Texas To Adopt Pitch Counts?

We heard here that Bama will go to it next year.

It's about time!

Thankfully, the asst coach at the time son was in HS was a former AA pitcher. 

Little League was so far ahead of the game. Our league lost players because travel parents complained about "the rules" and pitch counts and walked away. Today, most of the kids who left as 11- and 12- year-olds, don't even play baseball any longer.

I contacted the Texas UIL Highschool commissioner about 2 yrs ago and he indicated that pitch count rules for high school would definitely happen.  I sent him the link to the Colorado Highschool pitch count rules to help him. 

Looks like Alabama has already adopted their rule that will take effect next year.  Unfortunately, it looks like a watered down version of the Pitch Smart recommendations.  http://www.ahsaa.com/Sports/Baseball 

This quote in the article pretty much sums up why pitch count limits are necessary:

"Once we get to the second game in district, it’s like, ‘We’re winning today. Whatever it takes, we’re winning.’"

While LL had been "talking" and "researching" the pc rules for a number of years.I think the    EMBARRESMENT of having a 12/13 yr old on national TV with a 100+ pc in an extra inning game is what made the difference.Help me out guys I am albut sure it was a southern team.Al. ? it was a real pitchers duel.

Just more reason to be so thankful for our high school coach.  Son's first start a week ago he had a 50 pitch limit.  This week he was allowed to throw 60.  5 days between starts.  He very much is watching out for his kids' arms. 

MTH posted:

Looks like Alabama has already adopted their rule that will take effect next year.  Unfortunately, it looks like a watered down version of the Pitch Smart recommendations.  http://www.ahsaa.com/Sports/Baseball 

Watered down or not its a good start. 

I like the penalty of forfeiting a game and $250 fine if exceeding the PC.  This should make both opposing coaches in a game keep each other honest. 

The problems come with counting. Too often, the official scorekeepers aren't necessarily good at this. We had this problem Saturday. After each inning, the opposing scorekeeper came over and compared pitch counts with our official scorekeeper. At the end of the sixth, their sk came over and quoted 101 pitches for their pitcher. Our sk agreed as he had the entire game. problem was, three other people were keeping books - my wife, our manger on GC, and the play-by-play guy from radio. All three had 106 pitches. We were down 10-3. He gets my kid to fly out on five pitches. By the official sk's, that allowed him to pitch to the next batter, who he got out on eight pitches. They then had to go to the bullpen which was their big weakness. We lit up the bullpen for two more runs and had the bases loaded when they got the final out. Had we gotten to the pen one batter earlier, who knows? My suspicion was that our official sk, who wasn't used to keeping pitch counts, simply missed a few and then just agreed with the oppositions sk. By the way, we were the home team, so our sk's count would have had priority.

roothog66 posted:

The problems come with counting. Too often, the official scorekeepers aren't necessarily good at this. …

That isn’t a problem with pitch counts as a pitching limitation, it’s a problem with the coach making sure he has someone counting pitches who can do it accurately.

The easiest way to mitigate that problem is to have both team’s scorers sit together. Unfortunately, not many HS scorers will give up sitting with their friends so they can shoot the breeze during the game. If I had my way, the official scorers should be considered officials just like umpires. That way they could be tested, assigned, and paid just like umpires.

the problem i have seen,  we moved to travel ball from Little league,  and thankfully play for a good team.   in little league the coaches tended to take the pitch count limits and took them to the limit.  he has 85 pitches today and thats what he's throwing.  and then they wait to 4 days and do it again.   mainly because most little league teams have 2 ,  maybe 3 good pitchers,  and only 1 of them is elite.    In travel  ball   you have it going that day throw 60-80 pitches, maybe you get a closer  maybe not.   and likely you skip a weekend and pitch again in 2 wks  with proper training and bullpens in between.    if you dont have it,  bring up man 2 or 3 or 4.       Its the travel teams where you dont have enough pitching that are suspect,  if you are the man,  get out of that situation and quick.  

We know all the kids in little league still very well and all I hear about from them is this kid is hurt,  that kids elbow out 4 wks,   this kids growth plate etc.   In travel ball we are not seeing nearly as many injuries.  

gunner34 posted:

the problem i have seen,  we moved to travel ball from Little league,  and thankfully play for a good team.   in little league the coaches tended to take the pitch count limits and took them to the limit.  he has 85 pitches today and thats what he's throwing.  and then they wait to 4 days and do it again.   mainly because most little league teams have 2 ,  maybe 3 good pitchers,  and only 1 of them is elite.    In travel  ball   you have it going that day throw 60-80 pitches, maybe you get a closer  maybe not.   and likely you skip a weekend and pitch again in 2 wks  with proper training and bullpens in between.    if you dont have it,  bring up man 2 or 3 or 4.       Its the travel teams where you dont have enough pitching that are suspect,  if you are the man,  get out of that situation and quick.  

That may well be the way your little league and travel teams operate, but I doubt it’s the way they all operate. The only way to find out is to look at a team or league’s records for all pitching outings, but that’s very difficult to do.

Texas instituting pitch limits (and so far it is just a proposal) is a very good thing.  Not perfect, but very good.

At the least, it brings more awareness to arm health/care and protects some kids from outlandishly high pitch counts.  And that is a very good thing.

I had a discussion with my son before the game he pitched yesterday.  We agreed on a set PC where he would pull himself out of the game.  Normally I've told him that I would meet him at the fence and give him a sign to let him know and to tell the coach "that his shoulder was getting tight or his arm was hurting"  In yesterday's game my son pulled himself out after 92 PC in 6 innings.   He was struggling in the 6th inning and probably would have racked up another 20-25 pitches in the last inning. 

A little over a week ago the a-hole coach had my son throw 142 pitches in a complete 7 inning game.   I blame myself for not being diligent and having my son pull himself out.  Never again.  

So after yesterdays game my son told my wife that the coach ask him (after my son told the coach his arm was "sore" after 6 innings) if he was really hurting or was someone in the stands counting pitches and informing him to pull himself out (LOL, guilty as charged).   So this sadistic coach has no problem throwing a kid until his arm falls off.   I'm at the point now that I would rather my son not ever pitch for this coach and get his pitching in the summer.  

This is the reason why pitch count rules need to be in place for every state.  

Well, sounds like it's time to educate your son. Have him do some research on pitching. See the research from Dr Andrews, ASMI, as well as structure of elbow & shoulder...what TJ encompasses...labrum tears, etc...When your son is armed with knowledge, then he should be able to make a wise decision...then he can present it to the coach...

Son learned that if he's taking 15+ pitches for 2 consecutive innings, &/or more than 4-5 batters per inning, he was done! It's hard, but he is only one of 9 on the field. Learn to trust his fielders to back him up if he anticipates a jam. Time, too, for him (and catcher) to learn about the competition...their AB's, etc...and make adjustments in his pitch type. Become the "student of the game"! Become a pitcher instead of a "thrower"! Is coach calling the pitches? Then, your son needs to spend some time strategizing with the coach! BUT, you stay out of it!

It's HIS arm...Time he learn how to take care of it! It's HIS game...time he learn how to master it! Remember, there's only so many bullets in the holster. 

baseballmom posted:

Well, sounds like it's time to educate your son. Have him do some research on pitching. See the research from Dr Andrews, ASMI, as well as structure of elbow & shoulder...what TJ encompasses...labrum tears, etc...When your son is armed with knowledge, then he should be able to make a wise decision...then he can present it to the coach...

Son learned that if he's taking 15+ pitches for 2 consecutive innings, &/or more than 4-5 batters per inning, he was done! It's hard, but he is only one of 9 on the field. Learn to trust his fielders to back him up if he anticipates a jam. Time, too, for him (and catcher) to learn about the competition...their AB's, etc...and make adjustments in his pitch type. Become the "student of the game"! Become a pitcher instead of a "thrower"! Is coach calling the pitches? Then, your son needs to spend some time strategizing with the coach! BUT, you stay out of it!

It's HIS arm...Time he learn how to take care of it! It's HIS game...time he learn how to master it! Remember, there's only so many bullets in the holster. 

I've already been there and done that as far as the research.  I even met with the coach before the season started and presented him information from ASMI but the coach shrugged it off.  If the coach can't develop more pitchers or at least have another pitcher warming up between innings that his problem.  

And no I'm not going to stay out of it.  When my son is pitching the last thing he needs to worry about is pitch count.  He needs to focus on the game.  If the a-hole coach won't look after my son then I will.  Personally if my son never pitches another inning in high school that's fine with me.  He is the primary catcher and is probably the best catcher by far in our district.   If you seen Bryce Harper throw a runner out from his knees during college my son can do the same thing as a junior. 

When my son turns 18 and he is legally not my responsibility then he can make his own decisions if he pitches in college.  The fact that he has to stand up to the high school baseball coach is sad.   He had to make a stand in football last year when 3 of his teammates thought it wise to rob one of their other teammates house and the coach was going to bring those 3 punks back on the team.  My son, as the starting QB, told the coach that if those 3 punks were allowed to play he was going to quit.  That took courage but he shouldn't have needed to make that stand. 

I've corresponded with a few other dads on this list whose sons arms were abused by their high school baseball coach.  If we, as parents don't support our sons, then who will? 

  So you let him go 145 pitches? 

He did the right thing by taking himself out at 92. So, then problem solved! If son continues with learning his own limitations, for his own arm health, then he's growing in the right direction...

Which district/ISD? Dallas area? 

Another article about Texas Pitch Count Rule:

http://tinyurl.com/jz24pfa