The Changeup.

Don't use it with less than two out and a runner on first or 2nd to a left-handed hitter, they could pull it to RF to advance the runner(s) to 3rd.
Keep it low, and usually outside. One occasion when you could use it inside is when you throw one outside, and they might think you might come inside with something hard and in, so could throw one inside and they'll think its a hard inside fastball so they'll turn on it and be way ahead.
Most accounts are used when you're behind in the count on a fastball account (2-0, 3-1). Or whenever you want to setup for a fastball inside, you could waste one away on the outside. All I can think of right now.

I like to see a change up on almost any count - assuming the pitcher can throw it for a strike. Against a 3 or 4 hitter it can be a great opening pitch - down and away, eager hitter will be way out in front.

It is also a great finishing pitch - 0-2, 1-2, 2-2 and even 3-2 if you have good confidence in it.

When I don't like to see it is to a weak hitter who can't handle your fastball. If they are overmatched, then don't give them something they can handle. I also don't generally like to see it back to back unless you can break it both ways (in or out.)

Royhobbs....I am with you. I could not hit the back stop with the circle change. So, I went with the fork or splitter. Anyway, I teach them to use whatever gip that they can control because we generally throw the change-up when behind in the count. If they do not have a grip that will work for them, they usually find that putting the ball back in the hand and throwing it with three fingers instead of two the easiest to control. I saw someone in the world series using it last night. If the grip does not take enough speed off, we can do some other things like leave the back side.

I just can't go with Mr.3000 on this one.

If a pitcher has decent control of his c/u, it can be used any time.

I taught both the modified circle change & the three finger change. Had pitchers try both for a while. Eventually they would settle in on the one that worked best for them in terms of control and movement.

My son threw both for several years, but eventually dropped the three finger because he gets more movement from his modified circle.

08Dad has a point. If you are up against really weak competition & the batter isn't anywhere close to catching up to your fastball, then don't give him the c/u. But that situation is pretty rare for most pitchers by the time they hit HS.

The grip will always take off enough speed if the grip is done right. And that does not mean pushing the ball back in the palm. The mechanics should never change. Maximum deception is achieved when nothing changes but the grip. A telegraphed c/u is liable to cause pitcher neck whiplash.

The c/u should not be used in a predictable pattern, for obvious reasons.

I will agree that arm action and arm speed do not change, but I promise you that a hitter can not pick up whether you leave the backside.

Also agree that the higher the level of baseball the more effective the change will be.

Sorry, but I can't accept that promise. Dragging the backside can telegraph.

But more importantly, it just isn't necessary. Changing the grip alone will take 10-12 mph off the fastball speed. That is all that is necessary for an effective c/u. Why add another set of mechanics, more variables? The more variables added, the more chances for something to get out of adjustment.

I have to agree - dragging the backside does have the potential of telegraphing the pitch - and of creating control problems - as you drag, you tend to be late getting the upper body around - and therefore end up in a catchup mode. What I have seen is that pitchers who are late getting squared up tend to leave the pitch up- the last place you want a change up.

Grip alone can take enough speed off - fiddling with the grip and leaving the motion alone has worked much better for me.

I'm with 08 and Tex, especially if the pitcher is not a real hard thrower - you gotta be able to throw it for strikes at any time. Junior has a pretty good circle that drops and moves away, that he throws whenever. Get's whole lotta K [well, a lot of HIS Ks] with it and lots on grounders to the opposite side. Occasionally he start pitching backward [changes and sliders to start the count, come with #1 when ahead in the count - usually works the other way though]. Going with 08's theme, it seems to be more effective, the better the hitter.
e.g. pitched the semi-final game in the Legion p/offs when he was 16. #4 for the other guys was the righty DH for a local D1 - he hit 4 weak grounders to 1B!! It was a a riot - they played on the same summer team this year and he actually kidded Jr about it - pretty good sport.

A real good change can make a good hitter look real bad - you want to be able to enact that look on any count.

I'll follow a changeup with another change up out of the zone then back with a FB inside.

I have been told it is effective right down the gut, although I have never liked the idea of throwing the change in the middle or upper strike zone. I had to appologize to my team for calling a high CU, ONE TIME.

I'm reading alot about movement on a CU. It does not have to have movement, it needs to look like a fastball coming in. To accomplish this we have our pitchers throw CU while long tossing.

Those high c/u's can sure take a long time to reach the plate when you're coaching.

Yet my son will occasionally throw a high c/u. I have seen some mighty whiff's come from that, as the batter thinks he is getting high heat for Christmas and swings for the fence.

And sometimes he will throw it such that the batter thinks it will be a fb above the top of the zone, but it drops into the zone at the last second for a called strike. Risky? Yep. But any pitcher who doesn't want to take a risk shouldn't take the mound. And sometimes that fb aimed low & away misses over the middle.

Coach L is correct that the c/u doesn't have to have movement. But late movement makes any pitch more effective.

Agree with the movement aspect, but in Junior's case, he feels that when it ain't movin', it ain't workin'!!

When he throws a high CU, it usually ends with high fives - on the other team!!! - he'd much rather live low and away. His motto is pretty much - Anytime, Baby! I've seen him throw one 3-0 when he thought the guy had a green light. Gotta have no fear

quote:

Originally posted by windmill:
Gotta have no fear

Much wisdom in that statement.

I love some of this stuff simply because it shows that there isn't any two ways (LOL) to do anything. What we have had success with:

• Throwing the Change up in any fastball count. We especially like 2-0. We've had this discussion before on this site and we have discussed the possibility of going 3-0. I don't practice that way. We expect our pitchers to throw it at anytime it is called in the location it is called.
• We drag the backfoot but drag on the toe of the back foot. We've had a lot of success doing so. I understand the other arguments. That's how we coach it.
• We like to throw it in. Nothing better than to see that big fly way foul. We have a phrase we use when hitters do it.
• When we are successful on the Changeup in and the long foul, we like the fastball up and in. Again, could go 3-1 here but most times, we get a popup because the hitting is trying to P all over this one as well.
• We throw the circle change and get a lot of movement with it. The key here is to "throw your wrist to the ground." That's how we teach it. This allows the ball to rotate off of the three fingers and get a desired rotation.
• We have decided to never let anyone below 6 in the lineup ever beat us with a change. Naturally, that is generalized for the average teams in our area. Of course, we have a couple of teams where we are going to have to use it throughout the lineup.
• We believe that the Changeup is the 1st pitch we work on after the fastball at our lower levels. Any and all breaking pitches can wait.
• We we have been in a situation where we have considered walking a hitter intentionally, we have sometimes decided to get behind 2-0 and give the changeup one chance to be successful. We can always walk out and put the hitter on base. In other words, we make a decision to let the hitter's aggressiveness get themselves out.
• We have decided that we will adjust our infield before a change is called. We "shift" knowing the count and our pregame scouting report. Then, if we decide to not throw the change, the infielders can adjust back from a signal the catcher gives apart from the other signals.
• We have one "safety" signal that the catcher gives to either the 3rd or 1st baseman. It is so obvious that it has never been caught that I know of.

Well, that's how we do it. I know many won't agree. To each their own. Everything here is JMHO!

we'll throw the changeup on any count - and 2 in a row. we throw the circle change and turn it over with the guys who are ready for it. we do nothing to change our motion - no dragging,etc. not needed. we will just throw it "box"(gut) and let the movement take care of it. we teach our change during long toss. we sell it to our kids as the greatest pitch in high school baseball. we also emphasis it in our youth programs.
steve
http://www.leaguelineup.com/raiderbaseball

Coach B25 writes:

quote:

We believe that the Changeup is the 1st pitch we work on after the fastball at our lower levels. Any and all breaking pitches can wait.

I could not agree more with this statement - my son averaged more than a K an inning in freshman ball last year with nothing but a fastball and changeup.

anytime any place and any count as long as you can throw it for a strike. or hit your spot. we have had a lot of success with the "fosh" something similar to a fork ball or splitter. without the pressure to the elobw. some who cannot get the circle change this is a good pitch. or for a senior who now has to pitch for and don't have the year or so it takes to get the circle down

Explain the "Fosh" if you would please. Grip? release? How you teach it? Etc....

Good stuff,
A kid i coached who is at Rice throws the Fosh..Kind of a Vulcan grip if i remember..

it is very similar to the fork ball, but you don't jam it into the fingers. it is held loosly and the thumb is on the side, not underneath the ball. you throw it just like a fastball. usually has a good change of pace and pretty good tumble. you can experiment with hand angle to get different run.

it may not be the best change up, but it is one that most can throw with out alot of work. i especially show this one to a senior that all of a sudden has to pitch for us and really don;t have the time to get the "feel" for the circle, or for those that can't get the circle.

If you take a fastball grip, spread the fingers in a "V" as far as is comfortable, you will have an intermediate c/u that is 5-7 mph off the fastball.

This is not a forkball or splitter. The fingers are not spread to the point of creating extra stress in the tendons.

Angled in on the hands, it can be good for a foul ball almost every time.

texan i believe we are talking about the same pitch. some of my guys like to put their fingers underneath the seams so they get more tumble. and you are right it don't put extra stress on the elbow if you don't jam the ball into the fingers. i found that the thumb on the side instead of underneath the ball helps

In our program our pitchers can't be successful if they cannot "dominate" the changeup. In my opinion, the changeup is the 2nd best pitch in baseball(behind Strike 1). It is the best compliment to the fastball, if thrown properly is the hardest pitch to pick up out of the hand, and can throw a hitters timing way off.

We teach several grips, allowing our guys to experiment and to figure out what works best for them(the circle, pitchfork, and the one that Texan described in a previous post). I think the one thing that we have our pitchers do that has helped the most is what we call "Changeup Day." Meaning one day out of the week, Wednesdays the last few years, everytime a pitcher picks up a baseball he throws a changeup. Whether he is getting loose in the outfield, shagging balls, or doing drills, he throws a changeup.

I agree with raiderbb and Coach B25 on this one - the change can and should be used at any count. I don't see the change counts as much different than breaking pitch counts...the goal of both pitches is to get the hitter off stride. If the kid has a nice change piece, we use it a lot - especially to the best hitters.

Everyone has there own set of rules where they feel comfortable with the change up. Some throw it only in certain counts, others throw it only to certain hitters and/or in certain game situations. No approach is wrong...all can, and do, work (otherwise, no one would use that particular approach). I follow many of the rules of thumb listed above.

While it can be used as a strike out pitch, most of the time we want the batter to hit it. A change that gets hit usually does less damage than a fast ball that gets hit. All things being equal, I'll take a 5 pitch, 3 ground out inning over a 15 pitch, 3 strike out inning every time.