The “Clap” standard.

So teams whose fans cheer like Little League parents never get charged with errors?

 

Just kidding.

 

I get what you're trying to say, but I'd be careful about sounding like you're trusting the fans' emotions more than your own judgment about the level of proficiency expected of players at the level of the games your scoring.  I realize you're not doing that, but someone could take it wrong.

Why was the 2b "cheating"?

 

Bob

Originally Posted by Swampboy:

…I get what you're trying to say, but I'd be careful about sounding like you're trusting the fans' emotions more than your own judgment about the level of proficiency expected of players at the level of the games your scoring.  I realize you're not doing that, but someone could take it wrong.

 

Well, I really don’t care a flip about what the fans do or don’t do. Its how I envision what the play would have been if made. Some fans may cheer for an “Ordinary Effort” play, but not many more. However, in general fans on both sides will cheer for a truly great play. I’ve seen enough of both to know the difference, and so far I haven’t had anyone accuse me of allowing the fan’s emotions to sway my judgment. If anything, its just the opposite.

 

What would make my life easier, would be if NFHS updated their rulebook to include the definition of “Ordinary Effort” in OBR. That way I wouldn’t have to come up with analogies and metaphors and just had the rule book to anyone who had a question about something like this.

Originally Posted by Consultant:

Why was the 2b "cheating"?

 

Well, this is only a guess because I can’t say for sure what the player and the coach were thinking. There was an above average velocity guy on the mound, the player at bat had barely gotten the bat on the ball his 1^st time up, and our players are notorious for going the “other” way and this was a RHB. All I know is, F4 was almost halfway between 2^nd and 1^st when the ball was pitched.

He should be given a "mental error", by moving before the pitch.

As a hitter I would anticipate an "outside" pitch and "stay back" longer.

 

The 2b telegraph the pitch and the hitter reacted.

Bob

Rather than defending your rulings with counterfactual conjectures as to how the fans might have reacted to a different outcome, perhaps you could justify them based on what actually does happen.  

 

I humbly offer the following tests to help resolve doubts over whether to rule a hit or an error:

1.  The "goshdarnitBilly!" test.  Does the father of the suspect fielder express disgust that his son didn't make the play?

2.  The equipment inspection test.  After the attempted play, does the suspect fielder inspect the webbing of his glove or move his sunglasses from above his visor to below it?

3.  The pitcher dad reaction test.  Does the pitcher's father yell out, "Not you, Johnny!  You did your job!" or words to that effect?

4.  The "not guilty by reason of boo-boo" test.  Does the suspect player get back on his feet and return to his position with sufficiently painful movements and expressions to win the sympathy of anyone who might have been inclined to criticize his performance?

5.  The hook test.  Does the defensive team's coach immediately replace an apparently uninjured suspect fielder?

6.  The opposing team reaction test.  Does anyone yell, "Free pass!"  or "Hey! Hey! Make 'em pay!" or any other expression indicating a belief they have just received undeserved favor from the baseball gods?

 

Two or more yes answers means it's a definite "E."  

 

One yes answer, call it a hit and make two people happy instead of just one.

Originally Posted by Consultant:

He should be given a "mental error", by moving before the pitch.

As a hitter I would anticipate an "outside" pitch and "stay back" longer.

 

The 2b telegraph the pitch and the hitter reacted.

 

How does one mark a mental error on the scoresheet? How do you know whether the coach directed him to position himself there. If he did, how do I mark a mental error on the coach?

 

What did F5 telegraph? How do you know he didn’t move with the pitch? How do you know what the pitch type and location were?

 

Look, I don’t know what was going on in anyone’s mind, but as a scorer it isn’t my job to guess at such things. All I do is write down what took place in as accurate way as possible within the scoring rules. I’ll leave things like marking mental errors and guessing what was “telegraphed” to those who presume to read minds.

Originally Posted by Swampboy:

Rather than defending your rulings with counterfactual conjectures as to how the fans might have reacted to a different outcome, perhaps you could justify them based on what actually does happen.

 

OK, Swampboy, you’re the expert on ordinary effort and I’m just a Bozo who doesn’t know jack about scoring. I’ll change what was marked to both a hit and an error. Will that make you happy? I apologize for being such a fool and will turn in my resignation at today’s game.

Stats,
You read that wrong. I pretend no expertise. I thought you were being sort of whimsical with your suggestion and I was being whimsical in mine. Lighten up, Bro.

Originally Posted by Swampboy:

Stats,
You read that wrong. I pretend no expertise. I thought you were being sort of whimsical with your suggestion and I was being whimsical in mine. Lighten up, Bro.

 

I wasn’t being “whimsical” at all. The extent of knowledge about the scoring rules generally by coaches is weak at best. For players, in all but a small percentage, its limited to knowing little more than the words for the most part. For fans, most of whom are parents of players, in most cases the knowledge is at best poor and at worst almost non-existent.

 

But it doesn’t matter what anyone’s knowledge is, they still have every right to moan and complain when they feel there’s been an injustice of some sort done. Over the years I’ve found that its much easier on everyone if I can find a way to make a complainer understand that there are guidelines for such things, and explain my interpretation. I could and have preached the “book”, but the NFHS rule book is so far behind OBR, waving the rule book only makes for more problems, especially if they were to actually read it, which very few do. Most people don’t want to be preached to or even informed.

 

So, rather than get into a pi$$ing contest that only detracts from everyone else’s enjoyment of the game, if I can get people to understand my thinking when on a play like that, they’ll “normally” accept it, even if they don’t agree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...l_%28sportswriter%29

In this article, one of the "greatest" Sports Writers in our baseball history was the official scorer at Yankee Stadium during Joe D. 56 game hitting streak.

 

Regarding the 2b anticipation, if he moved his left foot outward before the pitch the smart hitter would know he will move left. Is the 2b receiving the catcher's signs on each pitch. Few coaches direct [position] their 9 defensive players on each pitch.

Hopefully the 2b movement to left and then quickly to his right was instinctive.

 

Bob

Originally Posted by Consultant:

Regarding the 2b anticipation, if he moved his left foot outward before the pitch the smart hitter would know he will move left. Is the 2b receiving the catcher's signs on each pitch. Few coaches direct [position] their 9 defensive players on each pitch.

Hopefully the 2b movement to left and then quickly to his right was instinctive.

 

And the smart infielder will make movements that are intended to make the hitters believe they’ll be doing something that have no intention to do. I have no idea if our IFrs take signs from the catcher, and frankly don’t care. I know our coach moves the players a lot, but I haven’t got a clue if he does it based on the pitches he’s going to call, and again don’t care.

 

I’m an SK and only try to record what I see as best I can, I don’t ask the coach or the players what they were thinking about a play because there’s nothing in the rules that requires it, nor anything that makes allowances for it. My job is to use my best judgment, not to base what I mark on what anyone THINKS.

I'd score it a hit. But I'm no expert. The OP made sense to me.

After three weekends of college ball, I've seen at least three plays where I have disagreed with the score keeper. In all cases, he scored hit and I scored error. It really amazes me that fairly routine ground balls (a step or two required on a ball not hard hit) to middle infielders are scored hits.

 

I scored tougher in HS and thought I was generous.

 

Stats in the case above, I'm going hit all the way. Any dive with ball off outstretched glove is a hit at any level.