The inevitabilities of travel baseball?

I had to scroll down to see where you live right in the middle of reading your post. I thought "this guy must live near me" because I've seen this exact same scenario with a local team (successful season, came in 2nd in USSSA nationals as 13U Majors) then the team broke up over various problems: a team mom who grifted $$ from team account and was almost sued by coach, same woman caused additional problems that split the team up in the end. And my son's 12U travel team, same thing happened: coaching problems and parental exhaustion. Folks take it hard. Parents are competitive for their kids.

Yes, I think it's inevitable in travel ball.

quote:

I was the sour-puss on the pool deck that night when I said, "you know, this is GREAT...but we will never be together through HS...in fact, it will begin to split apart from here forward and some of you will not like some others of you in just another year or so."

It sounds like Justbaseball sat back, enjoyed the ride, and understood the realities. Baseball, like any other part of our lives evolves, and as our lives evolve things happen. As a result we have memories, some are good, some not so good.

Real friendships are built on who you are, and not what you do, and as a result we often have to move on to a new chapter with a new cast of characters.

Boy, have I experienced this same situation myself with my son's teams. I have had the same thoughts, some of my closest friends have come from baseball...but at the same time some of my worst "enemies" are from baseball too.

This past summer when at a friend's house for his younger sons' travel baseball team, the parents were all sitting around talking about how great it is going to be to see these kids progress through the years and "gel" as a team. I just took it all in. On the way home that night made the comment that those parents are in for a rough time if they think the team will be together forever. Wouldn't you know, at the end of the summer many issues and problems with parents.

Parents are extremely competitive and always look for something better for their child - the old saying "the grass is always greener on the other side" comes to mind. In my experiences over the years, those who leave very good teams for something better often times find it's not always "greener" on the other side.

Unfortunately, I do believe it is inevitable. I've seen it happen time and time again.

The "shelf-life" of a tournament team is, on average, 9 months. Usually the really bad and the really good are the quickest to break up. The reasons why are innumerable.

And that's the way it is.

I can relate and I am sure everyone else can.

All players and parents become close, sort of like an extension of your family, and you know what happens sometimes with family!

I think eventually what begins as a true team effort becomes an issue of ego in the end.

I have seen this several times. I live in an area with about 20-25 Elite teams. They seem to be in turmoil every couple years.
Our provincial team separated from the governing body (Ontario Baseball)and incorporated the name. They had some success fora few years and then lost all their players. Our Elite players were banned from the provincial youth team and it became a very weak team. a couple years ago the youth team opened up to the Elite players and it onve again became a powerful team. The team that left OBA had to merge with another Elite team but is no where near what they used to be. Lots of enemies made.
My son's former Elite team has gone through 2 major evolutions and are in the middle of one right now. Usually unhappy parents/players break into groups and cause a split. I have always refused to get involved but somehow you seem to get dragged into it.
I have seen a parent get coaches fired inorder to take over a team because their kid was cut the year before. He claimed that the former head coach only chose his son's friends and then he went and did the same thing. He got fired half way through the year. He destroyed the team and was quickly dispatched. What a war that created. parents hating kids and other parents. Unfortunately my son was invoved with that team. The new coach called him up to play for them and the hate was intense. One game they were getting mercied and the coach needed a pitcher. I heard the coaches say my son was the only one available and I could see they were afraid to put him out. They had no choice so out he went and struck out the side. The parents were furious and he sat on the bench for the rest of the game. Thank god for the mercy rule. My wife sat in the car for the whole game and heard the parents talking about us when they didn't know she was there. Some of these parents smile in your face but we never forgot them. We again kept our mouths shut. This coach had cut 8 of the best players from a very good AAA rookie ball team.
I could go on for hours about things I have seen. I learned a ong time ago to not get involved with parents other than on a hi how are you basis. We have known some great parents. Some still email me even after a couple of years. I stay out of the politics.

Can't tell you how many parents left looking for greener pastures...and came back...and left again. Heck, I got stuck with the whole thing when the original coach took his two "stars" and joined a play for pay team. (He later led a parent revolt and took over that team.) We had a mediocre team and were looking to be on the better side of mediocre but weren't trying to compete with the only in it to win teams. Of course some parents thought we ought to be dumping the weaker players (bit of disagreement about who those were ) and some thought we weren't giving their kids enough playing time in the right positions. No matter what they say or believe each and every parent is in it to get the best deal for their kid, and their kid alone. The same problems exist everywhere, it is just the nature of the beast. Unfortunately, it can take a long time to learn that and not take it personally. One of the silver linings around my son's injury was that it gave me a good excuse to disband the team after a fairly successful final tournament, beating the play for pay team in the semis.

The funny thing is that you end up with the same group of parents come HS.

justbaseball, So true. Is it inevitable? It doesn't have to be --- but it probably is. I have heard it said that putting together a highly competitive baseball team that it's like putting a bunch of thoroughbred stud horses in the same stall. But then I guess things like this happen because of our human nature. After all it has been going on for centuries --- Et tu, Brute?
Fungo

Success breeds greed and after a while it all goes downhill.

Lack of success breeds discontent. 'Nuff said.

When I went to holland this past summer my team won the Bronze Medal!

The first line of Tolstoy’s novel “Anna Karenina” says it all. “Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”

There are so many elements that must all come together to create a winning team and the absence of any one of them can bring it all tumbling down. This is not unique to youth baseball. Enjoy the good times for what they are but don’t be surprised when they end. Pick up the pieces and start building again. It is a recurring cycle of life.

The funny thing about this situation that I have experienced through two kids is that if it were left it to the kids they would still be playing together. The parents often are the reason for the split.

This summer half my younger son's team left and the kids still get along and play pick up games together. Parents have cursed each other. Having been down this road, all I could do was sit back and watch.

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Originally posted by deldad:
The funny thing about this situation that I have experienced through two kids is that if it were left it to the kids they would still be playing together. The parents often are the reason for the split.

Yep!

It's been my experience that a team is "good" /fun for two years--and then it falls apart in a hurry.

But boys baseball is NOTHING repeat NOTHING like girls softball. Girls softball is nuts. And the parents are unbelievably vicious. It's sick.

Travel ball is all relative to the age group and who the coaches are

I have found it is great running a program where I have none of my own kids playing for more years than I can count and it is a great sense of freedom

I stopped coaching my guys at the AGE OF 12

Good point TR, it has been my experience also that if no dads are coaching things run a little better.

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JB...

I'll continue my rant from the another baseball website we were just on together...

In the end the problem is an adult thing: PROI. Parental Return On Investment. Payoff for the parents.

Kid fun, teamwork, life lessons, trips with the team, player development, wins and even a starring role are seldom enough ROI for parents. They always need more....

Will also echo TR...Have spent 30 years coaching youth in a variety of sports professionally...as a result of what I saw I did everything I could not to coach my own sons teams. Believe that the lessons both positive a negative that they learned from coaches who were NOT me were invaluable to their development as players and people.

44
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On the dad-coach thing...I've seen it both ways. I've seen THAT be a problem...and I've seen it still collapse with outside coaches who I think are just fine.

I think in the end it comes down to a bunch of other things. In other words, take the dad out of the equation and they'll find something else.

quote:

Parents are extremely competitive and always look for something better for their child - the old saying "the grass is always greener on the other side" comes to mind. In my experiences over the years, those who leave very good teams for something better often times find it's not always "greener" on the other side.

The grass may be greener on the other side, but there's usually a septic tank underneath.

same thing happens all the time,all over.the thing that stands out to me is it doesn't happen to the kids,it happens to the parents.

i posted some years ago that parents suck.it was right after one of these team meltdowns.and i was put in my place quickly by some old timers.and maybe a used to broad a brush to paint that picture.but it was the parents that started the in fighting the backstabbing etc..maybe it's like beer goggles.only they're called kid goggles let's you see what you want.

I have seen the good and I have seen the bad. I have travelled to Colorado in a van and singing songs with kids and I also have explained to my son why a certain parent was yelling at a coach because of a position change. I have met more people and have become friends with them through baseball and I have also met sour people with sour grapes wondering why little johnny isn't playing SS( well little Johnny makes too many errors!).

I took all of it with a grain of salt and also kept everything in perspective. The bottomline in the end is , did travelball prepare your kid for HighSchool? If so, like in my case, Mission Accomplished!!!!!

All the trophies, accolades, and notoriety doesn't mean **** if it didn't prepare them for HighSchool Ball.

This story rings true for me and when my little guy goes through the same path I will be well prepared!

If parents could only act as grown ups.....

I don't think it is just about parents. I have seen lots of players act up and drag their parents into the mess. The team dosen't even have to be successful to have these issues.
If parents are to be blamed it is about not preparing their son for what he will face in a competetive sport where only 9 can take the field at a time. Coaches will have their go to guys and the kid has to realize this as well as the parents.
I tried to prepare my son for the downs of the game and never got involved with the issues that inevitably would occure. I took him to the game and said see you later. Sat in the stands and we didn't talk till after the game. Generally I told him I would never lie to him about his skill level and called it the way I saw it. I have seen him upset only a couple times over the years which was quite out of charater. He actually would get mad if I ever interfered even at a young age. To this day it always amazed me how he handled some of the things he had to deal with. The times I was upset I left the ball diamond before I let it go. Thinking back I left qite a few times over the years.

Nothing is really inevitable. We've been through it all, jealous parents, manipulative coaches, Little League, Babe Ruth, high school ball, and elite travel teams. But from each experience we learned - not to be jaded and expect the worst, but to enjoy our son playing baseball with the best group of players we could find. I always tell my wife and son to "take the high road" when faced with politics or jealousy (and that has happened big time). The problems of travel ball have been well catalogued in this segment, and are undeniable, but if your son has improved and matured as a player as a result of his experience, and you have remembered it is about him and not you, it is all good. The friends and relationships we have made out on the circuit are genuine. Once you realize each parent is looking for the same thing, you can learn a little something from each conversation. Although we did not stay with the same travel team year after year, now I enjoy running into parents who I've sat with in summers gone by, and catching up on their son, even though we are no longer on the same team. Doesn't anyone else do this? My advice is to enjoy the heck out of this experience. It will be gone sooner than you think.

Brod that is absolutely correct.
I often sat with the opponents from out of town and didn't say who I was even if my son was on the mound. Interesting conversations and perspectives.
I ran into people I met all over the US and Canada at various tournaments. It was great. We survived.

baseball mom
absolutely right if it prepared our kids for high school ball it did its job.

brod
i made lot of friends during those summers had a ton of fun.but the wheels still fell of the bus for some .that was my point.all things being equal we would do it again.

This is a topic that I find particularly interesting since I've been involved with travel ball for 6 years. We started a Sandy Koufax league team back in 2001 and that morphed into a Mickey Mantle team and then Connie Mack. Now, we have an 18u Connie Mack team, as well as 2 different 16u teams. Along the way we lost a few players due to the conflicts mentioned previously and lost a few friendships with parents who weren't happy with the role of their son on the team. In those cases, it always seemed to be their son wasn't the central focus of the team to the degree they wanted. We were very up-front when we started the team that we would try at all costs to avoid daddy-ball, not play favorites and do what we thought was best for the overall team. We also lost a few players over time who realized that they weren't a good fit for the teams and left to play elsewhere, though these were generally exceptions. Over the years, I think we've done a a pretty good job of not playing daddy ball and now I'm at the point where some of these kids have just finished their sixth and final summer playing with us. Now, I get to watch them play college ball, and I consider many of the boys and their parents to be friends. I still correspond via email with many of the boys who're now in college, and enjoy running into the parents from time to time.

I think the key to making it work well is to clearly explain your philosophy and goals from the outset, and then stick to it. I think its also good to ask the parents what their expectation are at the beginning to eliminate any problems and have an understanding of what they are looking for. That doesn't guarantee you won't have problems, but I think it helps lessen them. Also, as the age group moves up, the problems tend to become less and less. I think the absolute easiest age group to coach in many respects is the 18u level, as the parents are all pretty laid back by then, the boys are more mature and understand very well what their roles are and where they fit in with a team. With three teams and approximately 60 players this past summer, the only parents who expressed conerns, with only one single exception, were the parents of our youngest team, and within that group, only from parents who sent their kid to a certain school. The only conversations I had with parents of players on our 18s team about their sons had to do with "my son is having a little trouble with this or that, can you give him a little extra work on that in practice?" Maybe part of why there are so few problems at the older age level is that the players know where they stand and have informed their parents, or possibly because they know where they are going to college and the parents don't feel the pressure of jr. needing that "big scholarship to Stanford, USC or wherever" any longer. Never mind that jr. had no shot at that school anyway.

My personal opinion is that if you're going to be involved with travel baseball long term, you are going to be most successful if your own son isn't on the team you're coaching (even though I wouldn't trade the memories I have with my own son for anything)and that if you are a parent who isn't involved in coaching or administering the team, to just relax and realize that even if you think the world is going to end if your son doesn't bat third and play shortstop when he's 15, that in the end it will probably all work out OK, if you'll just sit back, relax and enjoy every day of it. These are some of the greatest years of a kid's life, as well as the parents if they'll just take a deep breath and enjoy it. Remember, nobody is going to remember your kids failures when he was 14-16 years old, especially if he has success later on. They will survive, as will most of the parents even if it doesn't feel that way sometimes along the way.

The single best piece of advice I could offer to any parent of a travel ball player would be to take the high road and always represent yourself in a manner which you wouldn't be embarassed about later on. At the older age levels, you never know who is watching your kid and if you act in a manner that reflects poorly on your family, you may influence the opportunities your son does or doesn't have to move on.

I was a parent on that baseball team with justbaseball, and I just have to say that thank GOODNESS he and his son stayed on the original team with us--we would have fallen apart without his assistant coaching and Erik's pitching and the family's "mascot" status . Even when Erik went on to national teams, they still played with us when they could, and we were grateful for it. He put loyalty I think first and we benefited from it.

And it's true, I still resent the ones who left--really, not so much because of the fact that they left, but because of the way it was done, and how graceless they were. Teams can split up, or evolve, without making things worse by making it secretive, "in/out" groups, backroom gossip and criticism, etc.

Oh now...come on Bordeaux...you and your family were a BIG reason we stuck with it.

And as I've told you before...of all the kids from that team...so very glad yours still remains a teammate to this day.

And we feel the same way, of course--that feeling of knowing there will always be an understanding and supportive person in the stands....PM on its way.

You cannot just blame the players and parents. There is plenty of blame to go around and some of it has to go to certain coaches. Yes I have seen certain parents that are not realistic about Johnny’s ability, and I have seen certain players with sour attitudes and huge egos, but I have also seen the coaches with the agendas.

Those agendas can range from the coach using the team and playing time as a scouting/recruiting tool for a local college, to playing players from his high school, to playing relatives and their buddies, to repaying promises for joining the team, to trying to make extra money by adding a “few” too many players. All these things reduce some boys playing time and development and in the end will cause problems as they don’t necessarily award ability with equitable playing time.

The travel teams that I have seen that have been able to weather the storms are the ones that are part of a big name program that can replace the turnover, or the ones with coaches that are in it for the right reasons, which is to help the boys develop and thus they keep their roster at a comfortable level and with the right mix (positions) of players.

In the end some turnover is probably inevitable in any program as playing time and fit are always going to be a driving force. After all if a boy isn’t seeing the desired playing time they should probably seek a team where they fit better and I don’t always see that as a bad thing. Remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and even the good coaches (college and travel team) may just be looking for different things and award playing time or recruit accordingly. Some may want all their players to mash the ball and reward them with playing time over others that make a few less errors but get less hits, others may want slick fielding rocket arms and reward them with playing time even though they may not hit quite as well or get as many RBIs as that hitter that may make a few more errors, or another coach may want speed-speed and more speed to fill the base paths and the gaps and figures he can get on base with bunts/walks/errors and that his teams speed will make up for any other short comings.

I guess I have just got a little numb to this team evolution thing over the years.