Take the $33 mil....and "shove it"

I am a Cubs fan, so this is hard for me to say, but I would pay to watch Pujols take BP let alone in a game.

David Eckstein- I wish he would come back to the American league!
Ichiro- I do pay to watch him!He is amazing.
I am hoping the Yankees will look at JD as a virtual steal at maybe 2 years 40 million.

I wouldn't pay to see any one player regardless of the name. But I would pay to see a team play. We all have issues with players and their salaries but I think there are at least two issues.

1. Risk/Reward factor- and that has to be evaluated when the team as a whole is looked at. From the couch we can make some hindsite evaluations but like anything else beauty is in the eye of the guy writing the check.

2. Some of those agents could sell water at a beach. The more I've taken notice the more impressed I am in their skills at selling projection.

infielddad - are you implying that JD does not put out 100%?

Some rambling thoughts on a cold Sunday...

I like watching young players and trying to guess which one of them will be stars in the future. Some of them who have caught my eye include Joe Mauer, Johan Santanna, and Justin Morneau with the Twins, Grady Sizemore, Jeremy Sowers, and Ryan Zimmerman. Troy Glaus is another favorite of both my son and me. When he was in his prime, Kenny Lofton was the most exciting player in the game imho. He still seems to show up on post season rosters. The only player I might categorize as "must pay to see" is Lebron James. Go Buckeyes BTW

With respect to JD....

I think there are white and blue collar players just as there are white and blue collar people. JD is probably more of a white collar player in that some things may have come easier to him than the next guy. Also, the amount of money and attention he has already garnered for himself probably influences his motivation. In business, sometimes the best person to hire is the one who has a better work ethic and ultimately has more passion for what they are doing.

BTW, what was he thinking when he saw Jeff Kent running ahead of him with a piano on his back?

Who?

JD Drew is one of those players I see as someone who care less about winning and will put out minimal effort...yeah, I'm sure he has all kinds of talent but is not a big time player (if you saw his AB's against the Mets you'd tink he couldn't wait to go home). As far as $33M for him, I think it is a sad commentary that a player who at best is indifferent and has been marginally successful (when not injured, all too often) would get that kind of money. I hope the owners stiff him and bring him down to reality.

Having watched Drew play about 3 seasons worth of games in 5 years with the Cards, I'm more of the opinion that he should pay the fans. The game chats on the fan sites included a pool as to when he would pull himself from a game and what spurious reason would be given.

He plays (or doesn't) as if his only concern was extending his own career and the attendant paychecks. And this was apparent from his initial draft demands, "projecting" himself as an impact player when he's pretty much only had one season with the Braves when that was true.

I like catchersdad's idea --- let the Yankees overpay him for marginal production!

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
JD Drew this week opted out of his contract and the $33,000,000 to be paid over the next three years. I have opinions on JD..but I will keep them for now.
I assume that JD and his agent think he can take another one of his "periodic" good years and translate the "stats" and "tools" into even more money. Got me to thinking, would I ever pay to watch JD Drew? What does a GM think players like him will do for a club when they get, seemingly, into a fenzy of offers. Does JD put fans in seats? Does JD contribute to a good clubhouse? Does JD put out 100%, ever? Does JD put up consistent numbers each year of his big contract? Does JD play when he has a "hangnail?"
So, I thought I would ask. Would members of the HSBBW "pay" to see JD. Would you sign him for something north of $33,000,000 over the next three years.
If not, who would you pay, with your own hard earned money, to watch play?
To start, I would pay to watch Jeter, Vizquel, Eric Chavez, Mark Ellis, Clemens, Biggio. How about you?

It's crazy how something like opting to not make 33 million dollars can be twisted negatively. Maybe JD Drew feels like he has enough money, and would rather play in a more comfortable environment. I don't think its fair to argue that Drew's decision means he wants more money. I think its more about wanting to play for a different team.

Like rz1, I think more in terms of a team I would gladly pay to see, rather than a single player, but ... of course the Twins ... and in terms of individual players, I happily pay the price of a ticket to see these guys play: Joe Mauer, Johan Santana, Torii Hunter. (Just draw the line right up the middle.)

Keep in mind that Drews contract permitted him to opt out--- he will probably sign for more than the 33 mil over the next three years. His agent aint stupid !!!!

I would pay to see the "baby Braves" play anytime anywhere - all of them put together probably dont add up to $33 M over 3 years.

Drew's brother came to Korea as part of a Military Youth Sports initiative, and taught my son a knuckle curve which is very effective.

That's all I have to add to the topic. I always get confused between JD Drew and JT Snow anyway.

Maybe Drew just didn't like LA. I know I wouldn't want to live there.

Maybe he is willing to take a pay cut to play for the D-backs, and be on the same team with his brother?

I know one thing: If I had the money Drew already has, it would be more than I would know what to do with. At some point, you are way beyond financially secure, and money is no good if you're not happy. Give the guy a break, maybe he just wants to go where he feels he can be happy.

I hope that's it, because he probably isn't going to command $11 m/year on the free agent market.

EXACTLY!....

What Midlo Dad said.

Drew Opts Out - SI

Sounds like it's all about the money. I guess enough is never enough!

"It was a business decision," Boras said. "The demand for a five-tool defender, a 25-homer guy, a guy who can drive in 100 runs is pretty clear in today's marketplace."

rz1, those comments about selling water at the beach. Is this what you meant?
But, heck, the guy did increase his games played beyond the 72 from that first $11,000,000 season. Eventually you learn to tolerate those "hangnails," I guess. When you do, you likely also find a GM sitting on his yacht in the middle of the ocean, who believes there is going to be a drought.

33million=$211,538.46 per weekly paycheck....Or $67,901.23 per game...Gotta go now, play some catch with my son!

Actually, 3, with Drew they'd be lucky to pay him $110,000 per game played....

quote:

"It was a business decision," Boras said. "The demand for a five-tool defender, a 25-homer guy, a guy who can drive in 100 runs is pretty clear in today's marketplace."

rz1, those comments about selling water at the beach. Is this what you meant?

Yes. As much as most people dispise Boras and other top agents, they do a pretty good job representing their clients.

I would hire Boras or an agent of that type. They clearly are very effective.
I don't want the fact that, IMO, JD Drew is a player with enormous talent, who, I think, underperforms that talent by a very large quantity, get in the way of recognizing his agent does the best for him. If someone with a very large bank account, represented by a GM and a cadre of lawyers, wants to pay him a lot of money, that is the market place. It seems pretty clear from the CBA, there is a "lot" of money in MLB right now.
My point was I would not pay a penny to watch Drew. I don't think he plays hard and don't think he gives a return on the investment. But if someone who owns and manages a MLB franchise wants to pay him( and there will be more than one I think), more power to him and to Boras. In a sense, I admire an agent who convinces the guy on the yacht that drought is getting more serious by the day.
I am just saying I won't pay my money to watch him...or did I say that already?

It can also be a respect issue. I know when Johnny Damon signed with the Yankees, it wasn't so much about the amount of money, and he obviously loved Boston, it was the fact that the Red Sox weren't giving him as much as the Yankees, even though they could. Damon felt more respected and as if he had more value with the Yankees.

tbirds, it could be respect...but it is money.
I don't think there is anything wrong with MLB players getting money. They are in a game/business that generates huge amounts of revenue and it generates because of the skills with which the players perform on the field. I think they deserve to be paid extremely well.
Damon's wasn't about respect, IMO. It was about the Yankees paying him a couple million more.
If a guy plays hard and performs well, he deserves to be paid and deserves to be able to use free agency to be paid market price when he gets to free agency status.
The players have "earned" free agency. Before they get to that level, the leverage is truly with the club.
I don't think there is anything wrong with saying I want to be paid what the market is for free agency.
Just play hard after you get the money. While I am not a huge Damon fan, I do think he plays hard and competes well and plays the game to win.

I don't care for Boras or his tactics but do agree he gets the most for his clients.

I believe some things may be more important to the player than gross dollar amounts. I saw it here in Cleveland when Albert Belle left for Chicago. He never again played on a playoff team and his former teammates made it back to the World Series the very next year after he left. He was also well-liked by the fans here even though he was not the most likable individual. I believe he signed for 65 million with Chicago when the Indians offered somewhere in the low 50's. To me, there is no difference between 50 and 65 million dollars and I do indeed realize if you subtract the two numbers it computes to 15 million.

Jim Thome did the same thing and opted for more money in Philadelphia. Said the most important thing was taking care of his family. How ridiculous is that? I would have respected him more if he said he was going where they paid him the most money. I need to calm down.

quote:

Damon felt more respected

Respect is over rated when you have that many zeros in the number.

I'm a Dodger fan, and I can't stand the effort that JD puts in. He is a very good ballplayer, but I think he could be great. To be honest I am happy he left LA, it gives some of the younger guys a chance and frees $11M a year to spend on other demands.

TRhit makes a good point: JD's not robbing a bank, he negotiated a contract that provided him the option and, he took it...as was his right.

That said, I watched JD play (or, not play) with the Cardinals for a long time and I'm convinced that, to him, it's only a job and a means to an end. Most workplaces, including baseball I suppose, have people like him...talented, but just not "into it."

What disturbs most of us about JD, I think, is that we think he's one of the luckiest people on the planet to be able to play baseball for a living and earn ridiculous sums for doing it, while he merely thinks baseball beats laying bricks for a living...and pays better.

JD Who?

There's players that I'd pay to watch. Jeter, Visquel, Smoltz, Maddux, Clemens, Biggio, Francoeur...JD Who isn't one of them.

Yeah, his contract allows him to opt out and go after even more money..it's his right. MLB also has the right to laugh at him, and tell him that not only is he not worth what Scott Boras thinks he is, but that he was grossly overpaid at $33 mill for 3 years.

MLB GM's have made some really, really stupid business decisions in the past. Maybe for once, they'll wise up, and tell JD Who to take a hike...of course, he'd probably sprain his ankle taking said hike.

He averages missing about 1/3 of every season because he's more brittle than Granny's dime store china. He spends more time on the DL than I spend on my couch. And he's insulted by a paltry salary of $11 million buckaroos a year, when we have military men and women risking their lives on a daily basis while their families are eligible for food stamps.

If a tree fell in the forest, would anyone hear it? If JD just disappeared, would anyone notice?

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

"It was a business decision," Boras said. "The demand for a five-tool defender, a 25-homer guy, a guy who can drive in 100 runs is pretty clear in today's marketplace."

rz1, those comments about selling water at the beach. Is this what you meant?

Yes. As much as most people dispise Boras and other top agents, they do a pretty good job representing their clients.

rz1, I agree. However, my concern is who's protecting the game. You'd think that the owners are. However, such is not the case. They are spending that money! Common Sense is uncommon and they prove it daily. The fan loses the most. I went 5 times this year to watch the Cardinals play. Each of those times, I went for free. However, the Cardinals have the 5th highest cost per individual to attend a game in MLB. That is based up on ticket prices, parking and concessions. My 12 oz soda cost $3.50. Some tell me that's cheap compared to some other places. I took my Wife and child one time as a guest of the Cardinals for the seating. It cost us over $70 before we left. What is going to happen when Japanese Pitchers/Japanes Clubs get incrediable amounts of money just to talk to potential players? I hope that the owners enjoy this while they can. Baseball (owners and players) is being passed up by football as the American game and it is their fault! JMHO!

Well, JD's strategy paid off! The Red Sox will give him $70 million over the next 5 years, assuming he passes his physical exam...maybe they should have insisted on a mental exam.

It'll be interesting to see if Beantown can get him to actually take the field.

It'll be more interesting to see if the Boston fans let him get by with his delicate health. Good luck to them.

quote:

To me, there is no difference between 50 and 65 million dollars and I do indeed realize if you subtract the two numbers it computes to 15 million.

Anyone that doesn't want the extra $15 million is a FREAKIN' IDIOT!!!

It's ALL ABOUT MONEY...If fans are stupid enough to pay $65 for a ticket to a baseball game, then they deserve what they get. Look at all the empty seats at pro basketball games now. The only places that get filled are with the top 5-6 teams.

Clubs make millions and millions and it doesn't matter what the commish says.

Today, I saw someone was willing to pay $10 million for Greg Maddux for his 84 mph fastball. I don't care what he did 10 years ago with the Braves. Who, amongst you, can justify his making $10 million per year?

quote:

If fans are stupid enough to pay $65 for a ticket to a baseball game, then they deserve what they get.

In Boston they get the opportunity to double their money for each one. Times 10 if the Yankees are in town. I could be wrong, but is Boston turning into the Orioles?

If JD continues to play with the same effort and intensity in Boston, he will likely yearn for the laid back approach of LA. I absolutely have no fault with him for taking $70,000,000 that the Sox offered. Be crazy do do otherwise. Where I fault JD is he has rarely fulfilled his part of the bargain by playing hard, being productive, and playing the majority of a 162 game schedule. With all that said, he still got a raise of $4,000,000 per year and a 2 year extension, all guaranteed.
Or.....like Hampton and Neagle (who is he?) found in Colorado, maybe they just have better schools in Boston

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
[QUOTE]Today, I saw someone was willing to pay $10 million for Greg Maddux for his 84 mph fastball. I don't care what he did 10 years ago with the Braves. Who, amongst you, can justify his making $10 million per year?

Here's some justification for paying Maddux $10 million.

Let's start with Last year's stats:
Maddux finished in the Top Ten in NL in:
Wins - Tied for 7th
Games started - tied for 6th
WHIP - 8th

Maddux finished in the Top 25 in:
ERA - 22nd
Innings Pitched - 20th
BA against - 25th

And even though Maddux is over 40 yrs old, he finished 35th in K's. Which puts him in the top half of all starting pitchers in the NL.

These numbers make him a solid #2 starter.

Will he sell tickets? Absolutely!

Maddux has an outside chance to get his 350th win next season. Even if he doesn't he can still move up on the All-Time wins list. He will move up on other lifetime lists as well. He also brings the potential for marquee match-ups during the season against other big name pitchers.

His knowledge!
Just as the Braves, Cubs and Dodgers pitchers picked his brain, so too will the Padres pitchers. The Padres are getting a pitching coach as well as a pitcher.

Championship experience:

Maddux has plenty of playoff and World Series experience to bring to a young club.

Last point:

Two veterans on the Padres both make over $7 million. Mike Cameron and his .268 avg. and Brian Giles and his .263 avg.

So why shouldn't Maddux, a future HOF'er get $10 million.

dear old dad,

Obviously you haven't seen him pitch in the last couple of years...

I don't care what he did years ago. I don't care what statistics show.

He's terrible.

Who would go watch an old man pitch? He tops out at 84.

Enough said.

quote:

Today, I saw someone was willing to pay $10 million for Greg Maddux for his 84 mph fastball. I don't care what he did 10 years ago with the Braves. Who, amongst you, can justify his making $10 million per year?

Been, the owners are the ones who find reasons to justify the salaries. If Eaton is worth $24,000,000 for 3 years, if Lilly is worth $40,000,000 for 4 years, Jason Schmidt has a value of $47,000,000 for 3 years, and Meche is worth $55,000,000 for 5 years, Maddux is a bargain and the Padres got a "steal."
With talk of Zito now getting up to $20,000,000 per year for 6 years, one could make a serious argument the Padres "underpaid."
And I bet our good friend OPP is watching and loving every new contract report.

quote:

He's terrible.

Who would go watch an old man pitch? He tops out at 84.

Been, Maddux throws "heat" compared with Jamie Moyer who is about 44 and being paid around $7,000,000 per year to get outs.
Happened to see Maddux last summer at AT&T Park in SFO. He was terrible enough, if I recall correctly, to give up 1 hit in 6 1/3 and make the Giants look silly in many at bats.
Sandy Alderson is credited with teaching Billy Beane the "moneyball" approach. Alderson is not known for giving money away. He is stats for value and dogmatically so. If Alderson feels he is worth that money, that is a true test in professional baseball...and Maddux passed.

This is "hot stove" season and I'm sticking to my opinion.

I still have an autographed picture of Maddux from his rookie year.

But I saw him pitch last year and I'm not impressed...wasn't impressed...his era was in the 7's when the Cubbies traded him.

If he wasn't Maddux, he would have been retired years earlier by many clubs.

quote:

But I saw him pitch last year and I'm not impressed...wasn't impressed...his era was in the 7's when the Cubbies traded him.

His ERA with the Cubs when they traded him was 4.69, not in the 7's.

His ERA with the Dodgers was 3.30, giving him a combined ERA last year of 4.20.

Look at his career stats, and you can expect to get what he's been producing every year...200+ innings a year, and the veteran presence of a future Hall of Famer.

Who cares if he's throwing 84? He was winning Cy Youngs throwing mid to high 80's anyway.

If the Padres can give him a solid defense, he'll keep them in games, and be invaluable to the pitching staff. He'll get his 200 innings, have an ERA in the 4's, and best of all, he'll NEVER be accused of using steroids..

Is he worth $10 mill a year? Is JD Who worth $14 mill a year? Heck, none of them are worth what they're making, but I'd sleep a lot easier paying Maddux $10 million to take the bump every 5 days than paying JD Who $14 million and waiting on him to make his annual trip to the DL for tripping over his shoelaces.