Switching teams

On most of the teams my son has played on the manager's son played SS. On his 13U travel team it was SS and lead off hitter ( lousy at both). Good luck finding a team where your son will be the SS...

The exception to our experience was at 14U where the manager's son didn't want to be there so they had him in the outfield daydreaming... So they rotated some kids at SS - some parents ended up getting jealous ( why is SS so important to people?)... My son gets to play it once in a while and laughs at how "special" it makes him feel (he has seen the politics for years)!

I guess a question to ask is, How happy is your son on that team? It really depends on him what you should do.

I also agree bbd, good luck in the ss position. My son has played on several teams and the head coaches son played short always.

Good luck I hope you find what your looking for.

I won't bash you, Doughnutman. We're all a little biased when it comes to our boys - comes with the territory.

When we were at that age, we thought about switching teams, too, but for different reasons. Sounds like your son's current team has a bad case of daddyball.

What does your son want to do? Is he unhappy, too? It's great to be on a really good team, but if your son isn't getting the coaching or the playing time that he wants because of a biased coach, then I don't blame you for considering other options.

If not, well, does the 14U team have good coaching? Does your son have friends on the team? Even if they might not be as competitive in their age bracket as the 13U team, would your son (and you) have more fun? To me, that's the bottom line at the 13U-14U stage - good coaching, and having fun. Where do you think your son would be more likely to find those two things?

quote:

also agree bbd, good luck in the ss position. My son has played on several teams and the head coaches son played short always.

LOL - That certainly is true in a lot of cases. That's why I think paid coaches are a good idea for travel teams. They can be expensive, but still a good idea.

Y'all are right about the SS position. I think of SS and P as the "glamor" positions. There were a few years my son played that the coach's son was a catcher, and in that case my son was SS. But when the coach's son was SS, mine was 3B and 2B. Now that he's in HS, they're putting him at both MIF positions, which makes him feel good that they notice the skills, but it's kind of scary. He's an introvert, and is nice and comfy at 2B.

I know it's hard, but I would try not to worry too much about where the daddyball coaches put your son as long as he's happy. You can always hit grounders to him and work on his fielding skills outside of practice. Once he gets to HS, if he's got the skills, they'll notice.

well, there are more OF positions available on hs & college teams than SS positions

I am bit confused with your initial post

You say he is playing 13 U but can go to the 15U or 14 U teams==if he is as talented as you say why is he playing down or is that a typo?

2BMOM makes a good point what does your son want to do? Also what would you gain and what would you lose?
What kind of ss is your son? is he going to stay at ss in high school ?

My son played ss at that age (still does) He planned on playing on a fall ball team but before the season started the coach moved him into the out field.
My son decided he was not going to get better at ss playing in the out field so he left the team.
This was not sour grapes... it was business.

His summer travel team at that age had him playing at 2nd base and the coaches son at ss. He loved the team and ejoyed playing 2nd. The next year he was moved to short and the other player moved to 2nd. (this player is now a 2nd basman at a D1 college) so it worked out for everyone

I can tell you from first hand experiance that if your son is competing with the coaches son he has to be twice as good at least.

It is reall important that when picking a team to make sure your son is not competing for the same position as the coaches son.

There are a lot more opportunities to play outfield as a freshman than play SS as a freshman. Food for though.

If, as you say, your son can start at SS for another team. Be up front with the coach and switch teams. Once they hit the big field it does become more of a business unfortunately. Especially when they start ranking players at 14 years young.

Crazy if you ask me but that is the way it is.

BIll

To answer a couple of the questions.
He is not happy about being in the outfield again. But he does like his teamates.

He played 13U at 11 and 6 months of 14U at twelve before we moved back to his age group last December. He has grown 4 inches and put on 20 pounds since then. He has had a steady diet of curve balls for the last year and is now able to handle them. Or lay off.

He was having trouble with the 14U pitching and losing his confidence and he wanted a chance to play SS. He had been at Center, second, and occaisionally pitching with that team for 3 years. He wasn't the best SS on his team when he was playing up two years. We didn't have a problem with it.

The team he is on now is a very good team.They put it together to try to play on a National circuit next spring. They could beat a lot of 14U American teams. But if all he is going to do is pitch and play outfield we will move up. Better competion and less pitching.

Any suggestions on whether talking to the coaches will make any difference? We were recruited by the head coach. Not the coach whose kid is at SS now. My son could do it, but I don't think he would be able to actually question the coach. He's still 12 and has always been told to do what your coach says.

And do not forget that a multitude of HS Shorstops become College Outfielders


One other thing I notice is threads like these is the use of the word "we" by the poster, be it a mom or a dad. That is a bad sign to me.

If you use it here what do you use when you talk to the coaches?

TRhit,
I hear ya. I also hear that he is jumping around and doesnt seem happy anywhere. Maybe a thought would be slow down a little and let him play and shine for a while. Jumping up a couple of years can make a lot of difference.

I think its hard for some to play up and down. That does not mean your not a great player, you just need to be in a groove longer. Good Luck.

Talk to the coach respectfullly, what can he say? NO.

I use the term we because it is a family decision. It takes up a lot of time and money that could be used elsewhere and I also have two younger daughters and a wife. We is appropriate.

If I talk to the coaches I will use the proper pronouns. Whether it is we or my son. I speaks english very good.

He is very happy. The 14U team he played for started out as a rec team when he was 9 and the rest were 11. He left due to frustration on facing high school kids. The coaches would take us back in a heartbeat. Even though it started as a local rec team only 4 kids are left from the original 13. This isn't unusual in Phoenix.
The 12U team was a professional team without any coaches kids on the team and they only coach 12U. When the season was over you had to find a new team. A couple of kids from that team also went to the 13U team. It is only the third team he has played on. Lots of kids go team to team in this area. All of the kids seem to know each other. The only kids that stay on a team for years are the coaches sons.
I guess it is wait and see. Two more tournaments and I will talk to the coach I guess. But if I talk to him we are going to leave. I would never tell a coach where to play my son. No matter how tempting it might be. But it would be nice if the coaches explained to the players why changes were made.

There are 30 teams at least that are 13U in Phoenix and probably close to that many 14U teams. With all of the competition for players you would think that one coach could communicate. But the great communicater Joe Torre is quitting so you never know. But that's another thread.

quote:

I would never tell a coach where to play my son

Isn't that what you are attempting to do by talking to the coach ?
Be careful you don't get a reputation which spreads like wildfire. I saw this many times and have seen players who can't find a team that will touch him.
I would tell your son to play hard and show what he can do on the field.

I would tell the coach the reason why we left was playing position. I would never use it as a "play my son __ or we quit" option. Never as a threat! But it wouldn't be right to just leave the coach hanging or lie to him. I would expect him to understand. I would.

Doughtnutman


Can you answer my question regarding the 15U,14U 13U teams?


Asl as noted abobe that you do not get tagged as a Parent and Son who just walk away when not happy---that reputation never leaves you---like I said earlier the "we" stuff is disturbing

My opinion is that when you commit to a team you honor your commitment.
Personally if I were the coach and you left you would never play for me again . Just My opinion after seeing this way too many times. Things were not always perfect for my son but he always finished what he started.
Your son is 13U. It seems to be more your problem than his.

TRHit,
I thought I did explain.

" He played 13U at 11 and 6 months of 14U at twelve before we moved back to his age group last December. He has grown 4 inches and put on 20 pounds since then. He has had a steady diet of curve balls for the last year and is now able to handle them. Or lay off."
"He was having trouble with the 14U pitching and losing his confidence and he wanted a chance to play SS."

"The team he is on now is a very good team.They put it together to try to play on a National circuit next spring."

That is why he went down and is still at 13U.
He has played several 14U tournaments this fall and played SS and batted third while filling in for teams. I always tell them the same thing. My son is a rental player, a fill in. Bat him last and don't move any of your regular guys. But he still plays short, outfield and pitch. We used to get calls all of the time if they have kids on vacation or playing football this fall. These have died down since our team is playing a tournament schedule. My son would play every weekend if I let him. He is a great kid and lives for baseball. Coaches also like my entire family. We are nice people.
Does that answer the question?

PS. I don't let him pitch more than 3 innings, usually 50 pitches or less. It is ok to help out a coach, but not to abuse an arm.

Bobblehead,
If you were told that every position was open and everybody has equal footing. And then it was a lie. Would you still feel obligated to honor your commitment if the other party already reneged on the deal? Would you give a year of being upset and po'd(my son) when the other party lied to get that commitment? We held up our end. They didn't. We were also told that no coaches had kids that played SS and that the competition was open. That was a large part of our decision to join the team. I am still honoring my commitment and giving the coaches a chance. They will get 2 more tournaments. Gotta do what is best for my son. And playing outfield and being PO'd at 13U isn't it.

Last post until tomorrow.
Today is my B'day.
Going home to pick up the kids and my wife for a quick dinner and then we split up for 2 practices. Typical birthday for a baseball parent.

You said your son was happy. Now you are saying the opposite.
Regardless you see it as a lie and maybe it was. Personally I would stay out of the coaches business and leave at the ned of the season.
My son was carded one year and had to play Rec ball. We just went and played and enjoyed it. We were upset but never complained. The next year he made the team but sat for five games. Finally went out and threw a no hitter. We were also competing with a coaches son. My son wouldn't quit.
You are telling facts that I have heard 100s of times. I am not trying to be mean here but you have to see things the way others might. You think yours son is the better player, maybe others don't. He is 12 YO so let him get used to BB and its knocks. When do you start crisizing the coaches instruction and how he calls the game ? BB is full of people that sound just like you do. After you say enough about your situation you can read between the lines and for your son's sake tell him to play hard. You are not wasting a year. You are actually learning more than you realise and so is your son.

Happy Birthday !!

I lied. One more post. My son likes his teamates. He doesn't like playing outfield. There is a difference.

Next, our season lasts for 10 months. September to June or so. If it was a couple of months it would be no big deal.

But it is a long season to watch someone who is not as good get to play the fun spots on the field. And not get the reps you need in practice and the game to keep you skills sharp.

Do I give them ten months of our time and money when nobody is happy?

I am not a saint. And remember, 30-60 other teams out there in the Phoenix Metro area.
Amd I don't need any lessons thank you. I sacrificed a lot of cartilage and ligaments for my teams growing up. I think I learned most of the good ones.

We were in a situation where my son was playing behind the coaches' son. Our season ended and we left. The next season, our coach had a stroke leaving his short term memory impared. Since our seasons end July and December, we were able to wait it out both times.

Since kids play for experience, it is difficult when they do not seem to be gaining the "right" kind. We started the travel stuff late, so he was never attached to a team long term.

I look at things a little different . If your son is not happy I would leave the team. Baseball should be fun!I don't think every thing needs to be a lesson in life. He is a 12 yrs old little kid. If any one needs to talk to the coach I think it should be the parent. Lighten up child hood is short. enjoy
That being said remember when you rock the boat be prepared to get wet.

Thanks for the differing viewpoints. I wanted to see if I had left anything out in my decision making and the rest of you helped fill in the holes.

If anyone is curious I will know the decision after the next two tournaments and another discussion with my son.

We shall see.

And you can be completely happy. Why settle when you have other choices?

TG,
I tried to resist but maybe my skin isn't as thick as I thought it was.
To answer your questions:
1. We will play over a 100 tournament games. 100's of practices when you include hitting, pitching, conditioning and fielding. That is a huge commitment. Especially when you want to play a different position. IMO that should only be done when you reach HS. In youth you shouldn't settle. Once again that is just my opinion.
2. Value was never brought up. Some positions are more fun. Every kid has his own idea of what is the best place to play. Some crazy kids even like catching and pitching! My son thinks SS is the best. Well, second best to hitting that is.
3. I guess you ignored the part that said reps in practice. Also you ignored the fact that I have a wife and two daughters. They would like some time also. We do side work when we can. Days off are days off. With our schedule, the last thing a young arm needs is more throwing.
Games prove you can do the job. It is called being clutch. Everybody can make a spectacular play in practice without any pressure. Doing it in a game is special.
4. I addressed happiness above. If I ever stop striving for happiness in my life and my families life just leave me on an ice flow. Darn, no smileys of people floating off into the sunset. Can we get some?

I noticed something. The qustion about the 15U team. It is the same team he played on last year that was 14U at that time. They moved up. Also a couple of teams that were 14U last year that know us asked about him before we signed up for our current team. I hope that clears it up.

After reading all this I guess i'm glad my son is a lefty!! 1st base, pitcher or the outfield for him! I have put that in his head his whole life. Now that he is 12 going on 13 and has left the youth field behind he actually enjoys playing the outfield as older kids actually hit it into the outfield on a consistent basis. He isn't the fleetest of foot but he catches everything he can get to and gets to use his strong accurate arm. He loves playing first but that seems to go to the kids who can hit but can't field very well. It also keeps his arm fresh for pitching. Coaches love kids who can actually play the outfield well, keeps you on the field and helps your team win. He realizes that when he gets to HS ball he only has 4 positions he can play when not on the mound, so he better get to know them all (3 OF & 1st) if he wants to contibute.

I understand what everyone is saying about commitments etc...but with the cost of travel ball you should make sure that you are getting enough playing time and playing the positions you'd prefer in order to justify that cash outlay. This isn't a high school team or such, it is a travel team which costs big bucks. If doughnutman has that many teams to choose from in his area and playing SS is important to the son and family then they should switch to a team where they are reasonably sure he will play enough for their peace of mind. however I think his son needs to learn that if he wants to make teams in the future (HS etc..) he will need to play where the coach needs him or his playing days could be over. Learning to play the outfield wouldn't hurt his chances, and playing outfield properly is more then just catching a pop up! I admit that this is a catch 22 type of scenario between cost & happiness vs life/baseball lessons. but at this young an age cost & happiness should probably win out.

DOUGHNUTMAN
Sir


Go back and read your initial post---that is not same as you quote in your response to me


Over and out !!!

TRHit,
"My son could go back to 15U and play the same positions as he is now or go to 14U and start at SS for someone else."
Is this what you are referring to?

He could play outfield and a couple of innings at short per tournament if we went back to his old team that is 15U now. It is the same as he is doing now for his 13U team. He is an excellant outfielder.

If you are referring to something else I have no idea what it is. Please clarify.

Look at your response to me with the quotes and then look at your original post

I cannot be in your mind to know what you mean

quote:

And you can be completely happy. Why settle when you have other choices?

We all have choices and you made a choice. You committed to a team.
Now you add the outside job, family and other ignorable things into the equation. These are things you should have considered when you were committing and that is why it is ignorable at this point.
BB is about commitment to a team. As I said we all have been through BB ups and downs. If I even tried to interfere with my son's BB he would have been livid with me.
I have seen parents who jump from team to team. There is alway something that you won't like. I have seen players quit in the middle of a tournament. One minute he is on your team and the next you are laying a beating on him in the next game. I took pleasure in watching our kids knock him out of the game in the 1st inning. The guy went to a JC and got tossed for drugs. His HS coach said he was more trouble than he was worth. He had talent but no discipline. His dotting parents were the blame in large part.
You asked for opinions and you seem to reject the experienced voices telling you to tough it out.
The most important thing in BB is discipline and that means honoring commitments. If not get ready for a bumpy ride. Ask the parents of college freshmen.

TR Hit,
I tried to clarify twice. I obviously have no idea what you want. Give me specifics and I will try my best.

Bobblehead,
We will have to agree to disagree. Every decision I make in my life, what is best for my family comes first. Nobody else is looking out for them. I would never make a decision without considering the total picture. Those issues are not ignorable IMO. I fulfill my commitments when the other parties fulfill there commitments. If they break the agreements tnen they are just taking advantage of me. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. And I don't think this will lead to a life of drug abuse. But you never know. And we did tough it out for 3 years of travel ball. No more settling. This isn't HS or above.

quote:

what is best for my family comes first. Nobody else is looking out for them

I would qualify that statement. It is what you think is best. Ever been wrong ?
TR is a seasoned high level coach and I would listen to him.
I personally have seen this attitude 100s of times and it rarely works out.

Good luck

quote:

"My son could go back to 15U and play the same positions as he is now or go to 14U and start at SS for someone else."

please list his options w/16U, 17U, and 18U teams so we can comment intelligently

are there also international options?

Bobblehead,
I have been wrong a few times in my life. I am a Cubs fan along with the Dbacks. But it comes down to this. I have to make the decision and live with the consequences. Nobody else does. That is the bottom line. Advice is nice but the decision affects my family, not anybody else's. I started the post to get input. I never said I would agree with all of it. I think that is impossible. There have been people on each side of the issue. Even though I disagree with you about youth sports, I still appreciate your viewpoint. Good luck.

And Bee,
Are you trying to pick a fight? I was trying to show that there were and are other options for my son. Didn't mean to sound like bragging. The fact that he has other options are an important part of the decision. He was asked to play in Hawaii this year. Does that count for international play?

I've been reading this and trying to make sense of it all, to me it appears that the BIG problem is he's not playing enough of SS in your eyes and possibly in his eyes.

That being said these 2 quotes contradict one another

quote:

He was having trouble with the 14U pitching and losing his confidence and he wanted a chance to play SS

So you join the team you're on now... That doesn't happen.....

quote:

My son could go back to...or go to 14U and start at SS for someone else

From reading that I get the impression you don't want to play for another Coach, BUT from reading your other posts it sounds as though you're not too impressed by the current Coach....

I could be just off base, but everything that I'm reading just isn't adding up.

And as you've said it's your decsion, but to me it looks like you're leaving quite a bit out when posting on here.

Bottom line if your son's not happy and if it's going to be a BIG deal to your son then make a change now rather then have your son lose interest in the game, or want to quit part way through the season. Mind you what lesson does that teach your son...

quote:

Are you trying to pick a fight?

not me!

just wanna be well informed

quote:

was asked to play in Hawaii this year. Does that count for international play?

maybe .. what is your citizenship