Taking pitches?

Ichiro goes on to say....

"True, if you look at isolation, there are instances where you say if I had just laid a particular pitch, I could have. But if I actually apply that thinking to my batting for an entire season, it be detrimental."

Simply said--- if it ain't broke don't try to fix it--- I would try to make Ichiro what he isnt--he does ok by himself

Then there is the example of the Red Sox lead-off hitter Kevin Youkalis [sp]. I absolutely luv watching this guy hit or, often as not, not hit. He takes pitches he is not interested in swinging at, even if they are strikes. He has no fear of an 0-2 count because 1) he knows he can put the ball in play if it is anywhere near the strike zone and 2) his is confident that he knows the strike zone. He must weigh 200+ lbs, has no speed and is [temporarily at least] the leadoff hetter for the Boston Red Sox with a 400+ on base percentage.

The point. Whatever works best for and utilizes the strengths of each individual hitter is what he ought to go with. There is no one right approach for everyone.

TW344

Bluedog, we've had this conversation before. WE ask our hitters to go to the plate with a plan which basically state that we are hitting strikes. Few things irritate me more that a hitter taking a fastball strike and then setting themselves up for disaster while a pitcher uses his arsenal to get them out. We also use the term "hitting backwards." This means that quality team that start 3-4 & 5 off with curveballs on first pitch shouldn't get away with that against us. Aggressive in the zone beats any other combination I can think of. JMHO!

CoachB25, way too many High School baseball coaches, and College too, for that matter, aren't receptive to your philosophy.....And, their hitters suffer because of it......

Your players are fortunate.....They are getting a good hitting education......So many aren't as fortunate.....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
Taking a pitcher deep in the count for the sake of doing so is ridiculous, IMO......All they're doing is handicapping their hitters and their team.....

You finally made a good point.

I firmly believe that you guys are pitchers promoting disinformation.

Pitchers love nothing more than hackers at bat. Guys who will swing at the pitcher's pitch and allow him quite possibly a three pitch inning.

Batters on the other hand are up there to not only hit, they are also up there to make the pitcher work. Good batters will take balls, as many as the pitcher may want to throw. They may even take pitches that are borderline until they have two strikes.

The very nature of the game makes it clear that the pitcher and defense have the advantage. Any good offense will duck and parry in any form to find their opening to gain an advantage.

BOBO

A lot depends on your philosophy--

But say late in a game,there is no point in hacking at a first pitch.The pressure is on the reliever to throw strikes.Make him throw as much as possible.

No, I'm not a pitcher. LOL! TR is correct when he states it's about philosophy. If pitchers are ahead in the count, you have to give them the edge due to their assortment of pitches. You've dug yourself a hole. Rather, I'd like to have our hitters ready to hit that first pitch strike. (NOW IN COACHING OUR PITCHERS, WE TELL THEM THAT THE BEST PITCH IN BASEBALL IS STRIKE ONE.) Now you see the rub. Do we practice going deep in the count? Sure we do. However, that is NOT OUR GOAL. Per "wearing a pitcher out." Yes, you could go 1-2-3 and out. Yes, you could look at a pitch or two before you decide to swing. WHY? You could also be dancing to his tune in that regard! However, you could hit the big fly, 2 doubles, a bunch of singles and destroy the pitcher. Again, it's about philosophy and practicing what you believe in. JMHO!

quote:

CoachB25, way too many High School baseball coaches, and College too, for that matter, aren't receptive to your philosophy.....And, their hitters suffer because of it......

AMEN to the H.S. coach reference. We could sure use someone with CoachB25's philosophy around here...1st base coach saying "swing at strikes" as the 3rd base coach is giving the "take a strike" sign. Factor in the amount of sac bunts, especially from the middle of the order guys, and your playing the prevent offense.

The 'Prevent Offense' is built into baseball.

A good breaking ball pitcher would eat up such an agressive offense.

There would be so many doughnuts on the score board that coffee will have to be served at games.

The correct philosophy depends on the type of hitter you are dealing with. A slap hitter who can run a 6.3 like Ichiro shouldnt be as pitch selective as a #3 or #4 hitter. Their job is to put the ball in play, not strike out, and get on base for the run producers. The run producers need to get better pitchers to drive into the gaps and over the fence to get their RBI's.

then it also comes down to each and every hitter and what pitches they handle best and what type of pitcher they are facing.

Will, I was talking H.S. level where good breaking ball pitchers are few and far between....for the most part HS pitchers look to get ahead early with the FB....thus why put the brakes on a good hitter when in fact that 1st pitch strike he's taking may turn out to be the most hittable pitch he would see that AB.

Was watching DI championship round game and team losing 9-4 in the bottom of the 4th leads off inning with a single...down 5 runs, next batter attempts a sac bunt...IMO you don't give away outs under such circumstances.

I think the bottom line is that would you, as a coach/manager, rather lead the league in batting average and be middle of the pack in runs scored/produced or lead the league in runs produced and be middle of the pack in batting average...

who would do more damage? Ichiro going 3 for 3 with 2 runs scored or Bonds going 1 for 3 with a three run homer?

i didn't see anyone pitching around Ichiro when he was going to break the ALL TIME hits record a couple of years ago at the end of a season... but i have seen people pitching around Bonds in april before...

why? because Ichiro is not going to beat you with his single night in and night out...

just the law of averages..

nothing against Ichiro... he is a freak with his foot speed, arm strength... but I was just sayin....

NYDad,

You need to give a few more specifics about the situation.

There are reasons why a coach would have a player sac bunt in that scenario.

Was the batter a big DP risk?

Was the batter one who strikes out a lot?

Had the batter had difficulty with the pitcher in the past?

Your not throwing away the out. Your making it a productive out. If that batter had led his team in grounding into DPs during the season, then the coach made a good move by trading an out for a base. If the batter grounds out into a DP, then the single is completely wasted. If the batter is leading the team in K's and strikeouts, you gained nothing by the out.

I realize this enters a philosphical debate over small ball versus playing for the big inning, but many things factor into that decision. It may simply have been the best thing for the team to make that out at least advance a runner.

Sometimes what appears to be a sac bunt was meant to be a bunt for a base hit. It's just the hitter didn't do a good job of bunting for a base hit.