Beezer, excellent point. To me that is a pointer and not coaching. My daughter also pitches. At times, she gets tired and doesn't get into what her pitching coach calls the "sprinter's position" or in other words doesn't load her core well. She too has asked that when I see it to give her a verbal cue. I don't see anything wrong with that as long as it doesn't go against what the coach is instructing. I would propose a similar situation in a negative light. Say a coach has cues for hitting that he has worked on with the child and when that child comes up, the parents are yelling different cues that circumvent the progress the young man has made on hitting. Then those verbal cues are negative influences. (Example, we don't believe in using the phrase "extension". If a parent is yelling get "extension" it would not be good." I do think that a coach can go along way in preventing these problems by having a parent's meeting. Ours will be this Saturday. In it, I will discuss much of what is presented here.
quote:I never did understand the element that says, "coaches are always right, and if they aren't, it's not my job to change it." Just who's job is the welfare of our kids?
I rest my argument.
There isn't 1 poster that hasn't felt their son was getting his fair share. We are not talking about child abuse here but the things that come with hard choices made by a coach. Not always brilliant choices but the Coach is the Coach.
If a coach abused a kid you have an obligation to report that coach. I have seen coaches grab a kid by the arm and the whole thing blew up in his face. I have seen a coach stop a kid by placing his hand on his chest as he walked by in the duggout to discuss an error he made. Who determines if this is abuse in the context of a game ? The heat of the moment. Parents went ballistic. Who makes the call ?
Unless you have an abuse issue,not a BB issue ,parents should stay out of it.
TheEH and others say it well
Coach - I see your counterpoint as well, which I wouldn't appreciate either! In our particular situation, the other coaches haven't been present during his winter pitching workouts so they wouldn't be aware of this particualr cue and I hesitate to make a point of it until the situation presents itself.
FBM:
I've enjoyed reading your comments in this thread and agree with them.
I've enjoyed reading your comments in this thread and agree with them.
Todays World is worried too much about being politically correct--- if it keeps up there may be no more teachers/instructors/coaches etc
Why don't we let all these PC parents run the show ?
In no time there will be NO SHOW !!!!!
Why don't we let all these PC parents run the show ?
In no time there will be NO SHOW !!!!!
Woody ...
Thanks. I appreciate the positive feedback.
TR ...
Agree with you 100% (and I just know you have been waiting to hear that all week, right?). Our society has worries so much about self esteem and all that 'stuff' that our children aren't learning how to face life and all that it hands them along the way. Wonder sometimes how they are going to deal with the day to day realities of jobs etc when they grow up ... think they'll call mom and dad to help them out?
Thanks. I appreciate the positive feedback.
TR ...
Agree with you 100% (and I just know you have been waiting to hear that all week, right?). Our society has worries so much about self esteem and all that 'stuff' that our children aren't learning how to face life and all that it hands them along the way. Wonder sometimes how they are going to deal with the day to day realities of jobs etc when they grow up ... think they'll call mom and dad to help them out?
What if we could all just at once, for half a second, stop the world and go back to sand lot ball.
Remember those days? Days when rode our bikes to the park, just as fast as we could,...and played til dark.
Hated to be called home at dusk,..only to scarf up dinner and beg our parents to head back out again.
Simpler times,....great times!!!
Things were so much easier back then.
Just kids playin' ball.
Funny, I have no recollection of my folks being around at all when we played.
I have no memory of fancy equipment either.
We just made do with what we had and played.
Played our hearts out we did. Got bloody and just kept on playin'. No time to stop and go all the way home to get a bandaide.
( Still have the scar on my left knee, I do,...and am to this day many many years later, still pretty dang proud of it! )
Those were the days!!! When it was just about the game of baseball,....just baseball.
( My memory moment is over and I will head back into reality. It was good though,..wasnt it? Remembering back to those sweet sweet summer days!! When life was so much simplier, and baseball was just baseball.)
Loved it then.
Love it now.
Remember those days? Days when rode our bikes to the park, just as fast as we could,...and played til dark.
Hated to be called home at dusk,..only to scarf up dinner and beg our parents to head back out again.
Simpler times,....great times!!!
Things were so much easier back then.
Just kids playin' ball.
Funny, I have no recollection of my folks being around at all when we played.
I have no memory of fancy equipment either.
We just made do with what we had and played.
Played our hearts out we did. Got bloody and just kept on playin'. No time to stop and go all the way home to get a bandaide.
( Still have the scar on my left knee, I do,...and am to this day many many years later, still pretty dang proud of it! )
Those were the days!!! When it was just about the game of baseball,....just baseball.
( My memory moment is over and I will head back into reality. It was good though,..wasnt it? Remembering back to those sweet sweet summer days!! When life was so much simplier, and baseball was just baseball.)
Loved it then.
Love it now.
quote:Originally posted by shortstopmom:
Played our hearts out we did. Got bloody and just kept on playin'. No time to stop and go all the way home to get a bandaide.
( Still have the scar on my left knee, I do,...and am to this day many many years later, still pretty dang proud of it! )
Hey...shortstopmom...I think we were teammates!
I was the one riding the green Schwinn Stringray bike, with silver speckled banana seat, ( no front basket ) feet probably propped up on the handle bars ( showin' off ) and a ribboned pony tail in my hair! How about you?
quote:What if we could all just at once, for half a second, stop the world and go back to sand lot ball.
Remember those days? Days when rode our bikes to the park, just as fast as we could,...and played til dark.
Hated to be called home at dusk,..only to scarf up dinner and beg our parents to head back out again.
Simpler times,....great times!!!
Things were so much easier back then.
Just kids playin' ball.
Funny, I have no recollection of my folks being around at all when we played.
I have no memory of fancy equipment either.
We just made do with what we had and played.
Played our hearts out we did. Got bloody and just kept on playin'. No time to stop and go all the way home to get a bandaide.
( Still have the scar on my left knee, I do,...and am to this day many many years later, still pretty dang proud of it! )
Those were the days!!! When it was just about the game of baseball,....just baseball.
( My memory moment is over and I will head back into reality. It was good though,..wasnt it? Remembering back to those sweet sweet summer days!! When life was so much simplier, and baseball was just baseball.)
Loved it then.
Love it now.
That was so good I think I'll just quote the whole post
quote:Originally posted by shortstopmom:
I was the one riding the green Schwinn Stringray bike, with silver speckled banana seat, ( no front basket ) feet probably propped up on the handle bars ( showin' off ) and a ribboned pony tail in my hair! How about you?
My goodness shortstopmom! EX-ACT-LY the same...except, of course, I had the front basket.
shortstopmom, thanks for the image. I loved those bikes but couldn't afford them. Still I'd walk along the street by the local bike dealer just to stop, look and dream. Again, thanks!
Afternoon CoachB25,...believe it or not,..mom and dad STILL have my original ol' stingray in their garage!! Guess they just can't let the memories go. I can't blame them! 
Dad went to Reno on business and hit it big,....so big his winnings were just barely enough to buy my sister and I both bikes,...and a swing set. ( the ol' metal kind with hot metal slide that dented easily and ya had to stick the hose on it to cool it down from the hot sun! ) ha!
Ohhh what days,..what days indeed.
Dad went to Reno on business and hit it big,....so big his winnings were just barely enough to buy my sister and I both bikes,...and a swing set. ( the ol' metal kind with hot metal slide that dented easily and ya had to stick the hose on it to cool it down from the hot sun! ) ha!
Ohhh what days,..what days indeed.
Kid got his first at bat in 8 months, coming in the bottom of the 7th to hit. I wanted to tell him to swing at any *#@ thing on the first pitch. Anybody with a reasonable amount of coaching experience knows that after a long layoff they've got to be up there hacking. The kid should know that by now, he's been told but he's also a kid. I kept my mouth shut. The coach didn't say a word. The bat never got off his shoulder, no surprise.
As far as the person who said that the team always comes first I don't believe that for a moment. Each person's kid always comes first to them. If you are smart you teach them that the team comes first because that is what is best for the player in the long run in most situations. However, in rare cases that loyalty is not rewarded by the team and a player has to seek a new situation.
There seems to be an ethos among some that a player should play in pain and not consider their future. That works great for the one's who don't suffer permanent injury or perform so poorly they never get a chance to play again. For those who do suffer permanent injury or can no longer perform well enough putting the team first wasn't the right decision. Ironically, sometimes putting the player first is what benefits the team the most. The hard part is figuring out when that is.
So far my son has been going through recovery from injuries and he's done his part to be loyal to the program and overall the program has returned the loyalty although I'm not happy with the current situation, but that's just me more than anything else.
As far as the person who said that the team always comes first I don't believe that for a moment. Each person's kid always comes first to them. If you are smart you teach them that the team comes first because that is what is best for the player in the long run in most situations. However, in rare cases that loyalty is not rewarded by the team and a player has to seek a new situation.
There seems to be an ethos among some that a player should play in pain and not consider their future. That works great for the one's who don't suffer permanent injury or perform so poorly they never get a chance to play again. For those who do suffer permanent injury or can no longer perform well enough putting the team first wasn't the right decision. Ironically, sometimes putting the player first is what benefits the team the most. The hard part is figuring out when that is.
So far my son has been going through recovery from injuries and he's done his part to be loyal to the program and overall the program has returned the loyalty although I'm not happy with the current situation, but that's just me more than anything else.
quote:Anybody with a reasonable amount of coaching experience knows that after a long layoff they've got to be up there hacking.
I strongly disagree with this. So it just goes to show, on matters of judgment, reasonable minds can disagree. This would definitely present a situation where the parent should do a Jerry Tarkanian and chew on a towel and let the coach do the coaching.
What a good discussion this has turned into...
I winced when I read the posts justifying giving instructions from the stands. Sorry, just can't agree. If you really feel your input is crucial to their performance, compromise by reminding them before they leave for school, debrief if your son or daughter is willing to do so WELL after the game is over, or reinforce with a message on a hat or piece of equipment if you have a special mantra, but DON'T yell instructions. Scouts and coaches detest it, and perhaps most importantly, your players are hating it. Clap, cheer, and make noise like a fan. Save the advice until they ask how they can raise a good kid like you did!
I winced when I read the posts justifying giving instructions from the stands. Sorry, just can't agree. If you really feel your input is crucial to their performance, compromise by reminding them before they leave for school, debrief if your son or daughter is willing to do so WELL after the game is over, or reinforce with a message on a hat or piece of equipment if you have a special mantra, but DON'T yell instructions. Scouts and coaches detest it, and perhaps most importantly, your players are hating it. Clap, cheer, and make noise like a fan. Save the advice until they ask how they can raise a good kid like you did!
quote:Originally posted by CADad:
As far as the person who said that the team always comes first I don't believe that for a moment. Each person's kid always comes first to them.
I don't remember anyone saying that.
it's natural for a parent who has been involved in teaching & coaching thruout the players years to continue to do so ...
the wise ones will make the adjustment to continue doing so very quietly from beyond the lf fence (baseball), or from the very top row waay up behind the student section & pep band (basketball),
that way they can still fulfill their coaching urges but no-one can hear them
the wise ones will make the adjustment to continue doing so very quietly from beyond the lf fence (baseball), or from the very top row waay up behind the student section & pep band (basketball),
that way they can still fulfill their coaching urges but no-one can hear them
quote:Originally posted by CPLZ:
I don't remember anyone saying that.
You were following the Scooter Libby trial quite closely...eh, CPLZ?
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:
it's natural for a parent who has been involved in teaching & coaching thruout the players years to continue to do so ...
the wise ones will make the adjustment to continue doing so very quietly from beyond the lf fence (baseball), or from the very top row waay up behind the student section & pep band (basketball),
that way they can still fulfill their coaching urges but no-one can hear them
You're absolutely right Bee>...it's a cinch to adjust...and it muffles most everything. And if push comes to shove and you find you just can not control yourself...this little muzzle is equipped with a little flap, through which, you can wash your mouth out with saddle soap!
uh, I don't rememberquote:by gw4s: You were following the Scooter Libby trial quite closely...eh
would that be the scooter muzzel?
Yup!
quote:Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
You were following the Scooter Libby trial quite closely...eh, CPLZ?
I don't recall
quote:Originally posted by shortstopmom:
Funny, I have no recollection of my folks being around at all when we played.
Great post, but I feel I have to add just one small thing.
Not only were there no parents around, the only “organization” was what we provided because there were no adults at all, including all the wise coaches.
shortstop mom...excellent post re riding the bikes to an empty lot or a park to play all day...exactly what I did.
Had pocketfuls of peaches and plums and 50 cents for a couple of pops.
On Friday, when I got paid from my paper route job (About $5.00)...lunchtime was a popsicle; fudgsicle; and creamsicle. Had $4.50 left for Saturday and Sunday.
Had pocketfuls of peaches and plums and 50 cents for a couple of pops.
On Friday, when I got paid from my paper route job (About $5.00)...lunchtime was a popsicle; fudgsicle; and creamsicle. Had $4.50 left for Saturday and Sunday.
Since some of us are reminiscing, my Dad would make it there for the last few inning of each game. You knew where he was because he went and stood by a Chinese Elm Tree and would be whittling a stick while kneeling down. He worked in a vinegar mill and so, most people couldn't stand to be around him because of the smell. My Dad never approached the coach. However, once in a while, the coach approached him. My Coach understood the backwardness of my family and tried to make my Dad fit in. My Dad never said more words than "Yes Sir," "Thank You," and "I'll take care of it." All this said in his southern drawl. My Dad was also a good judge of talent. He never sang my praises to anyone else and he was very hard on me if I wasn't giving my best. However, he was also the first compliment me on effort. I think he always knew I wasn't really any good. Certainly, nothing was ever the coach's fault. Still, his words of praise made me feel like a million bucks! I think sometimes in this conflict of rights and wrongs between parents and coaches, the kid gets left out. JMHO!
Midlo Dad,
Didn't say a word. Just wanted to.
My experience is that after a long layoff kids tend to try to see if the pitch is going to be a strike and think about it instead of just reacting. They need to go up there hacking the first few at bats after a layoff or they'll never get the bat started in time. Once they've got themselves swinging then they can work their way back to their normal hitting approach.
That's my experience, obviously Midlo Dad has had different experiences. Any other coaches have a preference in that situation?
Cplz,
There are a lot of things people don't say that are true. The fact that for most people their kids are the most important thing in the world to them is demonstrated time and again. It can be taken to extremes and that's one reason why at times we see dysfunctional baseball parents.
Didn't say a word. Just wanted to.
My experience is that after a long layoff kids tend to try to see if the pitch is going to be a strike and think about it instead of just reacting. They need to go up there hacking the first few at bats after a layoff or they'll never get the bat started in time. Once they've got themselves swinging then they can work their way back to their normal hitting approach.
That's my experience, obviously Midlo Dad has had different experiences. Any other coaches have a preference in that situation?
Cplz,
There are a lot of things people don't say that are true. The fact that for most people their kids are the most important thing in the world to them is demonstrated time and again. It can be taken to extremes and that's one reason why at times we see dysfunctional baseball parents.
quote:There are a lot of things people don't say that are true. The fact that for most people their kids are the most important thing in the world to them is demonstrated time and again. It can be taken to extremes and that's one reason why at times we see dysfunctional baseball parents.
dysfunctional baseball parents.
It's a disease, just like drug abuse and alcoholism?
BLURTIDOUS, It can be Controlled. But not contained.
The best way to prevent such attacks??
Stay away from the game.
If that is not an option.
Then at least get as far away from the game as possible.
Maybe down the left are right field line.
Remember though that there are other ( BLURTS, thats what we like to be called ) Present. And there blurt might not coincide with what your blurt is meaning.
And then you might have a uncontrollable blurt attack that might cause a total hot air meltdown.
So for your players sake try to put a sock in it. EH
I've read these posts 1 at a time about the loud and disrespectful parents and I thought I'd chime in a personal note.
When I was growing up my dad was busy doing 12 ounce curls with his buddies when I had games and I would have given my left arm for him to be in those stands, sober, putting in his 2 cents worth. My dad conquered his demon in my last year of HS, passed away 20 years later as my best friend, and I know he went to his grave wishing he was at those games raising a little he11.
My point is a short one. People should be careful when dropping the gavel on that loud parent because at least an effort is being made to be there. I know that they stick out like a sore thumb and have to be dealt with but sometimes when we look at the obvious problem we may be forgetting the quiet victim. The coaches effort, and rightfully so, is to address the one who is in his face or detremental to the team. However, there is a time in a season to sit down and look in the other direction also. Why mom/dad are not there.
When I was growing up my dad was busy doing 12 ounce curls with his buddies when I had games and I would have given my left arm for him to be in those stands, sober, putting in his 2 cents worth. My dad conquered his demon in my last year of HS, passed away 20 years later as my best friend, and I know he went to his grave wishing he was at those games raising a little he11.
My point is a short one. People should be careful when dropping the gavel on that loud parent because at least an effort is being made to be there. I know that they stick out like a sore thumb and have to be dealt with but sometimes when we look at the obvious problem we may be forgetting the quiet victim. The coaches effort, and rightfully so, is to address the one who is in his face or detremental to the team. However, there is a time in a season to sit down and look in the other direction also. Why mom/dad are not there.
Coach B - I always love to hear stories of your childhood. Your folks were "good people" as they say!
rz1,
Thanks for sharing that bittersweet memory. It is a good reminder, isn't it, that some parents could not give a care about their son or daughter's activities.
I am reminded of my own parents who did not travel to the state high school tennis tournament in which my younger sister was competing....and for no other reason than they just weren't interested........or maybe they didn't think they could go, or should go, or, or, or.....I don't know, it was a different time....
But it does serve to remind us that there are two sides to every story....
Thanks for sharing that bittersweet memory. It is a good reminder, isn't it, that some parents could not give a care about their son or daughter's activities.
I am reminded of my own parents who did not travel to the state high school tennis tournament in which my younger sister was competing....and for no other reason than they just weren't interested........or maybe they didn't think they could go, or should go, or, or, or.....I don't know, it was a different time....
But it does serve to remind us that there are two sides to every story....
Are parents?
I'm talking (early to late baby boomers) Parents.
Survived thru much harsher conditions then we ever could of imagined?
I'm willing to cut them some slack.
On the other hand we know better?
And we can change are behavior.
EH
I'm talking (early to late baby boomers) Parents.
Survived thru much harsher conditions then we ever could of imagined?
I'm willing to cut them some slack.
On the other hand we know better?
And we can change are behavior.
EH
quote:Originally posted by theEH:
Are parents?I'm talking (early to late baby boomers) Parents.
Survived thru much harsher conditions then we ever could of imagined?
I'm willing to cut them some slack.
On the other hand we know better?
And we can change are behavior.
EH
Every generation has had their trials and tribulations and all have survived. The parents of baby boomers had their issues but there were many more positive virtues than negatives within that group. There is no reason to cut them or any other generation "slack".
There will be "bad eggs" in every group, and you can't stop them you can only hope to contain them. As far as changing behavior, yes, some parents should change theirs. But as coaches, we are not above the rest and have to accept the fact that those we coach will have a different attitudes along with their parents as time goes on, and it is imperative that the coaching ranks adjust accordingly. "Old School" is a great end result, but in order to sell that "snake oil", a coach may have to adjust his delivery.
The worse thing a coach can say is "I've done it like this for years and I'm not going to change". Because at the same time those who play for us and their parents have had to make continuous changes to keep in-tune with the changes within the generation. History has shown that "great" coaches who have endured the years are also the ones that have accepted and adapted to change.
I see it everyday. I see the vocal parents and the overbearing parents. It carries over from Travel Ball to HighSchool Ball and it is pretty scary. The writing is already on the wall with these guys.
I usually sit far away and video tape the games. People ask me why do you sit so far away? I usually tell them , " so I can enjoy the game".
I usually sit far away and video tape the games. People ask me why do you sit so far away? I usually tell them , " so I can enjoy the game".
quote:Originally posted by baseballbum:
I see it everyday. I see the vocal parents and the overbearing parents. It carries over from Travel Ball to HighSchool Ball and it is pretty scary. The writing is already on the wall with these guys.
I usually sit far away and video tape the games. People ask me why do you sit so far away? I usually tell them , " so I can enjoy the game".
I'm also one of those "fence-line sitters" and it's not always the vocal parents that force my seat assignment but also the ones that do not enjoy the "game within the game" and those who insist on talking about things outside the game. Some call us "outcasts" I perfer "non-confrontational purist". Besides I like to spit seeds in any direction I want without thinking about causualties
CADad, maybe we should start another thread on this. But my feeling is that the last thing someone who is "rusty" needs to do is go up there swinging at anything. As Ted Williams used to say, the secret to hitting is to get a good pitch to hit.
I agree that you see kids whose reactions are a bit slow from being rusty, and they freeze up and take a pitch right down the middle. But "go up there hacking" can be counterproductive. A kid who swings at balls out of the zone will soon find that he sees nothing but balls out of the zone. Pitchers can be smart like that.
I like to see a kid approach each pitch on the assumption he's going to attack it. But when it leaves the hitting zone the trigger action stops. If it stays in the hitting zone, let 'er rip!
I agree that you see kids whose reactions are a bit slow from being rusty, and they freeze up and take a pitch right down the middle. But "go up there hacking" can be counterproductive. A kid who swings at balls out of the zone will soon find that he sees nothing but balls out of the zone. Pitchers can be smart like that.
I like to see a kid approach each pitch on the assumption he's going to attack it. But when it leaves the hitting zone the trigger action stops. If it stays in the hitting zone, let 'er rip!
Midlo Dad,
I think we're in agreement actually. If you give them the instruction to swing for that first at bat or two they will still take the really poor pitches unless they are free swingers to an extreme. If they are that much of free swingers then they don't need any instruction to swing. I was making a generalization and something like that needs to be tailored to each player. My son generally needs to go up hacking because he'll still take the poor pitches. Other players need to be more selective to be effective. My "go up there hacking" is the same as your "approach each pitch on the assumption he's going to attack it."
I think we're in agreement actually. If you give them the instruction to swing for that first at bat or two they will still take the really poor pitches unless they are free swingers to an extreme. If they are that much of free swingers then they don't need any instruction to swing. I was making a generalization and something like that needs to be tailored to each player. My son generally needs to go up hacking because he'll still take the poor pitches. Other players need to be more selective to be effective. My "go up there hacking" is the same as your "approach each pitch on the assumption he's going to attack it."
Unfortunately, parents sometimes just don't get it. Criticizing a coach doesn't help the player, the team, or even THEM - mostly, those types of parents in good, supportive communities are thought of as the big mouth idiot who embarasses the program! Not every program has a good coach...but most guys TRY to do the best job they can.
Parents, take what CoachB25 said and listen to it. Supportive parents are always appreciated....and those that make fools of themselves don't help ANYONE.
Parents, take what CoachB25 said and listen to it. Supportive parents are always appreciated....and those that make fools of themselves don't help ANYONE.