the basics

It is not you--players today are not schooled in what I call the "basics".

Many do not understand how to truly play the game

That is a broad statement. How a team approaches the game, would depend on the team and the way their Coach teaches the game.

You guys are going to kill-me on this, but I believe that pro-ball and the indifference the coaches make at the younger levels, little league in particular, contribute to the lack of field knowledge and skill. Bold statement? Maybe!!!

The younger level coaches inpart, focus on their own child. Then you get to high school, and if you don't play for a good travel ball program where there is some expertise in coaching, those fundamentals aren't taught because of time contraints, budgets/personnel, and state rules. If you do play travel ball, your child can get criticized for that, which creates a whole new set of issues with the school coach.

Throw in the fact that many kids "swing for the fences" because of the glory in hitting the homerun, not to mention the publicity from local publications, and maybe the media. You have private lesson instructors that teach this, but I think that these kids shouldn't be taught the what I refer to as the "lower quadrant/below center" contact on the baseball (upppercut) swing until they have at least become proficient in good, solid, up-the-middle contact.

Kids develop at different ages, we all know this, and unfortunately there are not a lot of good coaches out there that are willing to spend the extra time in developing the slightly below or average player in getting to be better, overall. Those kids probably, in many cases, have more passion or desire to succeed than the proported 'stud' players. These kids can contribute if given the time, for their high school or travel ball programs. BUT, winning seems to be the motivating factor and I can understand that because I like to win as well. I really believe that you can win with a team composed of multi-talented, intelligent, selfless, not of great stature, but fundamentally sound players. They might not be considered studs, but if given "the basics", they definitely could be winners. JMHO

I think it depends on where your child plays and who is doing the coaching. This applies to ll, travel hs or college. It also fall on the players lap as well if he or she is willing to learn, or take the time to learn the different aspects of the game. This can take place at game time practice time or even watching a game.

lineshot....

I disagree! It falls in the coaches lap and not in the players. Most people, young or old have attained what I refer to as some sort of "comfort level" in what ever they do. Kids, including teenagers, don't know how or don't want to have their comfort level expanded. It's up to every coach, and parents as well, to help instruct, teach, motivate, push, call it what you will, to get them to surpass their current levels of proficiency. This builds confidence and obviously increases their skill level.

The kids might want to get better in various aspects of the game, but most don't know how to go about finding out how to. We, as adult parents/instructors should offer a way of finding a solution for improving each players basic skill level and knowledge of the game. We may take this for granted, but I think may people don't know how to do this.

I remember from little league, one parent took it upon himself to show the kids the proper way to work cut-off plays from the outfield positions to any base which included home plate. I've seen kids in high school and even some elite travel players not know what to do!!! Sad, but true!

Boomer, I agree 100% with your 1st post. I disagree with the second only in that the best players I've coached also were students of the game and took what was being coached to heart. They sought knowledge. Naturally, then the problem is the knowledge base. If you don't have something to draw upon, the player is hindered in their development. That is with regards to either summer or school coaching.

Boomer, I agree that it falls mostly on the coaches lap, when I stated that it also fell in the players lap I feel that it is part of their reponsibility to have the desire to learn and do the work. As far as high school it depend where you go, but I told my players you best have the fundamentals in place prior to enetreing because some hs do not do much teaching at all. On the other hand I have watched some hs run great practices with the emphasis on fundamentals and learning many aspects of the game ( palatine hs comes to mind). At that same practice not every player wanted to learn but the opportunity was there.

CoachB25.....

I should have maybe clarified my statement by referring to the younger aged players first. Up here at many schools, and also at our school, many travel programs have been criticized for over-using pitchers or players when weekend travel, or summer travel teams play. We all know that high school ball comes first, but many school coaches have laid blame on travel ball for problems with high school game results. I won't elaborate at this time.

If it wasn't for travel ball, most of our success in recent years would not exist. I truly believe that if it wasn't for travel ball, and you know about the teams and clubs I'm referring to, many schools up here would not be competitive. Sorry to all those that disagree, but it flat-out true!!!!

I'm not criticizing our schools, they have limited staff, space, time and money. Travel ball gives these players the opportunity to play at the higher level and give benefit to the school programs. YES, give benefit!!!! Again, it's about staff, space, time and money.

My son wanted to play high school baseball, not every one can. He had to find ways to improve his skills, diversifiy his given talents in order to be of some value to his school team. Some players didn't have to do that, they had other talents, gifts. I firmly believe that if it wasn't for his desire to play, and by getting great instruction from travel coaches and private lessons, even with his god given talent, things might be different. Basics....played an important part of his success.....and will in college when he plays there. JMHO

lineshot.....

Thanks!!!

I agree with you about Palatine.....we played them last May, and we won 4-3 in 8 innings!!! A very fundamentally good team.

Boomer agreed! I'm not into the blame game. I know many are. With regards to pitchers being worn out, arm trouble... My major fear is that I'd have a kid with arm trouble. We lose games each year because we have a very strict pitch count. We keep this through the first couple of weeks and work closely with our trainer on extending it. I'd rather lose and sleep at night than to win and ruin a kid's career or life. We have such a great relationship with our summer programs that we don't have any troubles there. You are right in that we would not be successful without them. THAT IS A PLAIN AS I CAN SAY THAT. Neither HS nor summer coaches can take all of the credit or blame. It is a joint effort.

I beleive the responibilty for learning the basics falls on both coach, player and parent.In todays world I beleive some parents/coaches and players are too concerned with whether they play for a winning teams/programs(travel) rather than whether they are going to be taught the nuances/basics of the game.I have been involved with the Crystal Lake Travelers organization for the past 6 years. Every winter we take the first 4 weeks of winter training and break the game down to it's basics for all age groups 12-15. After we have reinforced these basics we move on to help the players advance their games to the next level. I beleive without these these basics it is difficult for a player to advance their game. Too mnay times a players atheletic ability gets in the way of learning the basics because they can have success. Unfortunately it carries them only so far and the game gets too difficult to play without knowing some fo these basics.

I guess what I am trying to say here is that you need a parent finding the right program for their child at the younger age. A coach willing to look past the winning at all cost mentality and coach the basics and a player willing to learn the basics which for young players can be meticulous and boring with all the repitions it takes to master this game.


I have always beleived baseball takes a lifetime to learn and by the time you figure it out your too old to play.

tigercub.....

Agree totally!!! You speak from experience with regard to a great travel program.

We played against a team of yours three years ago in St.Louis when my son was fouteen. Well oiled machine!!!!

Boomer, Your HS has been successful for many years and turned out many good players who played travel ball and some who didn't play travel ball. Don't try and make blanket statements about what HS programs are working on, when you know as well as I do that you only have firsthand knowledge on what goes on at your school. If you are not happy with what goes on there, then state that, but don't try and make every program fit your experience. What facilities are you talking about that these kids have access to that the HS kids don't?

It does fall upon the players, the coaches and the parents to learn the basics. Kids are all different in their ability to learn, some coaches are better than others at teaching and some parents are their kids' biggest ally and some are the reason they don't learn. I've had the parent of a 10 year old tell me that I should be fired for having his kid bunt. "Everyone knows he will never be bunting" He was a big kid then, now he is a HS Jr. 5'10" 155. Not all schools are created equally. Our school has a good program ...but we have one coach for each Freshman Team, one and a half for the Sophmore Team and three for the Varsity. We played Oak Park and they had 3 coaches in uniform on the Soph. level last year....don't know if it is always that way. I'm sure many schools have fewer coaches than we do, and some only one Freshman Team. The point is that it's easier to spend more time teaching when you have a big staff. I'd rather have basic uniforms and a serviceable field and give me another coach or two with the balance. Let's also keep in mind that HS Coaches spend relatively little time teaching. Not a lot of time have try-outs, get ready and start playing games. How many times do we get outside before our first games around here?

On balance, the kid who has been taught by dad (their one constant over the years) to be unselfish and to listen to your coaches is going to have a better understanding of the game. As a coach, the number of times I had parents (usually who had no knowledge) tell their kids to ignore what we were telling them to do were far too many. Kids being told to take strikes on their first two bunt attempts so they can swing......kids who were told not to go on contact from 3rd because they didn't want their kid to be out....kids who were rewarded for 1 hit days with 3 k's as long as the hit was for extra bases.....Coaching is important because if they don't teach it, it ain't gonna happen, but I rate parents at the top because they need to make their kid understand the unselfish nature of the game.

quote:

Originally posted by FastballDad:
Let's also keep in mind that HS Coaches spend relatively little time teaching. Not a lot of time have try-outs, get ready and start playing games. How many times do we get outside before our first games around here?

Yes, the numbers on staff and the time is a major hinderance. That is just an excuse in my opinion. We are just an average program. We do teach the game. We do so by fist of all having scripted practices that get us ready for the season. These start with the most basic fundamentals then evolve. We do so at every level. Next, we have resolved that we go out. last year, we were in 8 days. Sure we are further south but it is still very cold. We hit in the gym and do pitching in the gym. We rotatate everyone out. Its my job to teach the game. Why do we throw what we throw when we throw it? What is our approach to hitting and why? What is our philosophy regarding bunt coverages? I could go on and on. It is painstaking doing this in a gym but at times we do. Regardless, a coach who is not a teacher of the game is merely a supervisor. JMHO!

We have been very fortuate to have ahd great instruction from an early age. Our AAA rep team used college coaches to drill the guys on proper fielding and hitting. The one area they lacked was pitching expertise so they sent the pitchers and catchers to a great camp in the winter put on by the head pitching scout of the Jays now with the Twins. By the time the guys were 11-12 they had the basics and practiced every year on their skills. You should not have to think about how to settup or what your assignments are when a ball is put into play. Good coaches if they don't know the skill they find someone who does and they learn while the kids do. There are great books on every aspect of the game.
The Elite teams my son has played for actually had lectures for several hours once a week to discuss fundamentals and theories.
One wonderful elderly coach used to sit under a tree and lecture to the pitchers and catchers about why you do this and when to do that. I listened and was thrillede with the knowledge he imparted to these eager young players.
I am very pleased with the Charleston Southern coaches who I can see have tweaked my son's mechanics. At his bull pen last night I could see he was finishing way out front and his lift leg was coming straight down and sliding straight out which is something he has not been doing.
All the great coaches in the past and present have contributed to where he is today. The basics are everything and you should not have to think about what you are doing just be ready to do it.

For the hs coaches. Is there any ihsa rules against using volunteers to help with the practices? There are many people that would volunteer their time to help a program develop by running some of the drills, with a requirement to give limited advice this allowing the fresh, soph, or varsity coach more time to go through the practice working with the kids. It seems that many high school practices have the kids working with each other, no advice to improve and sometimes ruining a good swing or fielding technigue pitching mechanic ect. I always thought you could get much more done this way as opposed to some of the scrimmages I have seen in the past. With 3 or 4 people helping you could run 3 or 4 bullpens, infielders working fundamentals and hitting stations working player specific drills. I know they try to do this sometime but when you have kids coaching kids it doesn't always get done. JMO

Lineshot....I don't think so except you have to get certified. I think it is called ACEP. I don't think a lot of schools would allow it though.

Yea fball, I knew about the certification and yes I didn't think many schools would allow it. It is just something I think about everytime I see 30 kids and 1 or 2 coaches. I don't envy the coaches or the kids in that situation, too hard to get anything done.

ballfan....

Hey...coach....why the slam???? I made no mention of my school, your school or any school in particular!!!!! Why so defensive???? What I said IS true, in a number of cases in the Chicago area.

My years of experience in watching, listening, have only re-enforced my opinion that like politicians, people who are defensive, are either guilty of something, or they have something to hide. If your defending something, then I understand! If your defending your comrades, I understand that also. What I don't understand is "what" you are trying to have me say!!!!! Can you please enlighten me????

Boomer, Not intended to slam you. Sorry if it came across that way. I just took issue with your statement about kids who don't play travel ball don't get the level of expertise and are not taught fundamentals. I will try and clarify my point. I have 25 kids to fill 9 starting spots and 5-7 pitcher roles. I do not have the ability to pick up players that I need to be successful. Now, lets assume that for this given year I have 2 players that are "elite" players. If we want to be successful, we as a staff better coach our butts off and get those players prepared for the season. We don't prepare them for a season by taking BP all practice, we coach, stressing fundamentals, game situations. Travel ball is a great way to enhance your skill and a great experience for the kids. However, most of my team is made up of talented hard working kids that may not get a chance to play for an elite travel team. Anyways, Boomer I hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday season. No slam intended on the previous post.

ballfan....

Statement clarified, thanks!! Sorry, but I've seen some real "winneres" out there, and they do a disservice to the the kids! Sorry to be so blunt, but of those coaches players, in most cases, they have less than four years to develop them into the caliber of athlete that wants to play at the next level. We all know that the percetages are working against them in most cases. If you really think about it, how many really good D1 type players are out there from our area alone? What happens to them once they get into their sophomore year at college? If their lucky, they're still on the team. Yes, I said team and didn't say anything about playing either.

Not all high school players have the good fortune to have the proper training, and I didn't say anything about our guys, or yours. We know how you instruct, we see it in the results. We also know that as I mentioned before in my previous post, many coaches don't or can't dedicate all the time necessary to improve their teams. Many teach classes, or have some sort of academic activity that may prevent them from spending the proper time. This is why basic fundamentals are important and that the 'routine' practice, if there is such a thing, is so important.

I know some coaches personally, that dispise private lesson instructors, or travel ball. You and I both know about the conflict with travel team-high school pitching scenarios during the summer season. Brutal! I understand how you coaches feel. Unfortunately, the kids can't have it both ways, and I really think some parents really push to hard when it comes to making the right decision. I know, I know, I'm going to get whacked over the head on that last comment, but it's true. However, I still believe that all of those 'extra' instruction and innings played do help make a better fundamental player.

Your perspective is always appreciated, I think you know that. I look forward to seeing you in the spring, if not sooner. By the way, how does your pitching look for next season? Never mind, you wouldn't tell me anyway!!!!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family!!!!

Boomer,

Your prolific today!

Boomer, It is no secret that we lost three pitchers to graduation. by the way, the three of them had really impressive workouts this fall. berger(ISU), dennehy(chandler-gilbert) and froelich (coastal). They work very hard and I wish them the best. With that being said, we have some quality arms that have not had a lot of varsity innings. These guys had success at the soph level and one didn't pitch much his junior year because of some arm trouble. I think it is just a matter of getting them all some innings early before the conference season starts. I sure like the work and attitude they showed this summer. I am really looking forward to the challenge that the conference will present this year. This is the type of year where kids get to see what they are made of and what character they have.

Corky9999.....

Thanks, but I wasn't really trying to do that. I sometimes feel that I haven't gotten my point across in the proper way, and it might get misconstrued as being negative, or in fact, something else.

To me, baseball is a simple game with complicated rules!

Now that was prolific!

P.S.

Next week, Palmers, what do you say we grab of few 'cool ones' and prepare for the spring season?????? Dust-off the scorebook, oil-up the hinges on the folding chair, whoops....it's still winter, I'd better hold-off on those two things.

ballfan....

Amen, on that!!!

I love Bergy! Great attitude. In my opinion he has that "edge"! Tim is sort of the same way. Didn't get to know Froelich. Must feel good for you that two of your best pitchers last year are D1 guys. How lucky are they?

IMHO, There is no one that I have met or witnessed in over 30 years of coaching various levels of the game, each the basics as well as Rob Rooney of the D.G. Longshots. Great teacher of lost baseball skills.