The Johnny Manziel Dilemma

The NCAA has lots of ill-conceived rules and senseless regulations...but the players know the rules and they know the consequences. Pretty dumb on his part if he accepted $$$.

How do you think the NCAA will prove he accepted cash? If he never put it into a bank account it will be difficult to prove since there no video of him accepting payments.

NCAA doesn't  allow a player to sign for others to make a profit.

But they allow the players names/numbers to be on shirts and make plenty of money from selling them.

The NCAA recently disabled the search tab on their merchandise website where one could search "Johnny Manziel" and it would take you to #2 Texas AM football jerseys.

 

Honestly I think you are giving him too much credit.  I think he's just some super athletic immature kid who nobody has told to grow up because of that athleticism.  Not sure where I got this from (probably something I saw on ESPN a few weeks ago before this broke when he left / got kicked out of the Manning QB camp) his dad said something along the lines of he was worried for his son and his drinking.  My question is - has the dad / mom sat him down and had a serious talk with him?  I'm 39 years old and a very big guy but when my 69 year old mom who is all of 5'4 gives me that look and says my first and middle name I know when to shut my mouth and do as she says.  I don't think Johnny Football has this relationship with his parents and it's going to cost him eventually.

As for the NCAA I used to be a die hard don't pay them because they get free education / perks but I'm not sure that is enough.  I don't believe that college athletes should be paid outright but there has to be some sort of compensation.  Definitely need revamp that whole rule book.  I wonder when the last time anyone at the NCAA actually sat down and read the whole thing front to back just to see how many rules could be tossed / overhauled because society has progressed past them?

Two cents worth of musing from a Texan:

 

Did he do it for the money? Yep. Wads of hundred-dollar bills he earned on his own are far more attractive than the credit card in his pocket that links to Dad's impressive bank account. 

 

Was it done to challenge the NCAA?  Nope. That would assume a level of awareness and intelligence he's shown no evidence of having.

 

Wasn't there any thought that what he was doing could hurt a whole team, a whole program? Not at all. This is a young man who has yet to learn that his actions have consequences on others. I hope he realizes this soon.

 

What will Texas A&M do with the season beginning just weeks from now? Lay low and hope this goes quietly away.

 

My take is he didn't take any money directly.  All cash flowed to Uncle Nate.  He was the money launderer...received everything and paid for everything.  Because he falls under the "preexisting relationships" clause in NCAA rules, it makes it impossible to penalize Manziel unless deposits can be traced.  Brokers are not going to cooperate with the NCAA as it would end their business.  NCAA can't demand anything with no subpoena power......maybe Johnny is smarter than the NCAA.

The linked article below tells a lot about why the kid is an idiot.  His parents have trained him to be one.  As a Texan and an Aggie, I would prefer a losing season to having him back. 

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/st...season-espn-magazine

 

Regarding the question of whether some college athletes should be paid, I am against it.  These athletes are not victims just because they make money for the school and NCAA, ESPN, etc.  The best athletes get the opportunity of a free education and room & board at a minimum.  Sure they have worked hard, but to generate revenue for a big program, you have to be born talented. Just because the school and NCAA make money off of the program that the athlete is a part of does not entitle him or her to any of the money.

Neither Manziel nor the NCAA show any signs of common sense/intelligence, so I could care less either way.

 

According to TX-Husker (reliable source!) the athletes have found a way to skirt the NCAA and their crack team of investigators.  Reminds me of the Cam Newton fiasco a few years ago.  Remember, Cam's father was acting as a proxy with an agent who was talking to the coaches with his empty extended hand?  I guess if you win a Nat'l Championship or Heisman Trophy they try sweep it under the rug.  But if this was anyone else the NCAA would crucify them.

 

What I am curious to see is how Manziel's talents are valued in a few years at the next level.   Who drafts him?  Al Davis passed away, so who does that leave?   Yes, Jerry Jones unless the Cowboys brain trust can talk him out of it.  That will be interesting.

Oxymoron!

For sure Manziel has shown boatloads of poor judgement.  The Newton thing was a very different story.  Here, you have guys who paid an athlete, or someone close to the athlete.  But those guys won't talk because they know it's a business killer.  If everything stayed in cash, there's no paper trail.  And from his travel and event agenda, there's probably little to no cash left to find anyway.  This is going to be a very difficult thing to prove...especially since the NCAA has no subpoena power.

 

My prediction is nothing happens.  Even if some fragment of proof is found, his lawyers will drag it out till aTm is out of the SEC championship race.  I think Manziel will have a very average year (especially compared to last year).  He'll say I'm outta here and head to a short lived NFL career.

Until TMZPN has actual evidence this story is a joke. Those calling Manziel immature must have forgotten what it was like to be a 20 year old college student.
I hate his selfish acts of going to concerts, nba final games and hanging with celebrities. How dare he use his money to attend events. He should lock himself in his room and do nothing but study and maybe leave for bible study.
Just curious why does a leaving early a volunteer off season camp on his own time and dime is some national story. The build up and tear down and jealousy is pathetic. 
His scholarship is in exchange for him playing football. Not to give up his name and likeness. The NCAA and schools should have no right to make a dime off of those. Make money off him during games. Otherwise pay the players what is owed to them. It is flat out dishonesty for everyone to make money off a players name, signature and likeness except for the player. They get scholarships to play their sport; period. Nothing more.

Yep, Johnny's just your average run of the mill 20 year old college student.  Say hello to Johnny for us, Mr. Manziel. 

The Brent Musburgers of the world made this kid a celebrity.  The Heisman gives him the profile to launch a lucrative career.

 

While he is not yet supposed to be earning money, that doesn't mean he isn't keeping his profile high so that, as soon as he's eligible, he can make as much as possible.

 

There are professional consultants who teach this.  If your son were where Manziel is, you'd be doing this too.  It's just sound financial management.  He doesn't know what his NFL career will look like.  Maybe he's the next RGIII, maybe he's the next Ryan Leaf.  Either way he'll have to strike while the iron is hot. 

 

The prototype for this is Brian Bosworth.  No one made more money being a college star/mediocre NFL player than that guy.  He was amazing in how well he cashed in on his celebrity.  He understood full well that his time on the stage could be short, but he turned it into a lifetime of wealth. 

 

I have yet to see any evidence that Manziel broke the rules.  If and when that surfaces, he'll have to exit college ball.  Until then, he's doing what can be done within the boundaries. 

And BTW, the NCAA announced last week that it would stop making money off selling players' likenesses to the video game industry.  Jerseys are not far behind.  The NCAA President explained the move by saying he agreed that the NCAA's stances were sending conflicting messages so they were cutting their profiteering, at least somewhat.

jonny football has broken the rules---I  donot agree with the rulehes but he broke them---  and he spoiled kid is heading towards self destruction

I have got a question for all of you. Do you want to see Manziel play this season or not?

TR,
Please point us to the rules he broke or do you always slander people?

I don't know nut in bout breakin no rules, but I do know he a great ball player. WOO HOO!!! Suit 'em up! We got a champion chip to win boyz!

Think about his case in reverse.  Johnny flew to Miami for the finals and had court side seats.  He and his family have talked about how they have been blessed financially.  It should be pretty easy for them to prove they paid for the hotel, airfare, court side seats out of their own accounts right?  If it was paid for in cash, they should be able to prove where the cash came from.  You and I could prove it through our financial records.  As far as I know, they have yet to volunteer that....wonder why? 

there is proof he made money for signimg autographs----  when his own father states that he is worried about his son ---that tells me something

 

Wow that article is brutal - imo the most revealing part is waiting backstage when the dad kicks jm's friends in the - y'all just have to read that part. 

 

jm is at the top of the heap in many categories, but very often athletes may not even have the resources to purchase appropriate clothing for travel etc. I do not have an issue with working out a way to make sure the young people who are making schools and the ncaa so much money have a share. 

 

Something's not right here, and to someone who has so much money, seems like the projected value of what he probably pocketed is peanuts.  Poor Ohio State, they got buried for t-shirts! 

 

 

So he has to prove he is innocent while those who have made accusations don't have to prove anything. Makes sense to me

Yeah that article is pretty damning for the dad. He was kicked off and banned from 2 websites for threatening to fight and kill people and then same thing using someone else's account.
He says worried about son drinking but buys him drinks?  A lunatic

No, he doesn't have to.  But if he wanted to he could.  If he was tired of the stories out there, he could put an end to them pretty easily if he wanted to.  He either doesn't want to put an end to them, or he can't because he used cash from the signings to pay for his calendar of events. 

It's the NCAA that has to make a case. They seem to make cases of coaches buying doughnuts, but look the other way when fake classes are involved. Who knows what they will do. Personally, the NCAA appears to exists to benefit the NCAA, and not the student athlete. They need to make some changes, but then again, why should they? What a great gig!

He could deny all he wants but look how TMZPN went after the Duke Lacrosse players even after they proclaimed their innocence. I would tell them nothing bc the main reporter Rovell has been caught lying several times (google him) so why trust them with the truth.
If NCAA asks for bank records he is required to turn them over. So no problem there. But in the eyes if the jealous crowd he is guilty until he proves he didn't do it.

Even at my "advanced" age, I continue to learn on a daily basis.  I have learned quite a bit here on HSBBW.  In fact, a few years back, our own TPM helped me open my eyes a bit on being overly critical and quick to judge the actions of young athletes in the spotlight.

 

Even with that in mind, there is way too much that doesn't fly at all with me regarding Johnny M and the parenting methods of his folks.  You bring your kid to the local country club, he flings his clubs and you continue to bring him back? ..and then, again and again and again?   You sit at a dinner table and son tells his aunt to shut the F up and you allow it?  In spite of his continued mis-steps, you constantly blame the university, the media and the NCAA for the problems of your son?  As another pointed out, you worry about his drinking problem and you buy him drinks?  Sorry, this is wrong, wrong, wrong. 

 

I understand that a lot of kids will struggle with many issues growing from boys to men.  I understand the exponential difficulty when you are in the public eye.  I understand that some parents will do a great job, only to have problems with their kids anyway, while other parents make terrible decisions and their kids come out great.  I understand there are questions about the way the NCAA is run.  But, make no mistake.  This whole thing is about a kid making very bad decisions on a regular basis and a parent who is not helping at all.

I am kind of with you on this one cabbagedad. There is no excuse for his behavior or his parents as well.

That article didn't really help his situation.

 

The honor bestowed upon him holds the winner to a different set of standards, I feel his parents have done a poor job in guiding him (yes 20 year old Heisman trophy winners still need guidance), but probably not really understanding the fame it would bring with no opportunity for any fortune, that's too bad. Perhaps the NCAA needs to do a better job at educating recipients, their family and their coaches. Who and what they need to stay away from. I do understand the conflict this presents, the coach gets a nice raise and the player doesn't even get his trophy.

 

NCAA needs to seriously readdress the issues that they are being confronted with year after year on amateurism, it is a different time we live in.  I have seen grown men chase down pro athletes to get an autograph, only to sell them on ebay a few days later, even without being certified and authenticated.   I know that has to bother many. 

 

Perhaps some type of monetary award would erase some of the temptations that obviously could hurt the player's amateur status as well as the team's season.

 

Whatever it be, this incident means that your son, if he goes to an NCAA program may never be able to sign an autograph for anyone unless it is with the entire team.

 

Perhaps the people who vote will think twice about awarding it to someone so young. 

 

As to the question asked, no, I don't really want him to see him play. The whole thing would be a distraction to the other players and that isn't really fair and it could jeopardize their future as well.

 

Yes, he made money and the NCAA promptly stopped selling players jersey's and other merch because of the obvious hypocrisy of doing so. They hope we forget they have been pimping these kids for decades. As far as his dad goes, I know you don't believe everything written in the sports section, but it makes a good story.

 

 

First, as my screen name suggest, I'm an Aggie. Here are two posts (not by me) from an Aggie board that sum up the feelings and point of view of many Aggies.
I know these post don't address the misguided actions of a 20 year old or the immature and ill prepared people he and his family have surrounded him with.  Until there is concrete proof and not hearsay, I'll withhold judgement.

Post 1
The thing is, I don't know what really happened so I don't have an opinion yet. I do suspect that there are several agendas at play here, and most of them are less focused on getting at the truth than they are simply taking advantage of the situation for selfish reasons.Rovell may be the only guy on the planet who could take lessons from Johnny on when you should just stay off of Twitter. Based on his own tweets, a picture is slowly emerging of a reporter with a personal vendetta who was his own original source. On one hand, he said the story was initiated by someone who was upset over Johnny's off the field behavior, and on the other, he insisted that the brokers didn't come to him first. HE WENT TO THEM. I think he was the one who sought out the brokers and dealers, possibly with a threat of going with a big story about fraud in the memorabilia business, and then giving them the option of ratting on Johnny to keep the fraud story from coming out. And somewhere along the line, the gamblers got tipped off. This is a much bigger story than just Johnny, but to Rovell, the only story is Johnny. Johnny, on the other hand, may have put himself in a vulnerable spot to let all these scumbags do their dirty work. As I said, I don't know how much or how little he actually did. I just know that when these memorabilia dirtbags and the gamblers and a self serving hack reporter or two get involved, there is a huge story simmering below the surface, and even if Johnny walked into NCAA headquarters and demanded all their money, he would probably still be the cleanest of all the principals involved.

Post 2
Data compiled highly suggests that multiple big name college athletes signed large, sequential quantities of memorabalia (authentication data retrieved and organized).NCAA and blowhard "journalists" have been pointing to fact that JFF has SO MANY authenticated, sequential autographed items out there that he MUST have been paid (as per anonymous sources).Our guys have basically proven that the same scenario exists regarding NUMEROUS items signed by, oh let's say J Clowney, B Miller, T Bridgewater, M Lee.Instead of leaking this to journalists, where it very well would be pushed under rug or discounted, the data has been forwarded to someone that knows how to present and make the NCAA squirm big time ("Do you really want the widespread autograph corruption to be exposed?").

TPM - You hit the nail on the head.   I think this topic should be rewritten to : The NCAA Dilemma (not the Johnny Manziel dilemma).   He (or his family) can plead ignorance or subvert the rules, or whatever it is that he does.  Maybe he plays this season, maybe not.  I don't care.  But the NCAA is supposed to be run by a bunch of smart guys whose number one purpose is to make money on behalf of all its member institutions, and continually fund more financial resources year after year.  Johnny Manziel is just one example of someone skirting the rules for the benefit of Johnny Manziel (not the member institutions).  The NCAA has some thinking to do or this is going to quickly become a free for all.

I am not sure that I believe that this is some spoiled kid who wanted some fame and fortune not related to his families business or money.  If it true that these guys gave him money to sign items they were going to sell and then ratted on him they are the lowest of the low. IMO.

 

I suppose the NCAA will figure it all out and in it's infinite way try to bury it as quickly as possible.  The school is the one with the dilemma, to play or not to play.

 

He is not the first we know who has challenged the system and he won't be the last.

It's time to start giving these kids monetary rewards for their achievements besides a 4 year scholarship.   Turning out a Heisman winner, an All American, is worth millions to a program...MILLIONS.  The old rules are just that, old.

 

I remember when son was in HS, college, people warned him not to go out to dinner with agents, people who could influence him or accept gifts. And not to accept reduced or free anything.  You guys don't actually think that this doesn't happen everyday, of course it does! In every sport!!!!  How many of your sons ever got reduced fees or NO fees to play on a team or a showcase, while the poor kid that never will get that  D1 scholarship paid his way in full?  Isn't that against NCAA rules?

 

I used to feel differently, but after hearing so many stories over the past several years I have changed my mind, it has become a joke.  You can't keep making tons of money off of these players (that goes for everyone), you just can't do it anymore.