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Texas Rangers Area Code Team.

collikarcollikar1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Panther Dad:
Oops, collikar --- the Tigers need to win the Regional tournament before Farmington. I can't wait to hear about the battles that occur there! Hosted by the Mustangs, I see it as the most difficult step on the way to NM.

Perhaps we should hire a reporter to cover the tournament! Smile


...or the National Guard... Big Grin
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bighit15:
Diablo stated:
quote:
And to all who know... Farmington def. ranks above AC and Aflac... Farmington is 2nd to none...


Though I agree with you personally, it is all a matter of preference and choices made by the family as to what they think is important.


And I agree with your statement as well BH. But, wouldn't you agree that if "individual" venues are more important than "team" venues, than that particular family has a skewed outlook?
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Txdad07:
quote:
And I agree with your statement as well BH. But, wouldn't you agree that if "individual" venues are more important than "team" venues, than that particular family has a skewed outlook?


Here we go again. Roll Eyes Surely you have better things to do than slant every issue back to your personal agenda?


Mission accomplished...............

Getting more folks to think about the team concept. Razz
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
When my son went to AC tryouts, it was well known that if he made the team he would not be there until after Farmington. He did not make the team, so it was not a choice for us. Had me made the team, he would have gone to farmington. I try not to judge others for their decisions, I just worry about mine. If someone would have chosen area code over the Mustangs, It would not have bothered me. I just don't care about what others do. It is a very personal thing and I don't want to tell parents they are bad people for choosing a path in raising their son. You never know all the circumstances to every choice.
Last edited by Bighit15
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by txdad06:
SOUR GRAPES SOUR GRAPES KEN HATES EATING SOUR GRAPES. I know of a coach who lost his job because his players chose Area Code over showcase. Just posting the facts sir!


I would entertain discussing this post but because it is the most ignorant thing ever posted I will refrain.

And again, it's unfortunate and convenient that usually comments like these come without a real name.
D Dtiger1,000+ posts
Can I sneak my head in here and add my 2 cents?

Through all this debating... which I'll call it debating so no one gets the wrong idea. All of you guys can agree on that you want the BEST for YOUR KID. Nobody is trying to be selfish, no one is try to chose favorites. The decision should, if it doesn't already for the most part, be made by the kid. Everyone has different methods in doing everything, but they are trying to get to the same spot. I think everyone should settle down and realize that all of ya'll are in it for the same reason... the kid. After all, I am the kid here. Big Grin

I'd also like to add that all these... "debates"... on these message boards are always so confusing.
Last edited by Dtiger
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Dtiger:
Can I sneak my head in here and add my 2 cents?

Through all this debating... which I'll call it debating so no one gets the wrong idea. All of you guys can agree on that you want the BEST for YOUR KID. Nobody is trying to be selfish, no one is try to chose favorites. The decision should, if it doesn't already for the most part, be made by the kid. Everyone has different methods in doing everything, but they are trying to get to the same spot. I think everyone should settle down and realize that all of ya'll are in it for the same reason... the kid. After all, I am the kid here. Big Grin

I'd also like to add that all these... "debates"... on these message boards are always so confusing.


Nice post Dtiger.

Wondering in regards to your post......what is the common "spot", in your opinion, that we all want to see our kids get to?

I am very interested in talking with you about this as it is through the prospective of a player.
TS Tiger Sideline10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Txdad07:
And yet another ex-coach here to tell us how to raise our kids.

Pardon me guys if I choose to raise mine any d*mn way I please.


Ok, my turn. The way I see it there are no surprises that this time of year as players are trying to get seen by their choice of potential baseball schools after High School. As one poster stated...."I get it". If you are truly interested in the player’s development then you should not cast judgment on how a player or parent chooses to get to the next level. After all the parent is the one that foots the bill. Just as they do in summer ball.

Now with that in mind, after speaking to some college coaches and the director of MLB Scouting they concur that they like a young man that is committed to his team. When a player elects to go another route other than the summer team route, it jeopardizes all others on that team because the elite players draw scouts and interest that some players may not ever get. It works both ways and I think everyone knows it. It is a selfish scenario, but then again financial relief for college is not something to be taken lightly.

So in summation of my novel on what and what not to do, I MUST SAY THAT EVERYONE INVOLVED KNOWS THE SCORE. As a very wise old school coach taught me, you do with what you have. At this level they are all good, just some are bigger, stronger and maybe, just maybe, a little more talented. And as my very astute teacher tells me on a regular basis, "They just have to figure out how to get it done"

Sorry for the ear bending, but I agree with most, it's a tired subject!
D Dtiger1,000+ posts
The "spot" for me is most likely different than for every other kid. That "spot" is unique. The "spot," or "ultimate goal," for me going to a showcase, or traveling with my team, is to learn from each experience. Each game I play I want to learn something about myself as a player. I figure that if I do that each game, I will feel that I gave it everything I had if and when my baseball carreer falls off the map. In a way, the "spot" is the next level. Not the next level like from high school to college or college to pros, but the baby step levels of each season, of each following years. I feel if a player can learn and progress in some way after each game, they reach a next level. That is my "spot."
D Dtiger1,000+ posts
Once again I feel it differs from player to player. I will cautiously use myself as an example.

While in Florida this past week I pitched in 3 games. The first game I dominated striking out seven and everything was great. I only mention this to lead to the next game.

The second game I threw I knew I had a limit of 35 pitches in order to be able to throw in 2 days (idealy). Since I was a starter I wanted to throw as deep into the game as I could without exceding my pitch limit. This meant that I didn't need strikeouts. Where in the first game on a 0-1 count I might've thrown a curve or change-up, on most of my 0-1 counts I threw 2-seem fastballs. How I got to the 0-1 is really irrellevant, with me the ground balls I get on an 0-1 count are so much greater than 0-0. This allowed me to throw 3 strong innings and not excede the limit.

The third game I appeared in was unfortunately the next day because we had a loss and coach wanted a win so he pitched me. This is where I did my main learning for the tournament. To start off the game I K-ed 3 of the first 4 batters, and didn't allow a hit through 2 2/3 innings. Unfortunately after making my previous two appearances my velocity (which is never anything much to talk about) began to drop. I began to rely on more offspeed pitches. The opposition, being smart, and knowing I had thrown began to "sit" on 0-1 offspeed pitches. After they picked up this trend, they scored 3 runs-2 earned. After they scored these runs (and not ever considering of being taken out of the game) I re-evaluated how I had thrown the game and realized I was relying on my curve and slider too heavily. I had also noticed the team was crowding the plate in order to hit the offspeed (even while hitting it, they were almost all bloopers or weak seeing eye singles... but they were hits). The next inning I through primarily fastballs to their 4, 5, and 6 hitters and finished them with ease. To counter the team crowding the plate, almost every single fastball I threw was inside. They couldn't adjust and I made them look foolish while only throwing 2 different pitches (I used my curve as a waste pitch 4 times). This was an adjustment that has allowed me to have more confidence in my fastball when I need to spot it and made me realize that after one time through the lineup, the opposing team will expect the same general idea on how I'm wanting to get them out. In future games I will change my approaches throughout the game.

This may be very simple to some and very complicated to others. Whichever it is, learning to notice adjustments from the counterpart is absolutely vitale in becoming a winner in anything you do in baseball. The best major leaguers don't rely on pure talent (because I think we can all agree they all have tons), but rely on the ability to make adjustments throughout a season, a game, even a given at bat.

Also important to note, learning something from every game does not have to be new. This experience I just described was something I was good at a while ago and had simply not needed it for a while. Learning can almost be a refamiliarization with a given area of the game. There is so much to baseball, it is impossible to write it in a book or describe it to one person. It's an on going process of learning from mistakes.
Last edited by Dtiger
V Vanlandingham100+ posts
quote:
And yet another ex-coach here to tell us how to raise our kids.

Pardon me guys if I choose to raise mine any d*mn way I please.

I do not recall making any reference in regards to raising your "****" kid. I have 3 of my own and it creates enough challenges in itself that I can't concern myself with someone elses. I thought the topic was in regards to good baseball decisions for young players. Leave the emotion out of it and answer the question.

How did they do?
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
DTiger, are you sure your only 17?

Again, I am amazed in your verbage and mature writings explaining your thoughts. I can't say enough how impressed I am. If that counts for anything. Roll Eyes

Just in your latest post, it is easy for me to see that you understand what it takes to become a better player each and every day your handed the ball. From game to game, or even pitch to pitch, there are constant adjustments necessary to perform better each and every time.

And most importantly, learning from failure, may be most important. (That may be a Yogi Berra line Big Grin) Again, that can be achieved from game to game or even from pitch to pitch.

Now, without ruffling any feathers, let's look at this from another angle. I understand and respect your ability and understanding of individual adjustments and/or improvements.

Can you offer any examples from a teams prospective? What are some of the things, as an individual, that you feel are important from a team aspect in achieving that "spot".

Do you feel that individual lessons learned are more valuable at this point in your baseball career, or do team concepts play a role in your learning curve as well.

For the board and DTiger, please don't look into this any deeper than it is. I have no agenda other than learning. Like you, even adults can learn.

I am truely interested in your honest opinions and have enjoyed dialogue with you so far.
Last edited by Ken Guthrie
D diamondgirl10+ posts
Ken Guthrie,
I have read a number of your posts over the past few months. Without quoting every one, a general theme of yours seems to be:"until you have played the game or been in a major league clubhouse your opinion about baseball is irrelevant because you are not qualified and you don't have any idea what you are talking about."

You state in a post on this thread: "And yet another parent who doesn't get it. Pardon me if we choose to voice our opinions."

One might say to you when voicing you opinion on whether we as parents get it:
"Until you have raised a son beyond a year or two, your opinion on parenting is irrelevant because you are not qualified and you have no idea what you are talking about."
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by diamondgirl:
Ken Guthrie,
I have read a number of your posts over the past few months. Without quoting every one, a general theme of yours seems to be:"until you have played the game or been in a major league clubhouse your opinion about baseball is irrelevant because you are not qualified and you don't have any idea what you are talking about."

You state in a post on this thread: "And yet another parent who doesn't get it. Pardon me if we choose to voice our opinions."

One might say to you when voicing you opinion on whether we as parents get it:
"Until you have raised a son beyond a year or two, your opinion on parenting is irrelevant because you are not qualified and you have no idea what you are talking about."


Duely noted.

You are correct when saying I have no experience in raising a child. I will always respect that and understand your point of view.

But I can say, I do have experience in getting where all the parents and players eventually want to get. And yes I did play in college and at the professional level besides being a bullpen catcher. Roll Eyes

Again though, I don't remember any of this topic referencing parenting.

Besides, I am enjoying dialogue with DTiger to let this topic beat me down.

But thank you for your opinions.
D Dtiger1,000+ posts
Ken-I'm glad you brought up the team aspect of the "spot." A team reaching that "next level" and a kid reaching that "next level" are 2 completely opposite and yet related things. That statement is confusing enough for myself, so let me try to dig myself out of the hole I've created... for myself. Confused

A player has to take it upon himself to get himself to the next level, no team, no coach, nor parent can propel a kid to develop. Work, sweat, and reflection are the main ways of accomplishing a goal. Here is how they are opposite: a kid can keep "climbing up the latter," while his team is "falling in the basement." I've personally witnessed many kids develop on a team most kids would to refer to as mediocre at best.

For a team to reach new levels I've always felt it is critical that it learn to always do the little things, the boring things. Bunting, hitting and running, communication are all fundamental skills of baseball that I see get screwed up in the MLB. I feel that the "little things" provide a rock, a base that can later be built upon. Along with physical "little things" I also think there are many "little things" teams sometimes forget to do on the mental side of baseball. This can be as simple as not showing respect to another team, or as complicated (it isn't really that complicated when sitting here discussing it... but it proves difficult sometimes) as putting a team away when you have a 5 run lead. For a team to be great, they have to smell blood in the water and take it. Too many times I've witnessed a team coming back and making a game out of a seemingly easy game that was at 4-0 or 5-0. This doesn't mean that the team coming from behind necessarily wins, but there are battles within each game. One battle is that of saving pitching. When a team is down 5-0 with 2 or 3 innings left one positive event for them can light a match, but when they are down 8-0 or greater, one positive is like throwing water on lava. Letting a team come back can seriously impede a team during a tournament. And how this is opposite from individual development: a kid can be selfish yet put on a good team. He as a player can take a step back while his teammates all improve and pick up the slack.

And now how they are related: I feel for the progression of any player and/or team it's critical that they feel the arduous labor that it takes to win. A team that "knows" how to win will beat a team that doesn't 9/10 times when it's tied going into the last inning. A kid knowing how to win will willingly step up into situations where the odds are stacked severly against him and take it on like it was a simple task. Knowing how to win as a player and team are both directly dependent on eachother. Learning this "concept" (if you can even call it that) is imperative for a team and/or player to progress.

On the question if the individual lessons learned are more important than team lessons: I think that individual lessons are more important IF IF IF IF (did I stress it enough) they are done in order to help the team. A kid that hits home runs all day but can't sacrifice a guy over in a tight game does me (as if I were a coach) no good. And once again I'd like to stress that they help eachother in a way. I say individual lessons are MORE important (not that team lessons aren't VERY important themselves) because I would hate to see a kid get discouraged if he developed but his team didn't.

Oh and Ken, you keep complimenting my being 17... only one problem: I'm 16. I will turn 17 in december this year. But once again, thank you.

If you've read this you might want to go back and read it again... or skim it... I've only edited it about 3 times now. sorry
Last edited by Dtiger
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Dtiger:
Ken-I'm glad you brought up the team aspect of the "spot." A team reaching that "next level" and a kid reaching that "next level" are 2 completely opposite and yet related things. That statement is confusing enough for myself, so let me try to dig myself out of the hole I've created... for myself. Confused

A player has to take it upon himself to get himself to the next level, no team, no coach, nor parent can propel a kid to develop. Work, sweat, and reflection are the main ways of accomplishing a goal. Here is how they are opposite: a kid can keep "climbing up the latter," while his team is "falling in the basement." I've personally witnessed many kids develop on a team most kids would to refer to as mediocre at best.

For a team to reach new levels I've always felt it is critical that it learn to always do the little things, the boring things. Bunting, hitting and running, communication are all fundamental skills of baseball that I see get screwed up in the MLB. I feel that the "little things" provide a rock, a base that can later be built upon. Along with physical "little things" I also think there are many "little things" teams sometimes forget to do on the mental side of baseball. This can be as simple as not showing respect to another team, or as complicated (it isn't really that complicated when sitting here discussing it... but it proves difficult sometimes) as putting a team away when you have a 5 run lead. For a team to be great, they have to smell blood in the water and take it. Too many times I've witnessed a team coming back and making a game out of a seemingly easy game that was at 4-0 or 5-0. This doesn't mean that the team coming from behind necessarily wins, but there are battles within each game. One battle is that of saving pitching. When a team is down 5-0 with 2 or 3 innings left one positive event for them can light a match, but when they are down 8-0 or greater, one positive is like throwing water on lava. Letting a team come back can seriously impede a team during a tournament. And how this is opposite from individual development: a kid can be selfish yet put on a good team. He as a player can take a step back while his teammates all improve and pick up the slack.

And now how they are related: I feel for the progression of any player and/or team it's critical that they feel the arduous labor that it takes to win. A team that "knows" how to win will beat a team that doesn't 9/10 times when it's tied going into the last inning. A kid knowing how to win will willingly step up into situations where the odds are stacked severly against him and take it on like it was a simple task. Knowing how to win as a player and team are both directly dependent on eachother. Learning this "concept" (if you can even call it that) is imperative for a team and/or player to progress.

On the question if the individual lessons learned are more important than team lessons: I think that individual lessons are more important IF IF IF IF (did I stress it enough) they are done in order to help the team. A kid that hits home runs all day but can't sacrifice a guy over in a tight game does me no good. And once again I'd like to stress that they help eachother in a way. I say individual lessons are MORE important (not that team lessons aren't VERY important themselves) because I would hate to see a kid get discouraged if he developed but his team didn't.

Oh and Ken, you keep complimenting my being 17... only one problem: I'm 16. I will turn 17 in december this year. But once again, thank you.

If you've read this you might want to go back and read it again... or skim it... I've only edited it about 3 times now. sorry


All I can say is............WOW.

You had me at hello. Big Grin

P.S. We need to start a thread all in itself. I will start it.
cheapseatscheapseats1,000+ posts
Dtiger - just wondering...don't the catchers call what pitch to throw (curve, 2 seam fb, 4 seam fb, fastball, etc)? I know you can always shake him off but do you decide what pitch to throw or does your catcher call the pitches? I think it is great you put so much thought in to what to throw at each point in the game but I am curious if the stategy you take sometimes differs from what the catcher has in mind? Just curious if that is ever the case and if so how you deal with it. I know you all are talking throughout the game but who makes the final call, you as the pitcher or the catcher (I know the coach is the final call but during a particular inning.)

BTW, I know you aren't big on compliments but I am enjoying your posts and like Ken, I am impressed!
Last edited by cheapseats
D Dtiger1,000+ posts
Well that is a really good question, but it is a simple answer because of who my catcher is. That is Mike Ritter. He's been my catcher since I was 13. He knows me better than any other catcher, hitter, or pitching coach in this world. Generally speaking he will suggest 1 or 2 pitches in a count (I can tell because I just know him and because of the emphasis he uses when showing the sign). He trusts me though a ton since we've been through so many big games together. If there is a scouting report on a team, we go over it together, if there is something he sees, we go over it, and visa versa. He and I could be brothers. Only thing is, he's a stocky power hitting catcher, and I'm a short skinny pitcher MIF. To answer your question directly, it's my call when push comes to shuv.

I'd like to thank all the great catchers out there and remind all pitchers to be GREAT friends with their catchers no-matter how old they are. My numbers as a pitcher in summer ball are better than HS ball because the catcher in the summer is the best. I've really learned to appreciate how much a good catcher can do for a pitcher... in terms of confidence, strikes, etc.
cheapseatscheapseats1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Dtiger:

I'd like to thank all the great catchers out there and remind all pitchers to be GREAT friends with their catchers no-matter how old they are. I've really learned to appreciate how much a good catcher can do for a pitcher... in terms of confidence, strikes, etc.


Amen, I agree. A good catcher can make a good pitcher look even better .... my son's best buddy is his high school catcher, he can diagnois an adjustment that is needed quicker than anyone (except for his pitching coach, he can make a real quick diagnosis ..... I wish he was at all our games. Smile)
Last edited by cheapseats
V Vance34100+ posts
Panther Dad, Im laughing at you! The english teacher. Is Ken not being a good student?

Here's my take on all this individual and team stuff.

I do think the team is important and I don't think any player should just quit his summer team to play in a showcase event. I also think it important that the coach work with that player so that if possible he be able to participate in both. A good coach will help promote both the team and the individual. No player should have to decide between one or the other. If a player is of that caliber then as the coach find a way to get that player to both places. The coach for the area code team does a great job at meeting the needs of the players. He doesn't pitch them to much and he will pitch them around their schedules.

Stop all this blabber about team and individual. Being in Farmington is a great achievement and SO to is going to Long Beach for the AC games. Make both work, you'll feel good about it and your son will learn from the experience of playing as well as learning from the experience of how you as the coach and parent handled the situation.

It takes great passion from most players on an individual basis to become a good player. However, it takes the team and team concepts to nurture that player and allow him to gain instincts and game awareness with the proper intangibles so that he can become the best player possible. Sometimes the intangibles of a player is enough to take him all the way to the big leagues. Ask David Eckstein.

Now, in closing, do whats best for the player and that would be for him to do both! I think it is a shame that Blake Bevean had to decide between one or the other. He should be doing both!
Panther DadPanther Dad5,000+ posts
Good post, Vance -- I don't think anyone will disagree. The funny thing about this long thread is that the AC games impact very few kids. Certainly, teams should be able to schedule around a one-day tryout for the kids that are invited (ours did). Being seen by scouts or coaches in the tryout situation is a good experience whether a kid makes the team or not.

LI Linty Ingram10+ posts
Hey Vance, Who made Blake Beavan decide? Not me!It seems that your post is directed strait towards me. The fact is, I thought that he was going to go, he had my blessing on the matter. So, if he is not going, that is all on him and his family, and I support any decision that they make. Please get better information the next time you post something towards me.
Thanks, Linty Ingram
Panther DadPanther Dad5,000+ posts
I will only speak for myself -- I interpretted Vance's comment to be directed towards the simultaneous scheduling of two important events -- not at you two as coaches -- I thought we had general agreement on the scheduling issue. If I misinterpretted his intent, then I apologize.



-PD

Oh...and...I represent myself alone in the discussions here -- NOT a team or an organization. I think I do a decent job of showing respect for all teams, their groups, coaches, and parents.
Last edited by Panther Dad
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