Television ratings for MLB continue to dominate prime time

luv baseball posted:

I'll use the NY teams as an example.  The NY Giants have at least 5 players - Beckham, Apple, Jenkins, Collins and Shepherd that are FAR more athletic than anyone on the NY Mets except for possibly Rosario and there might be 4 Yankees that are as athletic - Judge, Hicks, Gardiner, Gregorius and maybe Castro.  But Beckham and Jenkins outclass even the Yankees athletically with Judge's power being the exception here.  My estimate is based on the fact that every NFL team has at least two of these specimens that outclass almost everyone in MLB and at least 10 that are equal to or better.   For the players that can run - the NFL players to a man are probably stronger.  There are linebackers & DE as fast as CF and middle infielders in MLB.  Vaughn Miller for example.  MLB is sprinkled with a few truly great athletes.  The NFL is populated with them.  Every NFL team has 10 to15 guys that are Mike Trout physically while baseball teams might have a few. 

I was defining athletic as size, speed, agility and strength.  From there I was projecting that only 5-10% might have baseball skills - hitting & throwing.  If they can hit it is safe to assume they will do so for power.  That would make them all 5 tool prospects with elite physical skill.  The guy I would use as a comp is McCutcheon - every NFL team has 10 to 15 of him from a size, speed and strength perspective.  Have to believe at least 1 of them could have become a skilled baseball player had they started at 8 and stayed focused on the game.  To think that many gifted athletes would have those baseball skills is probably understating rather than overstating the likelihood.  Hell Deion Sanders was competent playing baseball part time and Bo Jackson was an all star and he didn't focus on baseball until he was in his 20's. 

Baseball would still have Chris Davis because the ability to hit 40 HR's is still the premium skill in the sport. But could he be replaced by Cam Newton had he played baseball - yep.  Either way guys like Neil Walker who have been  decent players for a decade who is all over the place in baseball - gets upgraded physically if NFL players became MLB prospects.   I don't think there really is much doubt about it. 

To think that the next Willie Mays, Henry Aaron or Frank Robinson was a WR or DB in the 1990's that you can't even name is far more likely than anyone in MLB becoming the next Randy Moss or Jerry Rice both of whom would have made good looking CF prospects - if they could hit and throw.  To extend the point - the 2 best players from the 90's Griffey & Bonds both all time greats and sons of baseball players - illustrate my point exactly which is higher African American participation in baseball would make the game better.  Those guys are now playing DB or WR in the NFL.

I'm all for higher African-American participation in baseball. And I don't doubt that there are some NFL players who could've been great baseball players. I suppose we're not that far apart on the issue. But I guess I just find the premise that football is overloaded with the best athletes (say, 60 athletes better than anyone in MLB) unlikely because baseball is drawing from a larger talent pool (as is basketball). The NFL draws its players exclusively from the USA, whereas baseball is over 30% from outside the U.S. I agree that baseball is missing out on some great African-American athletes who play football. But football is missing out on great athletes from the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Cuba, Japan, etc., etc. As much as I love the US of A, I can find no reason to believe that we have cornered the market on high end athletic talent.

As I noted in my initial comment on this aspect of the string - baseball is in position due to the new found diversity of the last 25 years, Hispanics and Asians on the field but also the increasing numbers of Blacks and Hispanics on coaching staffs and managing.  Now with Jeter and Johsnon in ownership the game is more vertically integrated than ever before giving it a chance to dispel that it is a white game to American blacks.

The backdrop of CTE and injury in general in football adds to the opportunity to attract these players.  As for the numbers and delta's among the players/sports and countries - I will l admit I do not have science - just my lying eyes.    

I do agree with PG that basketball has another breed of cat in it.  Those guys have real hand eye coordination - you have to think that Curry, Thompson, Leonard and George to name a few would have been prodigious prospects in baseball.    

2019Dad posted:

luv baseball posted:

I'll use the NY teams as an example.  The NY Giants have at least 5 players - Beckham, Apple, Jenkins, Collins and Shepherd that are FAR more athletic than anyone on the NY Mets except for possibly Rosario and there might be 4 Yankees that are as athletic - Judge, Hicks, Gardiner, Gregorius and maybe Castro.  But Beckham and Jenkins outclass even the Yankees athletically with Judge's power being the exception here.  My estimate is based on the fact that every NFL team has at least two of these specimens that outclass almost everyone in MLB and at least 10 that are equal to or better.   For the players that can run - the NFL players to a man are probably stronger.  There are linebackers & DE as fast as CF and middle infielders in MLB.  Vaughn Miller for example.  MLB is sprinkled with a few truly great athletes.  The NFL is populated with them.  Every NFL team has 10 to15 guys that are Mike Trout physically while baseball teams might have a few. 

I was defining athletic as size, speed, agility and strength.  From there I was projecting that only 5-10% might have baseball skills - hitting & throwing.  If they can hit it is safe to assume they will do so for power.  That would make them all 5 tool prospects with elite physical skill.  The guy I would use as a comp is McCutcheon - every NFL team has 10 to 15 of him from a size, speed and strength perspective.  Have to believe at least 1 of them could have become a skilled baseball player had they started at 8 and stayed focused on the game.  To think that many gifted athletes would have those baseball skills is probably understating rather than overstating the likelihood.  Hell Deion Sanders was competent playing baseball part time and Bo Jackson was an all star and he didn't focus on baseball until he was in his 20's. 

Baseball would still have Chris Davis because the ability to hit 40 HR's is still the premium skill in the sport. But could he be replaced by Cam Newton had he played baseball - yep.  Either way guys like Neil Walker who have been  decent players for a decade who is all over the place in baseball - gets upgraded physically if NFL players became MLB prospects.   I don't think there really is much doubt about it. 

To think that the next Willie Mays, Henry Aaron or Frank Robinson was a WR or DB in the 1990's that you can't even name is far more likely than anyone in MLB becoming the next Randy Moss or Jerry Rice both of whom would have made good looking CF prospects - if they could hit and throw.  To extend the point - the 2 best players from the 90's Griffey & Bonds both all time greats and sons of baseball players - illustrate my point exactly which is higher African American participation in baseball would make the game better.  Those guys are now playing DB or WR in the NFL.

I'm all for higher African-American participation in baseball. And I don't doubt that there are some NFL players who could've been great baseball players. I suppose we're not that far apart on the issue. But I guess I just find the premise that football is overloaded with the best athletes (say, 60 athletes better than anyone in MLB) unlikely because baseball is drawing from a larger talent pool (as is basketball). The NFL draws its players exclusively from the USA, whereas baseball is over 30% from outside the U.S. I agree that baseball is missing out on some great African-American athletes who play football. But football is missing out on great athletes from the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Cuba, Japan, etc., etc. As much as I love the US of A, I can find no reason to believe that we have cornered the market on high end athletic talent.

Think how big, strong, fast baseball players would be if they didn't spend so much practice time hitting, throwing and fielding.

infielddad posted:

rynoattack posted:

The NFL has a lot of problems right now:

• Concussions
• Other Sports (Soccer & Lacrosse are gaining a lot of popularity)
• Anthem Protests

All of these reasons can only help baseball, because football fans are turning away.  As far as concussions, there are a lot of former football players that don't want their kids playing football.

The NFL is brutal, from a player contract perspective.

Just read an article that Navarro Bowman was released by the 49ers.  This guy does not have a guaranteed contract but he does have a contract through 2022 which (if it were MLB) would be worth around $31,000,000 to him.  He came back from one of the most brutal knee and lower extremity injuries imaginable.  Does so and then last year tears his achilles. Rehabs back from that and starts the first 5 games (0-5). Now he is released.

In MLB the team would have to honor his entire contract through 2022. NFL...not so much. 

Bowman will have huge medical issues with that knee in 10-15 years. My guess is he  will have to get a lawyer and fight for every day of treatment when that occurs.

Before the 2016 season Navarro signed a 4 year, $44M contract with $20M guaranteed. I would say be made out being cut after a season and a third. He can now sign a new contract. He will be in demand. 

Because NFL players contracts are not guaranteed their agents usually negotiate large signing bonuses and/or a certain amount of guaranteed money.

Health insurance coverage last for five years after their career. They have to play five years to be eligible. The average career is three and a half years.

PGStaff posted:

I think there are more great athletes in Football and Basketball.  But there have been some of the most highly regarded HS Football players that are now playing professional baseball. However the highest ranked basketball players almost always stick to basketball, mainly because they concentrate on basketball year around.

IMO, NBA players, anyway many of them, are the best athletes in professional sports.  I also agree that we (baseball) are very likely missing some black players that might have been the next Willie Mays, Henry Aaron, Barry Bonds type players.  Baseball is a sport that requires years of learning. So does basketball.  A great athlete can be an excellent football player in a short period of time.

I also believe there is more opportunity in baseball than any other sport.  Baseball is a giant industry and many people and players that never made it to the top are making a living in baseball.  I wish more young kids understood the opportunities available in baseball.

RJM, with all due respect, before calling Carl Crawford soft you should know his entire story.  He grew up in poverty and was one of the best option QBs in Texas HS history,  He was committed to U of Nebraska and was also recruited by top college basketball programs.  

Baseball wasn't his best sport, but he had to sign because of the money.  An unbelievable athlete that suffered through many injuries during a very lucrative career. He was one that made the right decision going with baseball. It is actually the great athletes that suffer the most by injury.  Taking speed away from a great athlete can end a career. They didn't pay Carl all that money thinking he was soft. 

Being a big fan of both football and baseball, I still wish baseball would get more of those great athletes playing those sports.

Crawford was soft relative to playing in a competitive, intense northeast environment with high expectations. He was always whining how the press treated him. The fans pulled for him until he was all whine and no production. He was still whining two years after he was traded. 

Dear Northeast Intense Media Markets,

What is wrong with ya'll?

Go44dad posted:

Dear Northeast Intense Media Markets,

What is wrong with ya'll?

baseballmom posted:

Go44dad posted:

Dear Northeast Intense Media Markets,

What is wrong with ya'll?

They’re major markets. They have money to spend. With money comes expectations. They’re major media markets with more scrutiny on success and failure. They’re less mobile generational markets. It’s generational fandom passed down. It generates more intensity. 

Athletes in Boston say if you’re producing you’re a god. If your not producing it’s hard to go out in public. Some players don’t like being a god. They want to be able to walk the streets and go unnoticed. 

The same environment is true in NYC and Philadelphia. The same applies to hockey in Canada. Wayne Gretzky said he couldn’t breath in Edmonton. He said in LA he was just another celebrity in the crowd.

I’ve lived in Boston, New York, Philadelphia, San Diego, LA and San Francisco. In the first three when the team loses the fans die until the next game. Talk radio goes crazy. I’ve seen people in SD, LA and SF who think they’re diehard fans. When their team loses life goes on until the next game/season. LA fans mistake whining for caring. The letters to the LA Times can be funny.

With business travel I’ve spent a lot of time in many cities and attended sports events in their stadiums/arenas. I have impressions. But it’s not the same as having lived there. 

Want to be entertained? Listen to Philadelphia sports talk radio after the Eagles lose. My belief is Philadelphia sports fans are the most psychotic and/or bi polar in the country.

When teams win championships their players get in front of a microphone and say, “We have the greatest fans in the world.” The best fans are those who are there when the team isn’t winning. 

In Boston the fans are there win or lose for all four teams. If the team isn’t winning fans and media want heads to roll. 

Obviously every fan isn’t the same. But this is a long term view of the typical fan in these areas. 

RJM posted:

baseballmom posted:

Go44dad posted:

Dear Northeast Intense Media Markets,

What is wrong with ya'll?

They’re major markets. They have money to spend. With money comes expectations. They’re major media markets with more scrutiny on success and failure. They’re less mobile generational markets. It’s generational fandom passed down. It generates more intensity. 

Athletes in Boston say if you’re producing you’re a god. If your not producing it’s hard to go out in public. Some players don’t like being a god. They want to be able to walk the streets and go unnoticed. 

The same environment is true in NYC and Philadelphia. The same applies to hockey in Canada. Wayne Gretzky said he couldn’t breath in Edmonton. He said in LA he was just another celebrity in the crowd.

I’ve lived in Boston, New York, Philadelphia, San Diego, LA and San Francisco. In the first three when the team loses the fans die until the next game. Talk radio goes crazy. I’ve seen people in SD, LA and SF who think they’re diehard fans. When their team loses life goes on until the next game/season. LA fans mistake whining for caring. The letters to the LA Times can be funny.

With business travel I’ve spent a lot of time in many cities and attended sports events in their stadiums/arenas. I have impressions. But it’s not the same as having lived there. 

Want to be entertained? Listen to Philadelphia sports talk radio after the Eagles lose. My belief is Philadelphia sports fans are the most psychotic and/or bi polar in the country.

When teams win championships their players get in front of a microphone and say, “We have the greatest fans in the world.” The best fans are those who are there when the team isn’t winning. 

In Boston the fans are there win or lose for all four teams. If the team isn’t winning fans and media want heads to roll. 

Obviously every fan isn’t the same. But this is a long term view of the typical fan in these areas. 

That was a really well thought out answer. 

Go44dad posted:

RJM posted:

baseballmom posted:

Go44dad posted:

Dear Northeast Intense Media Markets,

What is wrong with ya'll?

They’re major markets. They have money to spend. With money comes expectations. They’re major media markets with more scrutiny on success and failure. They’re less mobile generational markets. It’s generational fandom passed down. It generates more intensity. 

Athletes in Boston say if you’re producing you’re a god. If your not producing it’s hard to go out in public. Some players don’t like being a god. They want to be able to walk the streets and go unnoticed. 

The same environment is true in NYC and Philadelphia. The same applies to hockey in Canada. Wayne Gretzky said he couldn’t breath in Edmonton. He said in LA he was just another celebrity in the crowd.

I’ve lived in Boston, New York, Philadelphia, San Diego, LA and San Francisco. In the first three when the team loses the fans die until the next game. Talk radio goes crazy. I’ve seen people in SD, LA and SF who think they’re diehard fans. When their team loses life goes on until the next game/season. LA fans mistake whining for caring. The letters to the LA Times can be funny.

With business travel I’ve spent a lot of time in many cities and attended sports events in their stadiums/arenas. I have impressions. But it’s not the same as having lived there. 

Want to be entertained? Listen to Philadelphia sports talk radio after the Eagles lose. My belief is Philadelphia sports fans are the most psychotic and/or bi polar in the country.

When teams win championships their players get in front of a microphone and say, “We have the greatest fans in the world.” The best fans are those who are there when the team isn’t winning. 

In Boston the fans are there win or lose for all four teams. If the team isn’t winning fans and media want heads to roll. 

Obviously every fan isn’t the same. But this is a long term view of the typical fan in these areas. 

That was a really well thought out answer. 

It was either type or yell at the tv (Patriots game).

RJM posted:

Go44dad posted:

RJM posted:

baseballmom posted:

Go44dad posted:

Dear Northeast Intense Media Markets,

What is wrong with ya'll?

They’re major markets. They have money to spend. With money comes expectations. They’re major media markets with more scrutiny on success and failure. They’re less mobile generational markets. It’s generational fandom passed down. It generates more intensity. 

Athletes in Boston say if you’re producing you’re a god. If your not producing it’s hard to go out in public. Some players don’t like being a god. They want to be able to walk the streets and go unnoticed. 

The same environment is true in NYC and Philadelphia. The same applies to hockey in Canada. Wayne Gretzky said he couldn’t breath in Edmonton. He said in LA he was just another celebrity in the crowd.

I’ve lived in Boston, New York, Philadelphia, San Diego, LA and San Francisco. In the first three when the team loses the fans die until the next game. Talk radio goes crazy. I’ve seen people in SD, LA and SF who think they’re diehard fans. When their team loses life goes on until the next game/season. LA fans mistake whining for caring. The letters to the LA Times can be funny.

With business travel I’ve spent a lot of time in many cities and attended sports events in their stadiums/arenas. I have impressions. But it’s not the same as having lived there. 

Want to be entertained? Listen to Philadelphia sports talk radio after the Eagles lose. My belief is Philadelphia sports fans are the most psychotic and/or bi polar in the country.

When teams win championships their players get in front of a microphone and say, “We have the greatest fans in the world.” The best fans are those who are there when the team isn’t winning. 

In Boston the fans are there win or lose for all four teams. If the team isn’t winning fans and media want heads to roll. 

Obviously every fan isn’t the same. But this is a long term view of the typical fan in these areas. 

That was a really well thought out answer. 

It was either type or yell at the tv (Patriots game).

A Patriots fan yelling at the TV? Now that's funny!

You, your tv and especially your remote would not survive as a Cowboys fan. 

We do suffer as Boston fans. There are years one of the teams doesn’t win a championship. Sometimes there’s a two year gap.  I love teasing my son (a Philadelphia fan) I have my favorite parade watching spot. 

I was thinking earlier today how spoiled we are. The Patriots will win their division. But they’re too sloppy to survive the playoffs. So they suck. They haven’t won it all since February.

The Red Sox have won back to back division titles and a World Series five seasons ago. But they lost in the first round the last two years. Get rid of the moron manager! This week the Celtics start their season. They're  built for success for the next several years coming off a first seed last year. If only the Bruins were a well run organization. 

But I grew up with the Patriots being the most pathetic organization in sports. It was so bad they let us sneak into games. The Red Sox were awesome at coming in second. But the Celtics dominated. And the Bruins won a couple of Stanley Cups. 

hshuler, YEP, Cowboys fans are nuts!   

baseballmom posted:

hshuler, YEP, Cowboys fans are nuts!   

Yes, I was one of them. Now, I simply change the channel. I have learned to choose my frustrations wisely. 

Update on NFL ratings: down 9.7% in 2017, and about 17% over the past two years. Still the big dog, but 17% is a sizable drop. www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21...-2017-regular-season

The problem the NFL has is parity/mediocrity combined with over saturation. There aren’t enough quality matchups each week to have SNF, MNF and TNF plus the prime late Sunday afternoon game. There were several weeks with only one or two games where both teams had a winning record. When MNF started it was special. It was the priority game of the week. It was always a great matchup unless one team didn’t meet season expectations. 

The NFL also has a kneeling problem that MLB doesn't have.

MLB teams have about 2 black players and NFL teams have about 30 - it is easy to see why the NFL is more likely to have gone down the path it did.  

The NBA dealt with this problem 20 years ago because of a Muslim protesting - and developed rules around anthem protocols.

luv baseball posted:

MLB teams have about 2 black players and NFL teams have about 30 - it is easy to see why the NFL is more likely to have gone down the path it did.  

The NBA dealt with this problem 20 years ago because of a Muslim protesting - and developed rules around anthem protocols.

There are plenty of black players in the MLB.  It seems baseball players or maybe baseball organizations have more respect.

Good for the NBA!!  The NFL should take the same stance.  That's my problem with them and why I don't watch NFL games now, for the most part.  Once Goodell makes a stand on this nonsense, I'll start watching again...

bballman posted:

luv baseball posted:

MLB teams have about 2 black players and NFL teams have about 30 - it is easy to see why the NFL is more likely to have gone down the path it did.  

The NBA dealt with this problem 20 years ago because of a Muslim protesting - and developed rules around anthem protocols.

There are plenty of black players in the MLB.  It seems baseball players or maybe baseball organizations have more respect.

MLB says 8.5% (U.S. and Canadian born). That's an average of 2.125 players per 25-man roster.

https://www.mlb.com/news/study...verstated/c-44425610

MidAtlanticDad posted:

bballman posted:

luv baseball posted:

MLB teams have about 2 black players and NFL teams have about 30 - it is easy to see why the NFL is more likely to have gone down the path it did.  

The NBA dealt with this problem 20 years ago because of a Muslim protesting - and developed rules around anthem protocols.

There are plenty of black players in the MLB.  It seems baseball players or maybe baseball organizations have more respect.

MLB says 8.5% (U.S. and Canadian born). That's an average of 2.125 players per 25-man roster.

https://www.mlb.com/news/study...verstated/c-44425610

Why count only US and Canadian born black players?  Maybe because US players are spoiled brats and those from other countries appreciate the freedoms and opportunities afforded to them in this country?

Smitty28 posted:

The NFL also has a kneeling problem that MLB doesn't have.

The NFL doesn’t have a kneeling problem. By the end of the season only seven players were kneeling. It was the Fox News Hannity and gang that pushed and pushed week after week kneeling was about disrespecting military and police. It kept the gullible right wingnuts on board. 

luv baseball posted:

MLB teams have about 2 black players and NFL teams have about 30 - it is easy to see why the NFL is more likely to have gone down the path it did.  

The NBA dealt with this problem 20 years ago because of a Muslim protesting - and developed rules around anthem protocols.

The player was Chris Jackson/Mahmoud Abdul-Raul. He was playing for the Nuggets at the time. The NBA did not take care of the issue. Adam Silver, current NBA commissioner told the players they could kneel without penalty. Some teams locked arms during the anthem for a while. 

There isn’t a need to kneel anymore. The real concerned players like Malcolm Jenkins of the Eagles used the attention he drew to the situation by kneeling to speak with various police organizations and speak before Congress. There are plenty of players who used kneeling to create interaction with the police community. 

RJM posted:

Smitty28 posted:

The NFL also has a kneeling problem that MLB doesn't have.

The NFL doesn’t have a kneeling problem. By the end of the season only seven players were kneeling. It was the Fox News Hannity and gang that pushed and pushed week after week kneeling was about disrespecting military and police. It kept the gullible right wingnuts on board. 

It's the kneeling...  Doesn't matter how many are doing it, people are pissed at the league (ie. Goodell) for not taking a stand.  Until they do, many people won't be watching - and it has nothing to do with Fox News or Hannity...

And it's not so much the kneeling, it's when they are kneeling.  Kneel before the National Anthem.  Kneel after the game at the 50 yard line.  Don't kneel while our National Anthem is playing and the Armed Forces Color Guard is standing at attention while presenting the flag.

And anyone who says this isn't about the flag is wrong.  Lest you forget what Kaepernick said to start the whole thing -

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,"

He made it about the flag, and many people don't forget that. 

Regardless of what Kaelernick said almost every player kneeling has been very clear it’s not about the flag and the military. That’s the BS Fox News and Breitbart has bleated week after week. 

RJM posted:

Regardless of what Kaelernick said almost every player kneeling has been very clear it’s not about the flag and the military. That’s the BS Fox News and Breitbart has bleated week after week. 

With all due respect, it doesn't matter what they say.  Their actions are disrespectful.  As I said earlier, they can kneel before the National Anthem or they can kneel in the end zone or at the 50 yard line after the game.  WHEN they have chosen to kneel is the issue, not the kneeling itself.

They are absolutely kneeling for the flag.  They wanted to poke a stick in the eye of a certain segment of the population. A lot found out that this wasn't good for business some will never learn. Much like little kids they just don't like to admit it was about the flag and make mealy mouth excuses when they get cornered on it. Neither Fox News which is hardly right wing, just not kooky out of the mainstream left wing like every other TV News broadcast, nor Hannity are the reasons that this started. This all started from a proven lie, hands up don't shoot, that was perpetuated and given credibility by the former President. We have sworn Grand Jury testimony of what really happened but the gullible left doesn't care about that the narrative is more important.

Too much football isn't reason ratings are down trying to sell too much of a product people don't want is. Replay has probably done more to ruin the product than kneeling but when you have a mediocre product it is easy to not watch when people want to use it to make a point you know is false.

Ja'Crispy posted:

They are absolutely kneeling for the flag.  They wanted to poke a stick in the eye of a certain segment of the population. A lot found out that this wasn't good for business some will never learn. Much like little kids they just don't like to admit it was about the flag and make mealy mouth excuses when they get cornered on it. Neither Fox News which is hardly right wing, just not kooky out of the mainstream left wing like every other TV News broadcast, nor Hannity are the reasons that this started. This all started from a proven lie, hands up don't shoot, that was perpetuated and given credibility by the former President. We have sworn Grand Jury testimony of what really happened but the gullible left doesn't care about that the narrative is more important.

Too much football isn't reason ratings are down trying to sell too much of a product people don't want is. Replay has probably done more to ruin the product than kneeling but when you have a mediocre product it is easy to not watch when people want to use it to make a point you know is false.

Requoted because I could only like it once. The ratings for NFL playoffs will great because the product in the playoffs is great. 

I personally love when the folks on the left get all supperior and act as if the other side are all dumbasses. The inability to compromise is stunning. For 8 years the left did what they damn well please... and they went batshit crazy to point they allowed trump to win because they ran such a god awful candidate....sadly he was the best option.

In baseball terms, They walked the bases loaded and then balked in 3 runs and now want complain about the field conditions....good luck with that 

Ja'Crispy posted:

They are absolutely kneeling for the flag.  They wanted to poke a stick in the eye of a certain segment of the population. A lot found out that this wasn't good for business some will never learn. Much like little kids they just don't like to admit it was about the flag and make mealy mouth excuses when they get cornered on it. Neither Fox News which is hardly right wing, just not kooky out of the mainstream left wing like every other TV News broadcast, nor Hannity are the reasons that this started. This all started from a proven lie, hands up don't shoot, that was perpetuated and given credibility by the former President. We have sworn Grand Jury testimony of what really happened but the gullible left doesn't care about that the narrative is more important.

Too much football isn't reason ratings are down trying to sell too much of a product people don't want is. Replay has probably done more to ruin the product than kneeling but when you have a mediocre product it is easy to not watch when people want to use it to make a point you know is false.

The product is very mediocre this year. The Patriots have lost their front seven defensively, half their wide receivers, half their running backs and their starting right tackle. They’re the favorite to win the Super Bowl. In any other year they would be lucky to be a 10-6 wildcard team. 

A Boston Globe write called this years playoffs the March of the Tomato Cans. However, with the Patriots propensity to give up big plays one bad play at the wrong time and they’re out too.

I will say this. I do believe that the kneeling has a large part to do with the ratings. But other factors sure make It easier not to watch. Others have hit on some of them. Instant replay takes up WAY too much time. WAY too many penalties, WAY too much protection for the players (guess you can only hit from the waist to the shoulders now), WAY too many commercials. There’s a start. Before I stopped watching, these are all things I complained about. And these are all things that make it not so hard to not watch. It had nothing to do with over saturation. I would watch a game or two Sunday afternoon. If It was a good game, I’d watch Sunday night, and always Monday and Thursday night.

The NFL needs to take a serious look at the product they put out. And that includes doing things like preventing and fining players for wearing “honoring the military” cleats, yet allowing players to kneel during the National Anthem. 

The baseball angles of this thread have been sufficiently covered, so I'm going to shut it down to prevent further forays into politics.