Tebow

Teaching Elder posted:

You are very correct Realist.  Yet, even more than all of this, I can pretty much guarantee that, as PGstaff noted, Tebow is a great impact in the clubhouse.   The guy is 1) a former Heisman trophy and national championship winning collegiate quarterback 2) a former NFL quarterback 3) a nationally recognized sports analyst and yet one of the best people that these younger players will ever meet.  He is humbly re-learning the game, taking his lumps and working to improve, all the while being a friend to the guy with the multi-million dollar signing bonus as well as the guy who sweeps the clubhouse floors.  They can't find a guy with a more humble spirit and of higher character than Tebow to rub-off onto their younger guys.  He's a great guy and it is all genuine.  He does at home what he does in public.  He actually does not preach, he simply lives his life.  People ask him questions about the importance of baseball, and he thoughtfully replies, "You know, after seeing people in third world countries who can barely stay alive, all of this baseball stuff is really not that important in the grand scheme of life."  We live in a world where some people to presume that we all want and need to know about who they sleep with, and people applaud.  Tebow answers questions thoughtfully, or humbly and quietly kneels after a good play, and people get indignant.

As you said, Tebow will likely not play MLB ball.  You and I and some others totally get this.  But, for those who are pissed off about Tebow being in the game, getting $100,000 etc.  It's the Met's money.  They are free to utilize it as they please.  Your kid was blessed to have an arm to throw 90.  TT was blessed to be a prospect who spent a long time out of the game, needs to get up to speed, but is a great impact in the club-house, brings renewed interest to the game and will almost certainly bring the Mets far more money than the $100,000 they spent.   Somebody feels like Tim's gift is more valuable than your kid's.  Get over it.  This is almost certainly going to happen many more times in Jr.'s life.  Baseball is a game.  Not some sacrosanct religion or a civil right, pump the brakes and dial things down a few notches.

Again.  SDR, PGstaff, I and a few others get it.  It is abundantly clear that TT almost certainly won't make it to the MLB.  But to claim that he is a waste of resources, keeping some other true prospect out of baseball or a disrespect to baseball is senseless conjecture.  

At first I disagreed with your post, but then I put this on in the background and it all made sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAuvTGnC-2E

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

 

Again.  SDR, PGstaff, I and a few others get it.  It is abundantly clear that TT almost certainly won't make it to the MLB.  But to claim that he is a waste of resources, keeping some other true prospect out of baseball or a disrespect to baseball is senseless conjecture.  

No, you don't get it...and this paragraph proves it.

He is, at best, a publicity stunt. If he's in on it, you cannot make the claim of humility that you attribute to him (and I personally feel he is far from humble; the Weird Al line "I'm a million times as humble as thou art" comes to mind.) If he's not in on it, he's being used and not intelligent enough to realize it.

Either way, there is someone out there who would have been on this roster (who knows where to warm up) that is out doing something else right now.

You nailed it. 

FWIW, the Mets lost millions upon millions in Madoffs ponzi scheme. They still havent recovered.  Maybe they thought 100k could turn into some of the millions they lost?  This isnt about him being better than the next guy. 

So we have another topic going on about stats and metrics now determining drafts and player advancements but in this discussion its about being a good role model who is 30 and a physical specimen who cant hit, cant throw and doesnt know which on deck circle he should warm up in getting a chance, have you seen his stats?  Isnt that what the highest level of baseball is about?

This isnt about disliking TT, I resent being called a hater.  I am feelin it for the guy who has workd his butt off for 3,4+ years, put up good numbers but cant get a chance to prove himsef in ML spring training, and probably needs the 1000+ $ a week cash (ML weekly stipend) more than this guy. 

You know most milb free agents wont even try out for them. This hasnt brought on warm fuzzy good feelings for most players, despite what you think.

jacjacatk posted:

Ja'Crispy posted:

The answer for Tebow getting a shot at baseball is he projects better than the next guy in line the Mets were looking to give money to.  Even at 30 years old and not playing for a while he is such and elite athlete with a crazy size/speed ratio he gets a shot.  Coaches believe they can teach him the rest.  That's the same answer a lot of parents get on here asking why their 5'9" RHP who dominates in HS with an 85 MPH fastball doesn't get looked at while the 6'4" RHP who sits 90 MPH and can't hit the glove to save their life gets lots of love. It just happens at all levels.

 

I mean, I realize objective reality is optional for some people, but let's be serious. He's almost 30, he's 0-7 in ST (and headed back to MiLB ST now), put up a .538 OPS in the AFL while striking out 30% of the time, and his best defensive position is DH. Whatever the Mets' reasons for bringing him along, they have nothing to do with his baseball projectability. And I'm sure you can't swing a dead cat in FL right now without hitting a prospect with a better shot of making an MLB impact than Tebow has.

Objective reality has said this.  The market place of very smart people who put up actual money and have actual gains and losses on their decisions have said this guys an athlete give him a shot time and time again. He isn't going to MLB this year.  I don't think anybody is arguing that.  I don't believe you can swing a dead cat in FL right now and hit a prospect with a better shot, there are a lot of guys in minor league camp who are not as good of an athlete as Tebow and are there to create games to play for actual prospects. He has only had ABs in a high number jersey without his name on the back while a lot of players are at the WBC right now.  He got assigned to Minor league camp, to me that says he needs more development.  He is not taking a spot from any serious player right now.  If he doesn't perform the Mets will cut him. But again neither he nor the Mets are raking it in off of this deal.  Its only a long shot deal that probably wont work out, but to argue this guy is a not very intelligent clown who doesn't know basic baseball and is screwing hard working guys who devoted their life to baseball is just not objective reality.

No one said he is screwing anyone, the Mets are.

Go44dad posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

You are very correct Realist.  Yet, even more than all of this, I can pretty much guarantee that, as PGstaff noted, Tebow is a great impact in the clubhouse.   The guy is 1) a former Heisman trophy and national championship winning collegiate quarterback 2) a former NFL quarterback 3) a nationally recognized sports analyst and yet one of the best people that these younger players will ever meet.  He is humbly re-learning the game, taking his lumps and working to improve, all the while being a friend to the guy with the multi-million dollar signing bonus as well as the guy who sweeps the clubhouse floors.  They can't find a guy with a more humble spirit and of higher character than Tebow to rub-off onto their younger guys.  He's a great guy and it is all genuine.  He does at home what he does in public.  He actually does not preach, he simply lives his life.  People ask him questions about the importance of baseball, and he thoughtfully replies, "You know, after seeing people in third world countries who can barely stay alive, all of this baseball stuff is really not that important in the grand scheme of life."  We live in a world where some people to presume that we all want and need to know about who they sleep with, and people applaud.  Tebow answers questions thoughtfully, or humbly and quietly kneels after a good play, and people get indignant.

As you said, Tebow will likely not play MLB ball.  You and I and some others totally get this.  But, for those who are pissed off about Tebow being in the game, getting $100,000 etc.  It's the Met's money.  They are free to utilize it as they please.  Your kid was blessed to have an arm to throw 90.  TT was blessed to be a prospect who spent a long time out of the game, needs to get up to speed, but is a great impact in the club-house, brings renewed interest to the game and will almost certainly bring the Mets far more money than the $100,000 they spent.   Somebody feels like Tim's gift is more valuable than your kid's.  Get over it.  This is almost certainly going to happen many more times in Jr.'s life.  Baseball is a game.  Not some sacrosanct religion or a civil right, pump the brakes and dial things down a few notches.

Again.  SDR, PGstaff, I and a few others get it.  It is abundantly clear that TT almost certainly won't make it to the MLB.  But to claim that he is a waste of resources, keeping some other true prospect out of baseball or a disrespect to baseball is senseless conjecture.  

At first I disagreed with your post, but then I put this on in the background and it all made sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAuvTGnC-2E

Here's a better chant. It really captures the essence of trying to justify Tebow playing baseball.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WhP4DS2WURU

I'm hoping the Red Sox invite the Dali Llama to spring training next year. It could make all the difference in the club house. He is a little passive at the plate though.

RJM posted:

I'm hoping the Red Sox bring invite the Dali Llama to spring training next year. It could make all the difference in the club house. He is a little passive at the plate though.

True, but he's going to be reincarnated into a new body before long.  Talk about projectable!  

Teaching Elder posted:

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

 

Again.  SDR, PGstaff, I and a few others get it.  It is abundantly clear that TT almost certainly won't make it to the MLB.  But to claim that he is a waste of resources, keeping some other true prospect out of baseball or a disrespect to baseball is senseless conjecture.  

No, you don't get it...and this paragraph proves it.

And your reply proves that you either do not take time to read or cannot comprehend rational thought.

Wrong on both counts. Try some maturity next time.

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

 

Again.  SDR, PGstaff, I and a few others get it.  It is abundantly clear that TT almost certainly won't make it to the MLB.  But to claim that he is a waste of resources, keeping some other true prospect out of baseball or a disrespect to baseball is senseless conjecture.  

No, you don't get it...and this paragraph proves it.

And your reply proves that you either do not take time to read or cannot comprehend rational thought.

Wrong on both counts. Try some maturity next time.

LOL!  That you would say such a thing is irony at comic levels.

Ja'Crispy posted:

I believe Tebow was an All-State baseball player as a Junior in HS.  I am sure he knows what on-deck circle to take warm up hacks in. 

His actions belie that statement.

Teaching Elder posted:

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

 

Again.  SDR, PGstaff, I and a few others get it.  It is abundantly clear that TT almost certainly won't make it to the MLB.  But to claim that he is a waste of resources, keeping some other true prospect out of baseball or a disrespect to baseball is senseless conjecture.  

No, you don't get it...and this paragraph proves it.

And your reply proves that you either do not take time to read or cannot comprehend rational thought.

Wrong on both counts. Try some maturity next time.

LOL!  That you would say such a thing is irony at comic levels.

Substantiate your commentary. 

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

 

Again.  SDR, PGstaff, I and a few others get it.  It is abundantly clear that TT almost certainly won't make it to the MLB.  But to claim that he is a waste of resources, keeping some other true prospect out of baseball or a disrespect to baseball is senseless conjecture.  

No, you don't get it...and this paragraph proves it.

And your reply proves that you either do not take time to read or cannot comprehend rational thought.

Wrong on both counts. Try some maturity next time.

LOL!  That you would say such a thing is irony at comic levels.

Substantiate your commentary. 

See above thread.

Teaching Elder posted:

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

Matt13 posted:

Teaching Elder posted:

 

Again.  SDR, PGstaff, I and a few others get it.  It is abundantly clear that TT almost certainly won't make it to the MLB.  But to claim that he is a waste of resources, keeping some other true prospect out of baseball or a disrespect to baseball is senseless conjecture.  

No, you don't get it...and this paragraph proves it.

And your reply proves that you either do not take time to read or cannot comprehend rational thought.

Wrong on both counts. Try some maturity next time.

LOL!  That you would say such a thing is irony at comic levels.

Substantiate your commentary. 

See above thread.

Where have I said anything even remotely along the lines of what you imply?

Matt13 "No, you don't get it...and this paragraph proves it."

Therein lies the essence of a childish, "I just summarily wave-off everything you've said, because I don't like it" statement.

Teaching Elder posted:

Matt13 "No, you don't get it...and this paragraph proves it."

Therein lies the essence of a childish, "I just summarily wave-off everything you've said, because I don't like it" statement.

It can't be summarily when I explained why, but that's not my problem <sips tea>.

However, your desire to insult posters on multiple occasions has been noted.

1) You are not multiple posters.  2) I have not insulted you.  3) In actuality, I believe that it is you that has done the "insulting" of me.  4) I saw where you tried to come back and CYA on your original statement.  Which you did by, amazingly enough, doubling-down on conjecture.

Teaching Elder posted:

1) You are not multiple posters.  2) I have not insulted you.  3) In actuality, I believe that it is you that has done the "insulting" of me.  4) I saw where you tried to come back and CYA on your original statement.  Which you did by, amazingly enough, doubling-down on conjecture.

1) I wasn't referring to just me. 2) Yes, you have. 3) I have not insulted you. 4) Another false accusation.

Oh, far from it.  I have stated that you either did not take time to read or could not understand rational thought, and you have been the one to prove that out through the course of the thread.  Your CYA statement was 

"He is, at best, a publicity stunt. If he's in on it, you cannot make the claim of humility that you attribute to him (and I personally feel he is far from humble; the Weird Al line "I'm a million times as humble as thou art" comes to mind.) If he's not in on it, he's being used and not intelligent enough to realize it.

Either way, there is someone out there who would have been on this roster (who knows where to warm up) that is out doing something else right now."

This is full of conjecture and unproven assumptions.  How do you know that Tebow "is, at best, a publicity stunt"?  Please provide your documentation for this premature evaluation of a career that is still in process.

Please provide documentation that Tebow is "in on (some publicity stunt)" and thus falsely humble.  And please refrain from linking some story about the Mets selling Tebow's jersey and then making yet another conjecture that Tebow was siting in a smoke filled room with Mets brass wringing his hands, laughing a diabolical laugh and joking about how they are going to bilk the world of millions by his false humility.

Tebow is too stupid to realize that he's being used?  Please tell me how that statement is falsifiable.  I would like to know how we are going to test that assertion.  

Please tell us who the guy is that has been denied a roster spot because of Tebow.  This is yet another non-falsifiable claim that just get's thrown around.

I do find one of you statements very intriguing though.  I am nearly 50, have a perforated labrum and can't throw more than 60 or so feet without significant ark.  I can no longer hit anything above, say 75 mph.  However, I do know which side on which to take my warm up swings.  Are you saying I'm a prospect?

Teaching Elder posted:

Oh, far from it.  I have stated that you either did not take time to read or could not understand rational thought, and you have been the one to prove that out through the course of the thread.  Your CYA statement was 

"He is, at best, a publicity stunt. If he's in on it, you cannot make the claim of humility that you attribute to him (and I personally feel he is far from humble; the Weird Al line "I'm a million times as humble as thou art" comes to mind.) If he's not in on it, he's being used and not intelligent enough to realize it.

Either way, there is someone out there who would have been on this roster (who knows where to warm up) that is out doing something else right now."

This is full of conjecture and unproven assumptions.  How do you know that Tebow "is, at best, a publicity stunt"?  Please provide your documentation for this premature evaluation of a career that is still in process.

Please provide documentation that Tebow is "in on (some publicity stunt)" and thus falsely humble.  And please refrain from linking some story about the Mets selling Tebow's jersey and then making yet another conjecture that Tebow was siting in a smoke filled room with Mets brass wringing his hands, laughing a diabolical laugh and joking about how they are going to bilk the world of millions by his false humility.

Tebow is too stupid to realize that he's being used?  Please tell me how that statement is falsifiable.  I would like to know how we are going to test that assertion.  

Please tell us who the guy is that has been denied a roster spot because of Tebow.  This is yet another non-falsifiable claim that just get's thrown around.

I do find one of you statements very intriguing though.  I am nearly 50, have a perforated labrum and can't throw more than 60 or so feet without significant ark.  I can no longer hit anything above, say 75 mph.  However, I do know which side on which to take my warm up swings.  Are you saying I'm a prospect?

How is explaining my thoughts in my post covering my ass?

I never said he WAS on a publicity stunt, despite your assertion. That's what that little word "if" indicates: a conditional statement, not a declaration, especially combined with the converse statement after that.

You also don't understand what non-falsifiable means. Tebow is taking a roster spot. That spot would be filled by someone else if it wasn't him. There doesn't need to be a named person to make that statement true. The only way that statement is false is if one does not accept the premise that that position would be filled.

I have never said that knowing what side to warm up is the only criteria for being a prospect, despite your passive-aggressive and intellectually-dishonest final paragraph.

I think we could use more of the Dalai Lama here.