Texas JUCO's

Roll-it-up

D1 JUCO's can have 24 full scholarships. They may break that up however they like. I know several of the coaches from the schools you have listed and one has told me this fall that they have 14 full rides and break up the other 10.

Also just because D1 allows 24 full that does not mean that is what schools actually have. Some colleges (even ones listed) play in certain conferences or regions that have stipulated that they may only have 18 full.

Your best bet is to ask these questions (or better yet - the player to ask) when you get to talk to those coaches. Each school does things a little different.

Good luck!!

Watch out for the fraud. There are several jucos out there that will bring in 90 players just for enrollment. They will tell you that all positions are open. When the fall season starts 18-24 will get playing time and the rest are strung along as junior varsity juco players or red shirt. They never had a chance or got a serious look. The rosters were set before the first workout.

They will flat out lie and deceive. They could make a lot more money running scams in the coprorate world, but there is the chance of jail time with that. Do your research, sometimes that doesnt even work. One college had a history of 25-35 players on roster. This year almost 90.
Almost all got some money except for a few walk on players.

kdm is your comments on experience or hear say?

Roll It Up,

First hand experiece exactly as stated. There are other threads on this site you can check out and many others have had this happen. Not all are crooked but some are. Ask around and do your homework. It is sad that a baseball team has as many players as a juco football team, or more than many juco marching bands.

It seems there is no code of ethics or governing body that cares about what is going on at some programs.

There is a lot of good info on the njcaa website and Region 14 specific info. also.

I agree with kdm. You may want to question the number of players that will be brought in to the program. We've gone through a similar situation. Makes it pretty tough on a kid who was told he made the cut in the fall with a class of 120 players, came back in the spring to be told he will be a redshirt, but with intentions of him being the starter his soph. year. That didn't happen either.

I am having a hard time understanding parents complaints about their kids being redshirted or cut from college programs, juco or not. While I can understand that they may feel mislead when a juco brings in 75-100 kids competing for roster spots, and they thought for some reason there would be less, the fact is, I would think, that if the player is in the top 35 or so talentwise he will be on the roster. If not he won't.

Am I missing something?

You know luv, it's a parent thing.

It seems to me that this is a simple matter of integrity. If the picture is laid out clearly, then no one should complain about numbers -- it's a competition.

iluvgbb -- if a coach misleads a kid (and his family), the kid could have made a different choice....regardless of his skill set. I would think that everyone here would support honest disclosure. I'm sure you do too. Tell a kid he will compete with 80 others for 35 spots. Don't tell him he will start if he can beat out 2 kids at his position when it's 12. Yes, simple enough.

Exactly. There are college scouts and coaches totally and outright lying to kids and their families. Some are even illegally recruiting these kids (but we won't even go there). And these are not even at the schools bringing in 80-100 kids in the fall. These are coaches who have absolutely no ethical bone in their body and one day they too will have a kid of their own who gets lied to. It won't be until that moment when they feel the pain and maybe understand what parents are complaining about when they speak about those coaches or the schools they coach for. Lying and deception will catch up to these coaches one day. What goes around comes around in due time my friends.

I'm sorry to hear of some unethical experiences. I'm talking to some schools and would like a heads up of what to expect. I have received good feedback here and I would also expect to take a man of his word. If there is some unethical coaches to avoid, feel free to PM me as I would have an interest in your experience. I would think that would be the exception rather than the rule, as most coaches are truely professional.

I would have no problem with 60 or even 90 in the fall if it was communicated, I'll ask. If it is a college my son would like to be at if he did not make the cut, then it is a gamble that he would decide. If he would not want to be there if he were cut, then I would hope he would not put himself in that position.

College Coaches do not want to bring on 100 players. They get pressure from the administration to bring that many players on so that enrollment is up. Do not be mad at the coaches, it is the administration above them that are at fault.

Some schools have 2 different practices per day and split the team up in half. Do you think a college coach wants to do that????

The coaches at these programs that cattle herd players in, try to do the best they can and truley help out the players that do not make the roster when fall is over. They truely want the best for all their players.

So again.... do not be mad at the coaches, it is the **** administration that is at fault.

PD,
Yes I support honest disclosure from coaches. One problem however is things change day to day expecially at juco's. You get kids constantly transferring, kids that couldn't or weren't playing at D1's deciding to transfer in, D1 coaches asking jucos to let some kid that they recruited play there for a year because he is going to get no time at the D1, kids that didn't like where they were drafted deciding to play juco for a year, etc. etc. etc.

These things and others along with what Dallas Spikes references contribute to the problems.

You're right. The transfer rules and the use of JUCO as a pseudo "pipeline" for some 4-year schools adds to the challenge. Things do change frequently. I see the 4 year schools bringing in more kids now too. We have been fortunate -- PS III's situation includes men of integrity.....as did the experiences of my older sons.

I am not suggesting that the JUCO guys are crooks! It would be really easy to add an "except for....." comment here but it's a risky joke in a thread containing a sensitive subject.

A couple of things come to mind here:

1) Do your homework on these schools...you should be able to find out which ones are the culprits fairly easily.

2) Talk to as many scouts and coaches and try to get an honest assessment of what level your son is at and what level he should target to continue his career.

I know we're talking JUCOS here but do some four year schools have the same motivations to have large fall rosters?

I would say 4 year schools don't have the administrations pushing for more enrollment but still deal with some of the other problems. While the transfer rule from D1 to D1 has slowed down those transfers ( I don't agree with this rule by the way) D1's still have to deal with guessing on how many kids recruited will sign, how many draft eligible juniors will leave, injuries, grades, etc, just to name a few.

There are a number of threads in the recruiting section of this website that discuss apparant overrecruiting at D1's you might want to check out.

Or follow Ken's advice. It's probably the best so far.

kdm - you have a PM

My son is getting some interest form Cisco JC. Can anyone share any experiences with them? Thank you

Does anyone have any information on the program at North Lake JC in Irving? I believe one of the coaches is Mr. Fielding.
Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by MAB:
Roll-it-up

D1 JUCO's can have 24 full scholarships. They may break that up however they like. I know several of the coaches from the schools you have listed and one has told me this fall that they have 14 full rides and break up the other 10.

Also just because D1 allows 24 full that does not mean that is what schools actually have. Some colleges (even ones listed) play in certain conferences or regions that have stipulated that they may only have 18 full.

Your best bet is to ask these questions (or better yet - the player to ask) when you get to talk to those coaches. Each school does things a little different.

Good luck!!

To be clear in your post D1 JUCO's can only have 24 guys on scholarship, if they have 24 fulls than all 24 will be on full's if they are not fully funded than they can split up scholarship money between 24 guys.

Texas D1 Juco's have the ability to have 24 scholarships to give out howevery they like.... they can split it up in halfs, or quarters, or give the whole 24 full to 24 players.

But hardly any D1 Juco's are fully funded. Which means.... they do not get enough money from the school to give out 24 scholarships. They might have 18 scholarships to give to a team instead. It just depends on how much money they adminstration has to give the baseball team. 24 is the max the andministration can give.

Hope this helps.

I cannot tell you anything about North Lake's baseball program, but my son was friends with a pitcher who attended North Lake last year. The player slept through most classes and did horribly his fall semester. He returned spring semester and did not do any better academically. I may be wrong, but to my knowledge, there was not a lot of academic accountability for the BB players there.

Sent you a PM. Just have list of questions ready to ask. We learned to ask lots of questions and there will still be ones you don't remember to ask.

quote:

Originally posted by Aloysius:
My son is getting some interest form Cisco JC. Can anyone share any experiences with them? Thank you

Roll it up. From our experience, make sure your son connects with the coaches. This is big and all coaches have different styles. The programs you mentioned are all top quality. They all want to win but get there by different ways. It is baseball, but I am talking about recruiting. They will sell your son big on his visit but it is different once they hit the field.

as far as where they send players, go on the JUCO website and look under former players. This will give you an idea. I wish I had done more due diligence on a number of fronts.

quote:

Originally posted by Roll-it-up:
I searched around a while here and with the understanding that things change from year to year, I thought I would re-visit these questions on DIV I JUCO's.

What do they have available to offer to recruits? Do most players in the fall program have some scholarship money or are they walk-on?

How can I tell what kind of pipelines they have to 4 yr programs?

I have heard good things mentioned about Blinn, San Jac, Texarkana, Howard, upcoming Cisco, Narvarro and others....

opinions?

How can one learn what credits can transfer for various degrees?

Goodseats; Sent u a PM

quote:

Originally posted by goodseats:
Sent you a PM. Just have list of questions ready to ask. We learned to ask lots of questions and there will still be ones you don't remember to ask.

quote:

Originally posted by Aloysius:
My son is getting some interest form Cisco JC. Can anyone share any experiences with them? Thank you

goodseats - you have a PM

To all - great advice!

yes

quote:

Originally posted by Roll-it-up:
goodseats - you have a PM

To all - great advice!

Dallas Spikes,
I do not know of any jucos that fund more than 12 scholarships, do you? Howard won it all last year with only 12 funded. I wonder if admin. will fund more after a championship, or is it a conference agreement.

after making alot of visits the past two weeks .. all the juco's say 12 total ... now to figure out which one was the right fit for a pitcher

quote:

Originally posted by Uncle Bubba:
Dallas Spikes,
I do not know of any jucos that fund more than 12 scholarships, do you? Howard won it all last year with only 12 funded. I wonder if admin. will fund more after a championship, or is it a conference agreement.

Uncle Bubba - Howard College funded 24 scholarships last year. My son was one of them.

There are Junior Colleges in Texas that fund 24 full scholarships. The NJCAA will only allow a member college to award 24 total scholarships total (full or partial). Junior Colleges should only have 24 players on some type of scholarship. But it's not a secret that some colleges exceed the 24 scholarship limit.

Shuttle, I will ask JBob again when I see him. Maybe I misunderstood him.

I coached JuCo ball in Dallas for half of this decade. The rules are relatively lax and there are probably a few unscrupulous coaches, but most try hard in challenging circumstances and do reasonbly well, with obviously a huge range in coaching ability.

Let me try to add a couple useful observations.

24 is the max scholarships at JuCo, and no more than 24 players can be on athletic aid, so if you're looking at a school that's offering a small partial scholarship and you're concerned that they're brining in 50+ players to meet their administration's quota, ask if yours is athletic aid for baseball to be filed with the NJCAA.

Coaches David White and Shawn Hughes at Cisco are in a challenging position being in the middle of nowhere and needing to bring in a lot of student-athletes to help the school survive. To my knowledge they are honest, hard-working, and talented coaches. They've won a lot more than they "should've" and helped many players on to DI scholarships.

North Lake College is in a premier location in Irving. They don't have scholarships, but neither does the competition in their league. Beautiful campus and field. Inexpensive schooling. And I'm just stating the facts here: they don't win and they don't have many players transfer to 4-year schools each year. That's been the same since I showed up in their league in 2001-2.

Here are great questions to ask the JuCO coaches:
How much will everything cost me?
Where will my son live?
What academic support is provided, and how will you monitor your players' academic progress?
What are you promising us in terms of a chance, a spot, and playing time? Clear communication has obvious benefits.
How many players will you have at my son's position next year?
What is it going to take for you to win your conference next year?
How do you help promote student-athletes moving on after two years here?
Is there a list of student-athletes who've played for you who've gone on to 4-year universities that I can see?

Don't be shy about asking questions. Too many kids that are "dying" for an opportunity to play college ball jump in without looking first. That can hurt.

Try to get your son to ask all the questions. Coaches love initiative and maturity, and it's often lacking in JuCo recruits.

I understand the use of PMs on here, but if a coach is dishonest, I'd like to see him held accountable, including in this forum.

quote:

Originally posted by CoachTraub:

Try to get your son to ask all the questions. Coaches love initiative and maturity, and it's often lacking in JuCo recruits.

Parents...

Read the above quote, then read it again.

Then implement it.