consider when you pull your child to play for another team. Moving, transferring or quitting will always be options and could be good options but they can be terrible choices too. Be fair to all parties involved and consider more than the obvious. I’d be the first to suggest you have an obligation to do what is best for your child. Moving to another team may be good but it comes at a price. It's teaching him how he should interact with his teammates, his coaches, and how he sees himself as compared to his teammates. Have you considered there might be something he could dislike about his “new” team or his “new” position? What then? Does he move again? Maybe teaching him how to cope with adversity along with respecting his coaches and his teammates might be more important that just thinking about himself?? I can't tell you what to do other than THINK about it.
When my son was a sophomore in college he was “told” he would be pulled from his position as starting catcher and become a weekend starter on the mound ---- a move he did not want to make. He called and told me of the conversation he had had with the head coach. Since this was discussed during his recruitment I suggested he remind the coach that he was recruited as a catcher and he was told he would not be called upon to pitch. He told me “Dad, I can’t do that. That is not an option”. He did what he thought he should do. He accepted the responsibility and he pitched the rest of the season.
Fungo

PS Let me add it doesn't matter what your son can do --- it's what he IS DOING and how well he does it.
This is the third time it has erased my post.

Doc K,
In Dec '06 he left the 14U travel team that he had played on for 3+ years. When they were 11U he was 9, 12U he was 10, etc.

He joined a 12U team,(his own age), and finished out the season. Jan '07 to July'07. This team only plays 12U. After the season ends(July) the team disbands and the coaches find new players and the players find new teams.

When we were searching for a new team this fall(seasons are backwards for travel ball in Phoenix, nobody plays travel ball Junish thru August unless it is out of state or in the high country) we were contacted by several 13U,14U and a couple of 15U teams that we know about playing. This included his original team that had moved up to 15U.
Does this help? I am at a lost to try to explain it again. We only left one team during the season and it was during time off during the Holidays. After playing for them for 3+ years.

Yea the Hawaii thing was kinda nuts. We passed on that for lots of reasons.

Bobblehead,
His current 13U team is invite only, no tryouts.

And I would never bash the coach or the organization. They are both very good and I consider the Coaches to be friends. I just don't think it is a good fit as it stands now. I will know for sure if the trend continues after the next two tournaments.

Bee,
Why do you want to know my citizenship status? Are you INS or something? Razz
Fungo,
My son has always played centerfield with a little MIF thrown in. I believe he is a natural in Center. After playing 3 plus years of travel in center HE wants to play SS. He was able to this year and he wants to continue to play SS. HE absolutely loved it. It is a major factor in our decisions. I thought I had spelled it out but I obviously have issues and am side tracked easily.

Yea for undiagnosed adult ADHD. I am much better at communicating verbally than this typing ****.
2BMom,
I hear what you are saying. And I do think my son is a natural in Center and will probably play there in HS. We have two other kids that are fantastic in center. But he got a taste at SS last season and he thinks it is the best place on the field. I won't go into specifics about the other SS. Let's just say it is obvious for a variety of reasons who is better and leave it at that. But the phrase "crow hop" does comes to mind.
Once again TG, most teams play 100 games in a ten month season, if not 120 games in Phoenix. It is the desert. Anybody can play less if they want to stick to rec ball. You will play 40 games in two seasons. Travel ball is a full time commitment. Part time and other sports don't cut it. Most kids have to choose one sport by 12U. By age 12 or 13 you are set in your sport if you want to compete in HS. There are exceptios of course, but they are super studs. Nobody plays 3 6A sports.
Everyone has their own opinion. But here is my question. If weather is not a factor, who is going to make the team, the kid that plays a sport year round for 5 years and is polished? Or the kid that plays rec only and is way behind the other kids that play year round?

As a coach what do you want? The players ready to play from day one or the kids that will take a couple of seasons to catch up? Would you rather polish skilled guys or take on a project that may or may not be able to play or even want to put in the time it takes to play?
More and more each sport has at least two seasons with a workout regimen that takes up the rest of the year. It is getting to be like college and the pros more and more every year.

It is a difficult question, but the competition is playing year round, winning is important for HS. If you want to keep your job.
I am not saying it is right, but it is reality. At least in the desert when the only thing stopping you from playing any sport year round is the occaisional dust storm.
TG,
Keeping up with the Jones's?
Please, if my son didn't love playing I wouldn't do it for a second. Cut out the insults. This isn't kindergarten.com and I'm not 10 years old. He plays this much because he would play 300 games if I let him.
The game has changed in 20+ years. More oppurtunity and more risk. My goal is to keep him healthy, competitive, full of desire and have a chance to play in HS. I grew up in the midwest and playing year round seems crazy to me, but if I could of I would of played basketball year round growing up. I only played other sports because there was nothing else to do.
He is like his Daddy. Just substitiue basketball for baseball. Everybody knows about love of a sport. The enviroment where I live makes every sport year round. And most people play year round.

Keeping up with Joneses. Please. Get on azbaseballnetwork.COM. You will find 30-40 teams 13U and 14U that are trying to make a HS team. Should we just ignore this fact?
I prefer to face reality.
quote:
who is going to make the team, the kid that plays a sport year round for 5 years and is polished? Or the kid that plays rec only and is way behind the other kids that play year round?

D-man, I read your post and it appears you are either being over dramatic or actually convinced a child in Phoenix MUST follow a particular route to become a polished player to continue on into high school. Not true. It's not how MUCH a player plays or where a player plays ---- BUT ----- HOW a player plays that determines his "worth". Look at football players that only play 10 or 11 games a year. Some of them get very good with such little game time. Granted these football players “work” at getting better year round but they don’t have to play 100 plus games to do it. If we follow the philosophy of “Work at practice and Play at games” maybe we should focus more on good instructions and good training and less on the number of games played. I’m a firm believer that a good balanced approach of playing time and instructional time will maximize a young player’s development. My son spent more time hitting in our basement than he did on the diamond. He passed on fall ball and actually played two years of high school football and said he had lots of fun doing so while he continued to get better at baseball. I’m going out on a limb and say that playing too much can actually get in the way of good development. Could it be this “play. play, play attitude” is driven by the egos of the adults that are involved.
On my son’s college team there were players from the desert, players from the south, players from the east, players from the west and players from the north His team even had two players from Canada. Being SEC caliber players they had one thing in common ---- they had talent.
PS: I agree that Arizona is a great place for baseball ---- My son just finished his professional season in Tucson, AZ with the Rockies INSTRUCTIONAL league. He is currently continuing his development by WORKING OUT at his old college facilities. However it’ll be about 6 months before he plays another game.
Fungo
quote:
who is going to make the team, the kid that plays a sport year round for 5 years and is polished? Or the kid that plays rec only and is way behind the other kids that play year round?

Doug whos opinion is this?

One of my friends who is in the MLB says his hockey training helped him more than anything else. Most BB guys ll sports help the overall conditioning and coordination. At some point and that is well beyond 12 yo dropping a sport or 2 to focus on BB may be a wise thing to do. Mainly because of injury potential.
It is sounding like a lot of parents they see their son as better than the other guy. Maybe he is but more than likely he isn't. Antway at 12 they are just developing and what is true today won't be true in a year or two.
I had an interesting conversation with my son the other day.He believes that he became a good short stop because he never received infield instruction until he went pro. He just developed his own natural ability which he feels gave him an advantage over players who were taught the mechanics at a young age.

So it was to his advantage not to become a polished player until he was older.
He also played s****r in the fall and winter which developed speed and agility.
Last edited by njbb
I have been following this post and along with Doc am completely confused!

Donutman,
I understand your reasons for concern, you are not alone. There are many parents in the US who are in the same situation. With a booming young population and our communities bulding less and less schools to put them in, it's very difficult to find a spot on a HS baseball roster where the student population is 25-3000K with only a few spots available. Therefore we try to do everything we can to give out kids an "edge" before they arrive to their destination(HS or beyond).

I won't give you advice as to switching teams as you have gotten enough of that, and some very good thoughts to ponder about the decision.

Interesting, but after reading this I did a search and last year in Arizona, BA only listed 32 prospects from the state, mostly from the univerities and Juco's. So I am wondering if those 100-120 games at 13 later translates to burnout, injuries or just not playing really good baseball to develop the fundamentals when players are young. BTW, I live in a state of year round baseball, and not sure if this is the norm, but it wasn't when son was younger.

At 8-9 mine loved to pitch, at 10-11 he loved third base, at 11-12 catching, at 13-14, outfield, at 15-16 ss, then he didn't have a choice anymore. The best part of it, was that he very oten played on teams when he was younger where everyone played and learned different positions. That's what you do, IMO at 11,12,13,14. It's quite amazing how unlikley the LL ss will most likely not be a ss in HS, college or maybe as a pro. Things change, kids change, circumstances change. I know that you made it clear your son would be available to play where needed, and it's frustrating that he is not playing where he wants to play. I know that feeling.

Polished players rarely make it over natural talent, so if your son has a lot of that, you need not worry. Naturally talented players have the ability, because of their athleticism to play just about any position when given the opportunity if doesn't matter how much they do or don't play when younger. Fungo made a great point, in college you will find players on a team that come from all over the country, not just the ones who played year round ball. They got the opportunity because of who they are, not where they came from.

In conclusion I will just add one opinion, I would be more concerned with the 100+ games a year than position at this time, but, that is just my opinion.

njbb post brings to mind something that Zach Dukes' dad (One player's Pop)told me once, his son, now a MLB pitcher, learned to pitch by throwing to a target painted on the side of their barn. Smile I do beleive he many have gotten to where he is on his natural ability, not because he was "polished" when he was drafted in HS.
Smile
Doughnutman,
I'm going to weigh in here, because I have a son who is a couple of years older, and who has played in two different large travel baseball programs. So I have had the opportunity to watch the progress of dozens of players. The baseball season here is quite literally year-round-- the weather is almost always suitable for play. Like Phoenix, it is a large metropolitan area, with typically large high schools. Finally, my experience is recent.

It was a surprise to me, but it turns out that players who only play baseball and no other sport are at a significant disadvantage in making the HS freshman team. In fact, I only know of one player who solely played baseball at age 13 and who was subsequently able to make his freshman team.

I believe there are several reasons behind this. Bear in mind that of the players trying out for the team, only a handful are clear standouts. The rest of the prospective players are not easily distinguished from each other on the basis of performance at tryouts. So the coaches look at other perceived factors, which include athletic ability, competitive fire, and willingness to contribute to a team effort. Successful participation in any sport in addition to baseball is a strong indicator of the first two of those factors, and team sports imply the third. Conversely, there is a risk that a player who has specialized in baseball may have carefully polished a lesser talent, and thus has a limited horizon.

And that horizon matters. While a freshman team should be trying to win, the primary purpose of the freshman program is to identify and develop those players who can contribute to the varsity team in a year or two.

I think there is one other reason, unrelated to coach's perceptions. Simply put, participation in other sports enhances and develops athletic ability. The payback in playing the 60th through 100th baseball game is relatively low. The time would be better spent on 10 weekends playing basketball or s****r, and gaining speed, endurance, ability to see the entire field, as well as quick reactions. Yes, travel ball coaches will allow it. I've been close to several youth teams which were ranked nationally in the top ten (by whomever bothers with this stuff),and all of the players participated in at least one other sport.
Nope, not going to let this thread die a quiet death. Gonna ride this horse 'till it's beat into the ground.

I've talked to high school baseball coaches that I know and they love kids that have played multiple sports. For the most part a kid's not going to get fast by playing or practicing baseball. Basketball, s****r, hockey, or track will do a better job at that. And IMO football is a great teacher of mental toughness.

I had a kid in spring ball who I'd known since he was 7 or 8. At that age he had average speed, nothing really spectacular. He hadn't played baseball in a couple of years so he was initialy rather unpolished. But he'd been playing basketball and running track, and he is now seriously FAST. His work ethic is second to none, I showed him a video of his swing and gave him a couple of things to work on and within two weeks he'd fixed those things. Same thing with his throwing. He got selected for our park's all-star team which won the state championship this summer.
Here in Florida, middle schools do not play baseball. My son played s****r and volleyball and played baseball a few times a week on a league which was not a rec league.
By the time he reached HS baseball became his main focus, playing on a team in fall and some summers and then his regular 28 Roll Eyes game HS season. I am not sure if that would even total 100 games on an annual basis between fall, spring and summer (maybe his junior year).
I do beleive his participation in other sports did help him as an athlete and essentially in the end, that counts very much into the equation of their success.

There is no need to belittle a poster because he/she beleives what they are doing is the right thing. It is our job to assist in their questions if asked, without getting nasty. JMO.
quote:
Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Does anybody else have any sugeestions? Winning is great, but he has 2 years left before HS and he needs more infield time in my opinion. A ball player needs all the skills he can get.



Have him watch this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KC9AKY5_4ek

I'll bet this kid wanted more infield time at some point. Then he did this in HS on national TV. Somewhere along the way he prepared to be the best he could at whatever position he was playing. It paid off.

If he remains in the outfield have him look at kids like this, and folks like Jacoby Ellsbury of the Red Sox. Another very talented player who probably wanted to be in the most visible positions at one time or another. Now he's stuck out in the outfield in a World Series and is loved by Red Sox fans.

It's all in how you, or your parents, look at it.

TM
Last edited by deaconspoint
What started out as a simple question of switching teams or not has turned into a Nature vs Nurture debate. Since you can't change the Nature part (we'll leave steroids out of this) then the discussion should be just on the Nurture part. And we focus on baseball - then Doughnut man's son should be put in an environment where he can develop skills at SS or any other positions he desires.

HS evaluations will focus on the 5 baseball tools. If your son is weak in any of those areas they should be identified and a plan should be developed to develop those skills or to strengthen physical weaknesses. This could be accomplished by playing another sport or doing specific physical training for speed/strength/agility.

My last bit of advice ( I know, few people read these boards for actual advice) is to try and use analytical thinking. There are a ton of post that start " I know a kid..." and go on to describe unlikely events that occurred. So what? Usually these are abnormalities rather than the norm. How can any conclusions be drawn for specific incidences? You would need controlled studies to gather data and then analyze results.

Just use common sense and keep playing baseball as long as you're all enjoying it. Enjoy the ride, wherever it takes you.

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