I heard of a coach telling his guys to take until 2 (TWO) strikes are called. The situation was that his team was down by 10 runs. Is there any rationale for this? The pitcher was throwing fast balls and attacking the strike zone. He was basically pitching to contact. It sounds so crazy that I wonder if I'm missing something?
I would be interested in hearing your comments.
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Coaches are just people, and some people are idiots.
He wanted to get home for dinner. 
This is a college coach we're talking about here too! Lol
Jim T. posted:This is a college coach we're talking about here too! Lol
That's actually less upsetting. If this was a HS coach or especially a youth coach, it would mean he doesn't think his kids can hit and he doesn't care about helping them learn. Since he's a college coach maybe he's right - they can't hit and it's too late to learn!
LOL... You are probably right.
Where did you hear that said? In the dugout? On the field?
Jim; of course the other team know this coaching philosophy and has ordered his pitchers to throw strikes and save his pitcher's count per inning. Since the hitter will be defensive with 2 strikes I would shift may defense to the right side if the hitter is right handed. "take 2 and hit to right".
It does not win games.
Bob
Jim T. posted:
This is a college coach we're talking about here too! Lol
So how is it you heard about this happening? I’m wonderin’ if mebbe what really happened was the coach put in a bench player who seldom got to hit and he told him to do that, then that story got passed along and ended up where the coach told all his players to do it.
I actually am wondering this myself.
There could be many reasons he said this, but seldom do coaches tell players what to do so it is overheard.
It wasn't overheard and I certainly didn't hear it. The player was talking to his dad after the game.
Jim T. posted:It wasn't overheard and I certainly didn't hear it. The player was talking to his dad after the game.
By chance, was it your son?
You didnt actually hear it, you heard it second hand?
Sorry, but I dont like people making coaches out to be idiots, without knowing the entire situation, first hand.
JMO
Stats4Gnats posted:Jim T. posted:
This is a college coach we're talking about here too! Lol
So how is it you heard about this happening? I’m wonderin’ if mebbe what really happened was the coach put in a bench player who seldom got to hit and he told him to do that, then that story got passed along and ended up where the coach told all his players to do it.
It was directed to starters. I'm not criticizing the coach, just wondering why players would be told to do that. My best guesses are the following
1. He felt their chances of getting walked were better than getting a hit.
2. Game was out of control, make their pitchers throw as many pitches as possible to get into their bullpen. With another game to play the next day, you perhaps hope to put pressure on their bullpen?
Jim,
How could you and we possibly know why this was said without being there to know the situation? But you did provide answers that could be why.
I see you are from Florida, was it at a college here this happened, a D1, D2, Juco?
Your initial post provoked a comment making the coach out to be an idiot. Probably not your intention.
TPM posted:Jim,
How could you and we possibly know why this was said without being there to know the situation? But you did provide answers that could be why.
I see you are from Florida, was it at a college here this happened, a D1, D2, Juco?
Your initial post provoked a comment making the coach out to be an idiot. Probably not your intention.
No. Not my intention at all. I simply never heard of that being an approach before. It seems to me that being down by some many runs, they simply were going to concede the game and figure out what is best knowing they have another the next day. A "youngish" D2 coach but plenty of experience so he certainly knows more than I.
I am assuming that this was a youngish hitting coach.
FWIW, son is a D2 pcoach in Florida in the sunshine state league. This league is more of a hitters league than a pitchers league, as is in most D2 programs.
Many times the hitters are not as patient, mainly due to the erratic pitching. I have seen this throughout the league, with the exception of 2 top well coached teams who could beat D1 on any given day (Nova and Tampa). There are a few teams in FL not in that league.
My only guess, not being there would be the pitcher was pounding the zone, just missing, and he was using the opportunity to instruct players to be more patient, especially if a young team.
JMO
You're correct about Nova and Tampa. I'd even throw a few JUCO's into that mix. Off topic a bit but many have no idea the true parody in baseball.
Jim T. posted:You're correct about Nova and Tampa. I'd even throw a few JUCO's into that mix. Off topic a bit but many have no idea the true parody in baseball.
Parody probably occurs, too, but I think you mean "parity." LOL!
I tell my kids don't even let yourself get into a two strike situation. Here's how our team did this year on specific pitch counts:
0-0 .333 0-1 .583 0-2 .286
1-0 .500 1-1 .333 1-2 .111
2-0 .667 2-1 .200 2-2 .188
3-0 .667 3-1 .333 3-2 .190
OBP was 1.000 on 3-0 and 3-1, but only .333 on 3-2.
MomLW posted:Jim T. posted:You're correct about Nova and Tampa. I'd even throw a few JUCO's into that mix. Off topic a bit but many have no idea the true parody in baseball.
Parody probably occurs, too, but I think you mean "parity." LOL!
Yes. That too! LOL.... Damn public schools!
hsbaseball101 posted:I tell my kids don't even let yourself get into a two strike situation. Here's how our team did this year on specific pitch counts:
0-0 .333 0-1 .583 0-2 .286
1-0 .500 1-1 .333 1-2 .111
2-0 .667 2-1 .200 2-2 .188
3-0 .667 3-1 .333 3-2 .190OBP was 1.000 on 3-0 and 3-1, but only .333 on 3-2.
Y'all hit .286 in 0-2 counts? That's remarkable for a lot of reasons.
Always forcing a player to take one strike is also questionable (but often seen). Too many times the taken FB strike-one down the middle is the best pitch to hit and/or only FB of the AB. If the hitter is good enough to be in the lineup, I'd lean towards trusting him as to when to swing.
Wouldnt it all depend on the pitcher and what he has to offer?
We werent there to see pitchers stuff or the hitter.
Just sayin....
Jim T. posted:I heard of a coach telling his guys to take until 2 (TWO) strikes are called. The situation was that his team was down by 10 runs. Is there any rationale for this? The pitcher was throwing fast balls and attacking the strike zone. He was basically pitching to contact. It sounds so crazy that I wonder if I'm missing something?
I would be interested in hearing your comments.
OK, he was attacking the zone, but was he throwing strikes? Did this strategy produce any walks? How many innings left in the game? I've watched many college games where 5-8 runs scored in one inning. One thought... if the guy is still pumping FBs after I have 2 strikes, then how much does taking a couple actually hurt me?
hsbaseball101 posted:
I tell my kids don't even let yourself get into a two strike situation. Here's how our team did this year on specific pitch counts:
0-0 .333 0-1 .583 0-2 .286
1-0 .500 1-1 .333 1-2 .111
2-0 .667 2-1 .200 2-2 .188
3-0 .667 3-1 .333 3-2 .190
OBP was 1.000 on 3-0 and 3-1, but only .333 on 3-2.
When you compute those 2 strike averages, is every pitch treated as an at bat or is only the final result treated as an at bat.
FI, 1st at bat of the season. P1 = S, P2 = 2 making the count 0-2. P3 = H. BA on 0-2 is 1.000.
2nd AB, P1 = S, P2 = S making the count 0-2. P3 = F. Is the BA on 0-2 counts at that time .500 or 1.000? P4 = FO. Is the player’s BA on 0-2 .500 or .333?
2 strike umpire counts are one thing but 2 strike “real counts” are quite another and they drive me nuts! 
ironhorse posted:hsbaseball101 posted:I tell my kids don't even let yourself get into a two strike situation. Here's how our team did this year on specific pitch counts:
0-0 .333 0-1 .583 0-2 .286
1-0 .500 1-1 .333 1-2 .111
2-0 .667 2-1 .200 2-2 .188
3-0 .667 3-1 .333 3-2 .190OBP was 1.000 on 3-0 and 3-1, but only .333 on 3-2.
Y'all hit .286 in 0-2 counts? That's remarkable for a lot of reasons.
We were struggling the first half of the season on 0-2, but then opposing pitchers started finding the strike zone and we finally got to some hitting.
STATS: Counts are based on final result only
MidAtlanticDad posted:Jim T. posted:I heard of a coach telling his guys to take until 2 (TWO) strikes are called. The situation was that his team was down by 10 runs. Is there any rationale for this? The pitcher was throwing fast balls and attacking the strike zone. He was basically pitching to contact. It sounds so crazy that I wonder if I'm missing something?
I would be interested in hearing your comments.
OK, he was attacking the zone, but was he throwing strikes? Did this strategy produce any walks? How many innings left in the game? I've watched many college games where 5-8 runs scored in one inning. One thought... if the guy is still pumping FBs after I have 2 strikes, then how much does taking a couple actually hurt me?
Sorry it has taken so long to clarify. First, the player told his father and I after the game at dinner. He along with another player were told to take until 2 strikes.
Second, the situation was the team was getting spanked and the pitcher was throwing fastballs 80% of the pitches. It wasn't until the 6th batter that day when he threw an offspeed pitch. He was absolutely pounding the zone and challenging hitters. Throwing strikes. He wasn't "Just missing".
It was the 2nd game of the series with another game to play the next day. There's no "win the game" baseball rationale for what I saw. It was either lets try to get to their bullpen to use up pitchers ahead of tomorrow's game or he simply had so little confidence in these two hitters that he felt they had a better chance of getting walked than getting a hit. If it's not one of the two reasons, I'm at a loss.
Jim,
Without knowing what the coach was thinking, its hard to give an answer to this scenerio.
You have a pm.
Ouch, taking two strikes is no way to improve your hitting or get to the next level. You never know what will happen if you let the kids play.
Jim T. posted:MidAtlanticDad posted:Jim T. posted:I heard of a coach telling his guys to take until 2 (TWO) strikes are called. The situation was that his team was down by 10 runs. Is there any rationale for this? The pitcher was throwing fast balls and attacking the strike zone. He was basically pitching to contact. It sounds so crazy that I wonder if I'm missing something?
I would be interested in hearing your comments.
OK, he was attacking the zone, but was he throwing strikes? Did this strategy produce any walks? How many innings left in the game? I've watched many college games where 5-8 runs scored in one inning. One thought... if the guy is still pumping FBs after I have 2 strikes, then how much does taking a couple actually hurt me?
Sorry it has taken so long to clarify. First, the player told his father and I after the game at dinner. He along with another player were told to take until 2 strikes.
Second, the situation was the team was getting spanked and the pitcher was throwing fastballs 80% of the pitches. It wasn't until the 6th batter that day when he threw an offspeed pitch. He was absolutely pounding the zone and challenging hitters. Throwing strikes. He wasn't "Just missing".
It was the 2nd game of the series with another game to play the next day. There's no "win the game" baseball rationale for what I saw. It was either lets try to get to their bullpen to use up pitchers ahead of tomorrow's game or he simply had so little confidence in these two hitters that he felt they had a better chance of getting walked than getting a hit. If it's not one of the two reasons, I'm at a loss.
OK, that adds a few pieces to the puzzle, but the picture is not complete by any means. So, just two hitters...
Maybe these two are the best at hitting with two strikes and the P was getting close to a pitch limit for the week. Maybe he thought they were so over-matched and you were down so much and wanted to get to that same pitch limit for the week. Maybe he was pissed because those two looked at grooved FB's all day previously so he was sending a message that they are screwing themselves so they may as well start there anyway. Or maybe, he's a moron. Or a jerk with no concern with what that message tells these two. Or maybe he wanted to send that message that he has no confidence in their hitting and they better get to work between this year and next or find another sport. What better time than down 10-0?
This is fun. What else you got?
From the Singing Umpire to a player:
"Let me tell you something, son".
"Before you get much older",
"You cannot hit the ball, my friend"
"WITH THE BAT UPON YOUR SHOULDER"
Bob
Consultant posted:From the Singing Umpire to a player:
"Let me tell you something, son".
"Before you get much older",
"You cannot hit the ball, my friend"
"WITH THE BAT UPON YOUR SHOULDER"
Bob
Jim T. posted:I heard of a coach telling his guys to take until 2 (TWO) strikes are called. The situation was that his team was down by 10 runs. Is there any rationale for this? The pitcher was throwing fast balls and attacking the strike zone. He was basically pitching to contact. It sounds so crazy that I wonder if I'm missing something?
I would be interested in hearing your comments.
I have not read another post on this thread yet. You want to know what the coach was thinking - get this game over with because we are down 10 runs and we stink today. Get it over with, get on to tomorrow so we can fix whatever went wrong.
Honestly, if he's telling his guys this he is an idiot no matter his rationale. While the smart thing is to get that game over with before it gets worse you cannot give up or have the appearance of giving up. The only productive thing I can think of is take until you get a strike on steroids but it's still dumb.
Jim T. posted:I heard of a coach telling his guys to take until 2 (TWO) strikes are called. The situation was that his team was down by 10 runs. Is there any rationale for this? The pitcher was throwing fast balls and attacking the strike zone. He was basically pitching to contact. It sounds so crazy that I wonder if I'm missing something?
I would be interested in hearing your comments.
he was probably thinking that his hitters are not going to hit him anyway and hoping for walks.
coach2709 posted:Jim T. posted:I heard of a coach telling his guys to take until 2 (TWO) strikes are called. The situation was that his team was down by 10 runs. Is there any rationale for this? The pitcher was throwing fast balls and attacking the strike zone. He was basically pitching to contact. It sounds so crazy that I wonder if I'm missing something?
I would be interested in hearing your comments.
I have not read another post on this thread yet. You want to know what the coach was thinking - get this game over with because we are down 10 runs and we stink today. Get it over with, get on to tomorrow so we can fix whatever went wrong.
Honestly, if he's telling his guys this he is an idiot no matter his rationale. While the smart thing is to get that game over with before it gets worse you cannot give up or have the appearance of giving up. The only productive thing I can think of is take until you get a strike on steroids but it's still dumb.
I tend to agree with your assessment. A losing record for the past 4 years ought to tell everyone a thing or two.
