Tee work

My child did a lot of tee work. However, she never took a swing on a tee without me watching. IMO, Tees can destroy swings if players aren't supervised. Ever see a kid aim at the tee with the bat and then swing without setting up? Ever see kids just destroy the tee itself and miss he ball totally? Ever see kids view the tee as beneath them and so, they go through the motions if a coach isn't right there watching them? I read an interesting post the other day on another site about tee work. The suggestion was that the hitter have to focus on an object beyond the tee and then progress through closer objects to the tee. That made a lot of sense to me.

What T work can do is reinforce poor swing mechanics. In other words if your swing process is flawed you will be spending a lot time getting better at something your doing wrong. I do believe if your swing is good and your reinforcing solid swing mechanics it can be beneficial to a certain degree.

Ok so let's say that your mechanics are good while working on a tee. Now, are the only benefits of the tee to maintain proper mechanics? Are there any other benefits such as increase in bat speed or anything I may not have thought of? I am talking about swinging like 150 times a day, would there be any other benefits as a training tool? Thanks.

Put the tee on a field and hit 150 times a day. If you hit it farther each day/week, you are getting faster bat/exit speed.

I believe that if you are taking 150 cuts a day that you will be wasting your time after about 15 - 20 cuts. Tee work is just a small part of what it takes to become a good hitter. Will it help in terms of developing bat speed / power - yes but there are other things you can do to help create that.

What Sultan of Swat is saying in my opinion would be a good way to measure if you have increased bat speed / power but still wouldn't do more than 15 - 20 cuts.

To become a good hitter you need to find drills that you feel make good connections in developing a good swing and work them. Once you start feeling comfortable in your swing then progress to mostly BP in a cage and / or on the field.

Once you develop a swing you are comfortable with you should only do Tee work to help get loose and reaffirm the mechanics. A good way to see if you are taking good cuts off a tee is notice what happens after the swing is over. Does the ball hit the ground in front of the tee? Bad swing. Does the ball end up hitting higer on the screen? Bad swing. Does the ball come off the tee and go straight into the net? Good swing. Another thing you can do is loosen the tee from the plate a little bit so there is some sway in the tee. After hitting the ball is the tee moving a lot or very little? If it's barely moving then you probably took a good swing but if it's moving quite a bit then probably got more tee than ball on the hit. Basically this is expanding on everything that Coach B25 talked about up above.

If you rely only on tee work then you won't maximize what needs to be done in order to build a good swing.

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Put the tee on a field and hit 150 times a day. If you hit it farther each day/week, you are getting faster bat/exit speed.

Or you could be developing a long loopy swing . Arm baring will also make you hit further. so dont do that.

Do some T work if you dont have cage at least 1 time a week as it will help you eye-bat coordination.

Do T work if your changeing or improving certain mechanics and dont worry where you hit the ball. Just make sure your focusing on your mechanics goal, whether is more hands or hips or neither.

Work on a compact quick swing thats adjustable for breaking balls.

The reason I ask is because I am going to be working this summer and working out as well. I want my mechanics to stay good but I also want to become a better hitter. So from what I'm understand, hitting off a tee is not beneficial for increasing bat speed.
The only positive effect is keeping your mechanics in order. I have hit off a tee enough to know what constitutes a good swing and what the trajectory of the ball should be if a good swing is executed.

I would try to find a cage to hit periodically but I will not have much time to go and do that. Let's say I swung a swift stick a certain amount of times a day then I swung a bat that was only a couple ounces heavier than my current bat off a tee. Would that help with bat speed? All I'm looking for is a way to get better as a hitter with limited space and limited time. Thanks.

Johnny,

If you check underload and overload threads you might see some stuff on batspeed improvement.

Can't just swing heavy as you are only training the muscles to move slower. Need to swing lighter also.

Ya I know. I put that in there about the swift stick.

http://baseballtips.com/products/swiftstik.jpg

I've read all about overload underload training. I know that you cannot just train with a heavier weight because that will just make you slower. You also need to train the fast twitch muscles and program your body to move fast. I was just looking for a way to become a better hitter with limited space? The overload/underload was just an example. I only have room for tee work and possibly side flips. I would be hitting into a pop up screen.

I like tee work. But there's always a purpose and it always is a relatively brief station. We do high tee, double tee and work proper contact point for the outside pitch a lot. but I agree it needs to be monitored.

If you want to increase batspeed, try the overload/underload stuff. I have used it and I noticed a significant increase in batspeed. For the overload I used power fins. (http://www.eastbay.com/product...eds-_-Froogle-_-null). I liked the power fins much more than a bat weight because there seemed to be resistance throughout my swing rather than just at the beginning.

The swift stick you mentioned would be perfect for the underload. I would suggest to keep hitting off the tee as well to re-enforce proper mechanics.

What I did was take fifty swings with the over, fifty with the under, and fifty off the tee every day. It took me only about 30 mins and produced great results.

Good Luck.

EDIT: I think I began with thirty of each and then worked my way up.

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Tee Work, if done with correct mechanics, will refine the swing. This helps your swing become more fluid/efficient, increasing bat speed. How much depends on all kinds of variables.

Strength/Conditioning will improve the velocity of the ball coming off the bat. Situps, medicine ball drills, etc. can build core strength in the lower body (lower torso/hips).

Ok so pretty much the best way for me to get better off a tee is to work on proper mechanics and swing every day off the tee with a lighter bat, a heavier bat, and a regular bat? Anyone else have any suggestions?

Move the tee around; in the zone and hit the ball to targets. Also simulate hitting fastballs and getting breaking balls and changeups... keeping your hands back and then hitting the ball...

Ill post all the tee drills the yankees use.. It def helps.

http://bluecollarbaseball.com/?p=308

I suggest you get away from the tee.....Worst swing prop ever....

If you have personal instruction present or are an advanced hitter,T work is a vital tool for muscle memory.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Ro4Y55RDE

No such thing as muscle memory......

Muscles are conditioned, not trained....The brain controls memory.....

This is my personal work with the tee, it's what works for me but I guess I don't advocate it for everyone because I think people should do what works for them, just thought I'd share.

I mainly use the tee to loosen up...

I use it get loose and get to the point where I can backspin about 4-5 in a row to the back of the cage, then I move on to front toss. I usually don't swing too hard on the tee, just enough to feel out a good path to the ball.

Everything I hit off the tee is about belt high, down the middle or just on the outer third. I usually set the tee up in front of the plate and position myself so my stride foot comes down right in line with the tee. I try to hit everything on a backspin line drive up the middle. I like to set up the ball with the two parallel seams facing up/down back towards the plate(like this "||") and I think about hitting the inside seam to stay inside the baseball.

Every once in a while I'll do high tee to get the feel for some backspin. And if I'm struggling with getting out of the zone too quick, I'll set the tee up on the inner third and still work up the middle.

I HATE moving the tee to the corners. I feel like I can't get the feel for hitting the ball on the corners by hitting off the tee. I have no rhythm to my swing and I can never put the tee in the right contact point to where I actually hit a pitch on the inside or outside corners. It basically messes me up, so I don't do it.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
No such thing as muscle memory......

Muscles are conditioned, not trained....The brain controls memory.....

Blue Dog, I disagree, The tee is a vital tool, and def is such a thing as muscle memory. I appreciate your view but I think it exists

Are their great hitters, in the modern era, that haven't used the TEE as a part of their training?

Did Tony Gwynn win 7 or 9 batting titles? Not sure, I need to google it but I know I've heard him say that he "swears by the tee and always hits exclusively (won't take BP) off it when he's struggling." Good enough for me when coupled with my personal experiences.

Speaking to an earlier comment; any POORLY executed repetitive movement will only enhance continued poorly executed movements. Such would be the result no matter what training method you employ or if you don't train at all ... the results the same. Can't see what that has to do with the Tee.

quote:

def is such a thing as muscle memory..........I think it exists

Yes, you do....And, so do many others.....

Now, the word "definitely" and "think" don't go so well together.....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

def is such a thing as muscle memory..........I think it exists

Yes, you do....And, so do many others.....

Now, the word "definitely" and "think" don't go so well together.....

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
No such thing as muscle memory......

Muscles are conditioned, not trained....The brain controls memory.....

Incorrect - there is no such thing as muscle memory
Correct - the brain controls memory.
Correct - muscles have no memory.

You definitely don't understand the meaning of the word memory as it is used in the term muscle memory. Muscle memory refers to the subconscious mind's ability to control muscle actions via repetitive TRAINING. Muscle memory is created when a movement is repeated many times. This training eventually allows the movement to be performed without conscious effort.


BlueDog, you really have a poor understanding of a basic concept that is used WIDELY in all of sport.

quote:

Originally posted by Prime9:
Are their great hitters, in the modern era, that haven't used the TEE as a part of their training?

Did Tony Gwynn win 7 or 9 batting titles? Not sure, I need to google it but I know I've heard him say that he "swears by the tee and always hits exclusively (won't take BP) off it when he's struggling." Good enough for me when coupled with my personal experiences.

Speaking to an earlier comment; any POORLY executed repetitive movement will only enhance continued poorly executed movements. Such would be the result no matter what training method you employ or if you don't train at all ... the results the same. Can't see what that has to do with the Tee.

This is true and so,if you can learn bad habits from a T,when done correctly,it only stands to reason that good habits can be learned as well.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

def is such a thing as muscle memory..........I think it exists

Yes, you do....And, so do many others.....

Now, the word "definitely" and "think" don't go so well together.....

lol
thought it was a baseball forum. not an english critique.

quote:

BlueDog, you really have a poor understanding of a basic concept that is used WIDELY in all of sport.

I can see you are a member of the, "this is how it's always been done" club....

Well, you have an opportunity to listen and learn.....Up to you if you take advantage of the opportunity, or not.....

quote:

I can see you are a member of the, "this is how it's always been done" club....

Well, you have an opportunity to listen and learn.....Up to you if you take advantage of the opportunity, or not.....

Actually, this is not how it has always been done. Muscle memory is real. Just ask any athlete, musician, or anyone else trained for repetitive motion. It has also been proven in my life in many ways. The concept is so obviously correct and scientifically proven that I am laughing at your ingorance. I live right here next to the Olympic training center where this concept is put into practice everyday and is used religiously. I guess all those gold medals aren't enough for you?

I am always open-minded and looking for new perspectives and concepts. It is you who is missing opportunities. I am listening and eager for something to learn from you...My three engineering degrees are proof that I know how to learn. I have read and studied your words, but there is no useful content regarding baseball. So go ahead, I am attentively focused on your message...

BlueDog, well thought out and articulated. Some of your best work to date.

quote:

This is true and so,if you can learn bad habits from a T,when done correctly,it only stands to reason that good habits can be learned as well.

Thanks for clarifying the point I was trying to make!

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

Blue, I'm now sure that you hold an esteemed Political Office. If not, you missed your opportunity to utilize your considerable ability to speak and say nothing.

Let's call this thread "Toast" ... shall we?

am i the only one that thinks the kangaroo is the most hes contributed?

In a study done somewhere between 2003 and 2005, results showed that there was no such thing as "muscle memory." The study suggested that phrase was meaningless. The quest to establish motor learning patterns is not quantative since no two humans are alike. The study suggested that no two humans understand the same phisological requirements to produce athletic movement and so, can't repeat movements exactly the same and so, no "control grouping" per any athletic activity can be established to make any significant measurements. It also suggested that the brain does control links to "habit" and can change "habit" but again, no two people are the same and so, who knows how long it will take any given human to change "habit." I'm citing a lot of this from memory and do not know the source. I will say that "habit" isn't necessairly "motor memory" as it was defined in the study. I believe, but am not positive, that Blue Dog read that study. It was cited a few years ago on this site. If he'd care to post the author I'd appreciate it.

Having said all of this, I still coach with the saying, "Repetition is no fun but its the reason we have won." So, perhaps hypocritical of me making this response but then again, if one can identify some habits that prevent one from advancing their abilities, then they can help their players.

NOTE - Habit example, double toe touch might not be conducive to some for developing an efficient swing and so, they might want to break that habit. That isn't necessairly muscle memory. I hope this makes sense.


BTW, anyone else that might remeber that article is welcomed to cite it as well. I know a website it is on but will have to do a search there for it.

I'll accept the study but I do agree with your statement about repition. I have had kids that had alot of trouble recognizing an outisde pitch, letting it get deeper in the zone and hitting it off their back leg. However after repitition and repitition, now without thinking, they recognize it and slap it the other way.

CoachB25 - thank you for the information. It helps to understand where some of the opinions on this board may have originated. I would appreciate it if anyone can post a link of this research. I have serious doubts as to its validity based on my experience in sport and music, where the concept is used at the highest levels.

quote:

In a study done somewhere between 2003 and 2005, results showed that there was no such thing as "muscle memory." The study suggested that phrase was meaningless.

A study conducted by whom? I wonder how they defined muscle memory? The study suggested or proved the phrase was meaningless?

quote:

The quest to establish motor learning patterns is not quantative since no two humans are alike.

Anyone ever heard of the Heisenberg principle? Just because something is not quantifiable, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

quote:

The study suggested that no two humans understand the same phisological requirements to produce athletic movement and so, can't repeat movements exactly the same and so, no "control grouping" per any athletic activity can be established to make any significant measurements.

This is nothing more than an admission that the people who conducted the study couldn't figure out how to make useful measurements. It does not state that a useful 'control grouping' does not exist.

quote:

It also suggested that the brain does control links to "habit" and can change "habit" but again, no two people are the same and so, who knows how long it will take any given human to change "habit."

Again, the meaning of this depends on how the study defined habit and muscle memory. Here is a definition of habit that I just googled: 'A recurrent, often unconscious pattern of behavior that is acquired through frequent repetition'.

Wow, earily similar to the definition of muscle memory except for the hair splitting of the words subconscious vs unconscious. Yet, muscle memory is meaningless? What does 'how long it might take' have to do with whether muscle memory is real or not?

CoachB25, I really do appreciate you pointing out the study. I am very interested and will start doing some research. Until then, I'll stick with my belief that muscle memory exists (at least my definition of it) until I am able to read a well done, complete study with compelling information that proves that it doesn't.

Respectfully,
Larry

My thought on tee work is this: If you can't hit a stationary ball square on a consistant basis your odds of squarely hitting a moving ball drop noticeably. The tee gives you instant feedback as to being over under or on the ball. This is especially important for the younger players.

Hitting a ball hard is fine.

Hitting a ball well is better.

Ball Coach, posting a link to that study will do no good as MVSquared is not here to learn.....

He is here to show how much he knows.....

Teework,BP,drills,lessons....all can be done well so that the hitter improves and all can be done poorly so that they have a negative impact on the hitter.

The muscle memory discussion is becoming another debate centered around semantics.