Skip to main content

26 replies

The Comprehensive Nutrition Thread For Athletes

J jsorb8997100+ posts
Introduction

Dieting is Not Only for the Overweight

Diet is a much too often overlooked piece to the baseball puzzle. It is one of the largest factors in developing strength and size, as well as overall health and well being. For us athletes, we want to spread our meals out evenly throughout the day. 3 large meals a day (breakfast, lunch, and dinner) simply don't suffice for our caloric and metabolic needs. When we're training hard, we need a constant flow of nutrients. ALL of the macronutrients (proteins, carbohydrates, and fats) are important when determining a diet plan. Some of us need to gain muscle; some of us need to lose fat. It is most efficient to focus on one of the two at once, and only an immaculate diet/routine/possibly drugs will produce a significant amount of simultaneous fat-loss/muscle gain (unless you are brand new to training, very overweight, etc).

The two most simple, yet disregarded aspects of diet:

A caloric deficit= Weight Loss

A caloric surplus= Weight Gain

You must burn more calories than you consume to lose weight, and you must eat more than you burn to gain weight. Just how many calories to cut/add is a more complicated matter.

Food and Macronutrients:

Macronutrients, as opposed to micronutrients (vitamins etc), are what all food is made up of. There are three types of macronutrients: Protein, Carbohydrates, and Fats. Protein is of utmost importance to the athlete both in season and off-season, but carbs and fats are right behind. An optimal diet has a specific ratio of protein to carbs to fats. Currently I am on a 40-40-20 diet. An athlete should be eating at least 6-7 times/day, with calories spread out evenly. You may decrease carbs toward the end of the day if you are carb sensitive or trying to lose weight. If you don’t want to nitpick, you can still eat well. Aim for at least 1g of protein/lb of body weight daily. Eat clean and you will see a difference. What is clean eating you ask?

Clean Foods: Food without unnatural preservatives, hydrogenated fats, lots of saturated fat, synthetic sugars, etc.

Protein:

Lean Beef/Ground Beef
Skinless Turkey Breast
Skinless Chicken Breast
Tuna Fish (both canned and fresh)
Low Fat Cheeses
Assorted Fish: Halibut, Salmon, etc.
Ham (usually should be avoided due to high NaCl content, but its OK if need be)
Eggs
Egg Whites
Lamb
Protein Powders

Try to cook all of your meats fresh. Deli meat is very high in salt/preservatives. If nothing else is available, get deli meat.

Carbs:

Green Veggies/L (Spinach, Broccoli, Lettuce, Cucumbers, etc)
Other Veggies (peppers, carrots, etc)
Fruits (grapefruit, bananas, oranges, blueberries, strawberries, etc)
Whole Grain/Ezekiel Bread
Sweet Potatoes/Yams
Potatoes
Organic honey, sparingly

Healthy Fats

Almonds/Almond Butter
Natural sugar-free Peanut Butter
Avocados
Olive Oil
Butter, very sparingly (some saturated fat is needed in the diet to facilitate testosterone production)
Fish Oil/Enova Oil/Sesamin

Eating According to your Somatotype

There are three somatotypes, or body types, that we humans are formed as. These are the ectomorph, endomorph, and mesomorph. Ectomorphs tend to have long, lanky arms and legs, small bone structure and long muscle bellies, and a naturally high metabolism/low body fat percentage (yours truly). They usually have a hard time gaining muscle due to their metabolism. Many baseball players fall under this category, especially pitchers. Endomorphs are your typical “heavy-set” or “fat” kid, to be blunt, and have a hard time losing weight. They have the slowest metabolism of the bunch, and although they can gain muscle easily, they easily put on fat as well. A lot of times, they are very carb sensitive. Mesomorphs are somewhere in between, having considerably low body fat, a medium to high metabolism, and gain muscle easily. They have broad shoulders and wide backs. Fortunately or unfortunately, most people are a combination of these body types. Obviously, the ideal body type is a pure ecto-meso (like that of pro bodybuilders/professional athletes). Usually, it doesn’t quite work out like that…

Ectomorphs: You need a diet higher in calories than your counterparts (the ones who don’t resemble an unquenchable furnace). Eat, eat, eat is your key. Depending on your needs, to gain weight you must up your calories by a lot. There is no rule other than that. The exact amount will be larger than other people’s, but there is no magic number. Your need must be adjusted as such with a nutritionist/someone knowledgeable.

Endomorphs: Use your metabolism to your advantage and don’t let it hurt you. Be careful with carbs, especially late in the day. You will want to stay almost completely away from carbs that are high on the glycemic index, both when trying to gain or lose weight. Eat in moderation and eat frequently. Your calories will be significantly lower than the others.


Mesomorphs:: Make sure not to let any strengths that you may have get in the way of improving weaknesses. Eat a well balanced diet high in protein, and again, be careful with the carb intake. Eat, sleep, and lift, and you WILL grow.

All types of people have their own unique potential for their physique and performance. No matter what body type you are, you can and will succeed.

Micronutrients and Protein Powders

Although not as important for body composition, vitamins and antioxidants are very important for general health and athletic performance. Here’s a little bit on vitamins and protein powder.

For vitamins, they should generally be taken 2-3 times a day. The half life of most vitamins is around 8 hrs. I take my 2 multis in the morning and late afternoon. I take extra C and E as well, C at around 1.5-2g pre-workout, and E at 800 iu post WO or before bed. Remember, the RDA for vitamins (recommended daily allowance) does not apply for athletes. We need more than “100%” of the typical sedentary RDA. Many vitamins can be taken at much higher doses than recommended by the “all-knowing” FDA. Before you increase the dose of any vitamin, research it’s effects at high doses. Vitamins can be harmful at extremely high doses, like everything else.

You should look at protein not as something you take, but something you eat. I generally don't even look at it as a supplement, but it should be used as such. Use your protein to help reach your totals for the day. Traditionally, whey protein is taken post workout in the famous "post workout window." Drink 30g of protein mixed with a carb source to replenish your glycogen after you lift. If you end up missing a shake, don't sweat it, drink it later.

Your overall diet needs to be in check before protein really becomes an issue. Whole food is better for gains.

Some Good Brands of Whey Protein:

Concentrates (slightly less pure form of protein, containing some lactose):

Optimum ON 100% Whey Protein-This is a great choice for individuals who want a cost effective protein that works. 25$ for 5 lbs...Can’t beat it. Some people don't like the taste (such as myself), but most do.

Isolates (contain no lactose, most pure form of protein available, more expensive):

For the lucky lactose intolerant individuals such as myself, this is the best option. Isolate is also a great option to people who want a better tasting protein. IMO, there will not be any difference in gains between Isos and Concentrates.

Universal's Ultra IsoWhey- my favorite chocolate protein, can't be beat.

Primaforce Substance WPI- great tasting fruit flavors

Syntrax Nectar- Similar to Substance, a variety of flavors

ErgoPharm GF-Pro- Another excellent protein, this one gets my vote for best tasting fruit flavored protein.


I hope that helps. There are a ton more varieties of proteins with different properties, such as casein, whey hydrosylate, egg-white, etc., but whey is the best options IMO: it's cheap and effective. Remember to buy online, it's much, much cheaper.


Some good links for the dieting athlete…

ON Protein Powder: http://bodybuilding.com/store/opt/whey.html
NOW foods multivitamin+ZMA: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/adam.html
Protein Powders: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/proteinfinder.htm
Nutrition: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbmainnut.htm


Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with any company in any way. There are many websites and resources for nutrition; bodybuilding.com is my favorite and got me started out.


This should give everyone a pretty good idea about how to eat well. There are many more questions that can be answered...ask in this thread. Please rate it after you read!
Last edited {1}
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

F futurecatcher271,000+ posts
What about corn.Like corn on the cobb or corn in cups(kinda like mandarin oranges are packaged)?Is it a good vegetable?

My diet is alot easier to follow in the summer then it is during the school year for obvious reasons

When I was 12,13 years old,I used to snack on crackers,etc.Now I have a piece of chicken breast or something of that sort instead.Id reccomend that to all fellow baseball players if you are looking to build.
J jsorb8997100+ posts
quote:
What about corn.Like corn on the cobb or corn in cups(kinda like mandarin oranges are packaged)?Is it a good vegetable?

My diet is alot easier to follow in the summer then it is during the school year for obvious reasons

When I was 12,13 years old,I used to snack on crackers,etc.Now I have a piece of chicken breast or something of that sort instead.Id reccomend that to all fellow baseball players if you are looking to build.


Corn on the cob is a fine vegetable and canned corn is O.K. as well. It's not the best but it will work.

quote:
I am going to try and start eating breakfast because I know I should. After reading this, would a good breakfast be:

Scrambled Eggs
Toast (With Jelly or Without?)
Milk or Orange Juice?
Strawberries (About the only fruit I like)

Thanks
Chris


Chris, don't feel bad, I have the same problem. I am never hungry in the morning. Something you can do- Make sure you don't eat any foods high in sat/trans fat the late night before. This will help you stay hungry. If you are eating a specific diet, you would want to measure out all of your portions to meet your daily total. Even if you're not, eat 3 whole eggs and toss in a few more whites. Use whole grain bread for toast with sugar-free jelly. Milk would probably be better than orange juice, and the strawberries are fine.

That is a big breakfast to make everyday, so here's a suggestion I borrowed from Derek C over at bodybuilding.com. Mix one cup of oats+water with two ***P of natural peanut butter, a scoop of chocolate whey powder, and two-three packets of splenda in a bowl. You can also add milk to the oats if you like instead of water. Cook it or eat it raw, it's quick and delicious.
P plp556100+ posts
I have read about a lot of people on this board just eating a chicken breast when they're hungery. The problem I have is I can never find just a Chicken Breat at the grocery store. Everything I find has already been fried and then forzen so all you have to do is heat it up. When I tell my mom to cook up some chicken breasts she doesn't know what I mean. Does anyone here have any recipes?
F futurecatcher271,000+ posts
go to any grocery store and go to the frozen dinners section.There should be frozen boneless chicken breasts.
If not go to a Costco,PriceMart,or Sams club(wholesale stores)and they are sure to have frozen boneless chicken breasts

Heres recipe I like:
1 Chicken Breast unthawed
cut half a lemon,drizzle over chicken once unthawed,lightly salt.Throw on stove or grill.

Tastes good,and is a healthy alternative for guys like us baseball players needing a protien filled food.
J jsorb8997100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by futurecatcher27:
go to any grocery store and go to the frozen dinners section.There should be frozen boneless chicken breasts.
If not go to a Costco,PriceMart,or Sams club(wholesale stores)and they are sure to have frozen boneless chicken breasts

Heres recipe I like:
1 Chicken Breast unthawed
cut half a lemon,drizzle over chicken once unthawed,lightly salt.Throw on stove or grill.

Tastes good,and is a healthy alternative for guys like us baseball players needing a protien filled food.


Yep, that's what I do. In fact my grill started on fire last night while I was cooking Smile.
F futurecatcher271,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by jsorb8997:
quote:
Originally posted by futurecatcher27:
go to any grocery store and go to the frozen dinners section.There should be frozen boneless chicken breasts.
If not go to a Costco,PriceMart,or Sams club(wholesale stores)and they are sure to have frozen boneless chicken breasts

Heres recipe I like:
1 Chicken Breast unthawed
cut half a lemon,drizzle over chicken once unthawed,lightly salt.Throw on stove or grill.

Tastes good,and is a healthy alternative for guys like us baseball players needing a protien filled food.


Yep, that's what I do. In fact my grill started on fire last night while I was cooking Smile.

------------------
Never trust a skinny chef
Smile
JD Jon Doyle1,000+ posts
I don't know about "buddha" but I will give my two cents on what foods are acceptable

Of course I like the saying "If you can't catch it ,kill it or pick it then don't eat it"

Food Choices and General Info

•Protein- chicken breast, turkey breast, fish, lean pork, lean red meat, fresh ham, eggs (whole or whites), milk, cottage cheese, yogurt, and milk protein powders (whey and casein)

•Carbs- oatmeal, oat bran, lentils, beans, 100% whole-wheat bread, whole-wheat pasta, red potatoes, yams, greens, most other vegetables, and fruit

•Fats- flax seeds and/or flax seed oil, sunflower seeds and/or sunflower seed oil, fish oil (from fish or as capsules), hemp oil, olive oil, raw nuts, all natural peanut butter, and avocados, cheese, red meat, and whole eggs

•Realize that very few foods fall into solely one category. For example, red meat is a source of both protein and fat, milk contains both protein and carbs, and some carb choices such as beans or lentils also contain protein

•Greens can be added to any meal; they are considered "free," so eat as much as you'd like

For those who are more likely to gain fat I suggest carbs to generally be eaten within the first 6 hours of the day and post workout. These individuals are very sensitive to insulin and it just gets worse as the day goes on. So eating proteins, fats and green vegetables towdars the latter part of the day will help maximize muscle gain and performance while keeping fat gain to a minimum.

For those who are generally lean should eat ablance of the above foods in my opinion. The key is quality nutrients not the "I can eat whatever I want because I'm skinny" attitude.

Everyone reading who has specific questions please post them here and I will answer them. This topic is way to large to cover in one simple post.
J jsorb8997100+ posts
Good post, I agree with everything there. Foods most certainly cannot be grouped into only one category (most of the time). My categories were for the best sources of these macros...of course they do contain other macros for the most part.

What is your take on the PWO insulin-spike? Many people on here seem to agree with the old school method. I'm not one for that. My PWO meal is similar to most of my other meals, and does contain fat. Even for those with higher metabolisms, I've come to realize that Low-GI PWO meals may be the better choice. I believe the old study was done with 96g dextrose...an unbelievable amount of carbs for anyone.

My PWO meal consists of 75g of carbs (usually a couple of potatoes w/omega butter as well as sweet potatoes), 35g protein from a regular source (ie tuna/chicken/egg whites), and 15g fat. I've been doing it for 2 weeks and it's been going quite well.
JD Jon Doyle1,000+ posts
Right now the supplement companies are all pushing their post workout drinks that is why you see so much "science" behind it.

My experience is it's not that big of a deal. I use a protein powder along wth some oats and honey post workout. This is purely on convience. When I have time I go with some egg whites and frozen blueberries.

I notice the same amount of recovery with these in comparison to glucose-based drinks w/o the crash 45 minutes later.

If you like the shake fine, but I'd rather stay away from that amount of insulin-spiking carbs.

Far too much is placed on post-workout nutrition when their workouts arent even that demanding.
J jsorb8997100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by exercisecoach:
This is another case of looking at the world through a straw.


Please elaborate. Might as well not say anything like that unless you'll explain yourself. This is just a basic guide to the average athlete, it is not specifically tailored to anyone. Different things work for different people.
ChuckChuck10+ posts
No one was asking for reccommendations it was a question about what certain peoples takes are on this type of diet. So how about you contribute to the post instead of trying to undermind it. If you're a professional like you try to say you are then answer the question professionally and not with a lackluster response.
N nellyboy10+ posts
Chuck,

I should have elaborated further, that's my fault. What I was referring to was the author and that they (along with many others) look at minute details and isolated studies regarding nutrition and then make recommendations based upon this research.

It's interesting that he makes comments on fat burning being greater on an empty stomach, since this statement is what made me use that quote. World renowned strength coach, Charles Poliquin, used this quote in explaining why, he too, disagrees with this theory.

What they fail to mention is what happens after this period of fat burning. Since you are essentially starving yourself on this diet, among the many negative effects that are caused by this, one of them is your bodies increased willingness to store fat. A thousand years ago, this would have been necessary, not mention beneficial to keep a human alive in times of food shortage.

Since we are the same human, physiologically, as we were back then (and much further for that matter), we are forced to live within our developmental parameters. For example, if you want to lose fat...you need to eat regularly. Six times, eight times per day? In most cases not, but much more frequently than once...this is especially true if your goal is to gain muscle mass!

Dave
J jsorb8997100+ posts
A few good articles, not on nutrition but still interesting/helpful reading.

Testing your Mettle, by Will Carrol: http://mindandmuscle.net/mindandmuscle/magpage.php?artID=59

Extended Set Methods Part I: Upper Body
by Marc McDougal (this one cites Charles Poliquin nellyboy...this is a principle, the workouts aren't for baseball): http://mindandmuscle.net/mindandmuscle/magpage.php?issueID=42&artID=60

Movement Patterns and Rhomboid Activation for Optimal Shoulder Health, by Taylor Simon:
http://mindandmuscle.net/mindandmuscle/magpage.php?issueID=42&artID=62
Last edited by jsorb8997
N nellyboy10+ posts
futurecatcher,

Think of it this way:
what do you think your body would rather have
A)Organic Beef (any type)
B)Processed, sugar-filled, nitrate-filled, poor attempt at real food?

Unless we consumed it during our developmental periods for the last couple thousand to millions of years, our digestive systems aren't able to effectively digest, assimilate, utilize and eliminate. It simply becomes energy with little to no nutritional benefits.

Hope this helps. If you have any questions, let me know!

Dave
J jsorb8997100+ posts
Nellyboy's got it right. If at all possible, just get ground beef...

Some insight into Nelly's philosophy:

quote:
If it pleases the forum, I'd like to present a holistic approach:

1)Start with nutrition and lifestyle factors.
*Are you eating for your metabolic type?
*Are you eating organic foods?
*Are you getting adequate sleep (atleast in bed by 10:30p and wake around 6:30 or 7:00?)
*Do your drink half your bodyweight in ounces of clean water w/ solids added or naturally occuring?
2)Look at postural quality.
*Is head forward (ears forward from being positioned over shoulders)?
*Are shoulders rolled forward (depressed strernum, increased tone in anterior delt)?
*Is you lumbar spine flat or hyperlordotic (too much curve)?
*Do your knees bow inward or out?
*Do your ankles bow inward or out?
3)Test for proper core function.
*Does belly button move towards or away from starting position during loaded/unloaded movements?
*Do you have or have you had chronic back, shoulder, knee, ankle, elbow, wrist pain or injury?
*Does your stomach protrude and distend when at rest even if you perform 1,000's of crunches?
4)Are you able to perform Primal Pattern movements proficiently? (Paul Chek's trademark)
*Squat, Push, Pull, Lunge, Twist, Bend, 3 forms of gait (Can you perform all of these through a full range of motion with control)
5)How long and how have you been following structured weight training?

If you find any dysfunctions or weaknesses, strive to correct each of them in order BEFORE moving onto the next problem area. For example: if your nutrition and lifestyle are out of whack, make significantly improve them before moving onto specific postural work. Many times you'll find that your pain and chronic injuries fade away by correcting these crucial pieces of the puzzle. For instance, if your right shoulder aches for no reason at all (seemingly), by simply lightening the load on your liver, this will disappear!

Once you reach the Primal Pattern portion of this approach, unless you have a clinical weakness in the rotator cuff, it is the opinion of myself that isolating them actually increases the risk of chronic breakdown and eventual injury. The way that I rationalize this is by the prinicples of tissue breakdown. The more a muscle is loaded, the higher the chance that muscle with hypertrophy. This is great, if you look at it in isolation, but when you don't allow for adequate recovery, the tissue will stay inflammed and begin to cause pain. Anyone can witness this by performing a push pattern on consecutive days for a considerable amount of time; the shoulder joint usually begins to feel achy and/or sore. Eventually, chronic inflammation sets in and the result is damage to the inert and moving tissues (I.e bursitis). Since throwing a baseball places stress upon the entire arm (amount depends on the individual), performing additional exercises that load the musculature even more is very difficult to adequately recover from! I have seen this time and time again when I played, when I coached and now especially since I began training them.

When you train the pull and push patterns, the rotator cuff musculature have to act as stabilizers, fixators, secondary movers and neutralizers. Throughout the throwing motion, they perform many of the same functions only at speeds greater than that of most training protocol. This is why periodization is so important to program design. Basically, you progress to a level where you're able to perform these movements at speeds rivaling the throwing motion.

This next paragraph should not be taken out of context. If you watch natives throw spears and rocks at animals during hunting, you will see many similarities in their motions as well as baseball players. Imagine how much velocity is necessary to accelerate a rock or spear in order to penetrate an animals hide! Do any of these tribalsmen, need to perform structured weight training or rotator cuff exercises? Granted, they don't have to worry about doing this 150+ times per game over many months of the year...so once again don't take this out of context! This is only describing the lack of a "need" for rotator cuff exercises in order to throw with great velocity. Once in a while, I'll come across an article stating the need for these exercises to increase velocity and I always think of this concept.

An additional concept is speed of movement during these exercises. How many of you perform an external rotation exercise explosively? Hopefully none of you...unless your arm is exceptionally strong and stable! However, your arm reaches speeds of 2,000 degrees per second, so how can an exercise performed in isolation at speeds much slower, increase velocity? Do I advocate moving your 8lb at explosive speeds during these movements? God no! This is why I advocate using multi-joint exercises instead...during these movements, you will be able to perform them at maximal speeds.

I know I'm getting long-winded, so I'll stop for now and see some of your feedback before elaborating or moving further.

Dave
Last edited by jsorb8997

Add Reply

Post
.

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×