Everyone appreciates the side by side videos
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Speak for yourself.
Many like to search for the truth.
And you're welcome to "not enjoy it".
I suggest you ignore topics you're not interested in.
Many like to search for the truth.
And you're welcome to "not enjoy it".
I suggest you ignore topics you're not interested in.
quote:Many of the gifts needed to be a polished hitter came the day the player was born.
Very true......
We are ALL born with these gifts, not just some of us.......That's what I think you don't seem to understand....
And, I must admit, many baseball players don't understand this, also.....If they would use these gifts in the right way, they would become much better hitters....
To think that your son has the hitting gift and someone else's son doesn't is, well, you figure it out...... 
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:
Speak for yourself.
Many like to search for the truth.
And you're welcome to "not enjoy it".
I suggest you ignore topics you're not interested in.
The very best hitting coaches start with what the player brings to the table. Some experts say head-to-toe that there are 125 aspects to the MLB successful swing, and that it takes 7 years to perfect it to the point of failing 7 out of 10 times.
You guys are tunneled in on less than 1 % of the equation. PG has it pegged pretty good.
A naturally born hitter can be turned into a great one.
A good hitter can improve to be more consistent
An average hitter can get better, somewhat depending on his athletic abilities.
A weak hitter has a long way to go. Those are your bread and butter money-makers..........no offense.
As they say, " you can't make steak out of chopped liver"
Don't get mad. Examine your motives.
Then when you are done with that, that player better have fielding skills, running skills, a great arm, and a 6th tool, passion.
You related to TR?
Chameleon,
You have a PM.
You have a PM.
Slugger,
Why would you think that someone revealing an aspect of the swing that could help countless individuals to reach their goals in hitting or to move to a higher level to be a bad thing?
Why would you think that someone revealing an aspect of the swing that could help countless individuals to reach their goals in hitting or to move to a higher level to be a bad thing?
The best hitters come to the game with their own style, often considered unorthodox.
The best that the supposed experts produce is the .250 hitter and this is bourne out by stats over the years.
A player could have ten tools, but I'll take the player with two or three that knows how to win.
.
The best that the supposed experts produce is the .250 hitter and this is bourne out by stats over the years.
A player could have ten tools, but I'll take the player with two or three that knows how to win.
.
Sorry guys, too busy calling the Tribe pitches, but Wedge won't listen.
In the meantime, go squish the bug
In the meantime, go squish the bug
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:
Slugger,
Why would you think that someone revealing an aspect of the swing that could help countless individuals to reach their goals in hitting or to move to a higher level to be a bad thing?
BECAUSE YOU ALL THINK YOUR WAY IS THE ONLY WAY.
You guys can dissect your shoulder loads, rearward garbage, and all the crapola you want.
Tell me when a never-will-be shows up at your facility that you send him and his father home and tell them to save their $$$$$
The best advice I think I ever got was learn to speak Spanish and better run under 7 in the 60.
Think about that
old slugger....I guess you were born with either smarts or NOT. People are born thats a fact. Drawing out what was born within them is what this world we live in is all about. There are many many many big league hitters who have died and never even picked up a bat. No one ever drew out that untapped ability with in them. What even send your kids to school? is it just a 12 year day care until they turn 18/19? or are those teachers working at tapping the inner abilities of the brain and the way it was born.
You know there is more money in learning Japaneese.
Though I agree that no one style is right for all or that milking a parent is a respectable thing to do, there is some good information for those who can pick and choose what they can use.
Some guys who were deemed to be never will be's turned out to be in the Hall of Fame.
Yogi Berra and Wade Boggs come to mind right away.
.
Though I agree that no one style is right for all or that milking a parent is a respectable thing to do, there is some good information for those who can pick and choose what they can use.
Some guys who were deemed to be never will be's turned out to be in the Hall of Fame.
Yogi Berra and Wade Boggs come to mind right away.
.
oldslug says his son does take hitting lessons indicating he does have his own personal guru. So, I guess he just wants to impress that his son has exceptional athletic abililty.
He does. We know that. But, for the rest of the players who DON'T have his athletic ability, they need to maximize their knowledge to compensate for their lesser physical talent.
Slug, no need to look down at those not athletically gifted like your son, and those who are trying to help them. If this isn't for you...move on.
He does. We know that. But, for the rest of the players who DON'T have his athletic ability, they need to maximize their knowledge to compensate for their lesser physical talent.
Slug, no need to look down at those not athletically gifted like your son, and those who are trying to help them. If this isn't for you...move on.
quote:Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
BECAUSE YOU ALL THINK YOUR WAY IS THE ONLY WAY.
You guys can dissect your shoulder loads, rearward garbage, and all the crapola you want.
Tell me when a never-will-be shows up at your facility that you send him and his father home and tell them to save their $$$$$
The best advice I think I ever got was learn to speak Spanish and better run under 7 in the 60.
Think about that
A couple of things here. One, there is more than one way to travel from one part of the country too, but you have to decide what your goal is before you head out and what is the most efficient way to reach that goal.
Two, when I agree to work with a hitter, I tell them up front that they will get better. How much better depends on how hard they work without me being there. I give them things to work on (on their own) and I give them time to work on them before they come back. If they or I don't see progress, I do tell them I can't help them, because I know they didn't work on the things I gave them. It doesn't matter how hard they work while I'm there, because I can't be there during games or practices.
While being a big believer in natural ability, I still feel baseball is all about learning the best techniques possible.
I enjoy reading what people who study this stuff have to say. Always have been a student of the game and always will be.
I enjoy reading about both the physical and the mental side of hitting, pitching, etc.
What is good here is that we are all learning something by discussing this stuff. Even BD and Chameleon have stated they have changed their minds over the years. I believe that being willing and able to change your mind (adjust) is the most important aspect in learning or teaching baseball. We quit searching… We quit learning.
I’m 61 years old and can say that I have learned some things reading what “some” have to say here. It can be things you might have already known, or maybe not, but presented in a more precise language or description.
Just the other day, one of our scouts was working with his son in the cage. I don’t do hardly any instruction these days but the dad asked me to look at his kid. His kid will be a senior at a DII college and he was a starter the last two years.
Like most everyone here, I feel that there’s always something you can do to help a hitter. So I ended up spending about a half hour, maybe more, with the kid. I’ll be darned if I didn’t find myself using a few of Chameleon’s words to describe things to this hitter. This hitter was clearly understanding what was being said. After talking about and working on the “stretch” his exact words “That really makes a lot of sense” His dad, the scout, said “Everything you’ve said makes a lot of sense” Of course, I felt good, because when experienced player and experienced dad say something makes sense, you have accomplished something.
So… You really can teach an old dog, new tricks. But only if the old dog wants to learn them!
Don't consider myself a guru, but even the true Gurus had to learn things somehow.
I enjoy reading what people who study this stuff have to say. Always have been a student of the game and always will be.
I enjoy reading about both the physical and the mental side of hitting, pitching, etc.
What is good here is that we are all learning something by discussing this stuff. Even BD and Chameleon have stated they have changed their minds over the years. I believe that being willing and able to change your mind (adjust) is the most important aspect in learning or teaching baseball. We quit searching… We quit learning.
I’m 61 years old and can say that I have learned some things reading what “some” have to say here. It can be things you might have already known, or maybe not, but presented in a more precise language or description.
Just the other day, one of our scouts was working with his son in the cage. I don’t do hardly any instruction these days but the dad asked me to look at his kid. His kid will be a senior at a DII college and he was a starter the last two years.
Like most everyone here, I feel that there’s always something you can do to help a hitter. So I ended up spending about a half hour, maybe more, with the kid. I’ll be darned if I didn’t find myself using a few of Chameleon’s words to describe things to this hitter. This hitter was clearly understanding what was being said. After talking about and working on the “stretch” his exact words “That really makes a lot of sense” His dad, the scout, said “Everything you’ve said makes a lot of sense” Of course, I felt good, because when experienced player and experienced dad say something makes sense, you have accomplished something.
So… You really can teach an old dog, new tricks. But only if the old dog wants to learn them!
Don't consider myself a guru, but even the true Gurus had to learn things somehow.
The truth is, nobody has it right....
And, some of this stuff works pretty good even though it's not the best stuff.....
The best stuff works even better, though.....
Your job and my job is to figure out what is the best stuff.....
The test is, IMO, the best stuff is what MLB hitters do....So, by looking at the video which we all have, we can decide for ourselves what we see them doing...
And, some of this stuff works pretty good even though it's not the best stuff.....
The best stuff works even better, though.....
Your job and my job is to figure out what is the best stuff.....
The test is, IMO, the best stuff is what MLB hitters do....So, by looking at the video which we all have, we can decide for ourselves what we see them doing...
Gurus come up with differing views of what they see MLB hitters doing and argue incessantly about what they think they see....
This is good for us because it makes us think.....
So, is all the arguing necessary and positive???...I say a resounding, yes!
This is good for us because it makes us think.....
So, is all the arguing necessary and positive???...I say a resounding, yes!
Are we teaching and learning new things or are we just using new "buzz" words to describe what we have been doing for years?
I think the moment you quit learning you start losing ground on everyone else. I learn something new all the time, especially when I am out on the field. IMO the approach to hitting is always changing. By this I mean that there always people coming up with different ways to get to the same position. If you look at a lot of hitters from the 70s, for example, many started with closed stances. Why did they do this? To keep their front shoulder from flying open, among other things. Today, many hitters start with open stances. Why? To see the ball with both eyes. Who knows what it will be like 10 years from now. "Gurus" seem to be always looking for something like this.
From studying swings on video, I can see that the guys from the 70s, 80s, 90s, 30s or whenever all got into a similar position once their swing started. For me, the mechanics of the swing almost always stay the same (with MLB hitters). The styles, however, are ever changing.
I believe that when a guru tries to change a hitter's style, that hitter will suffer. IMO the key to working with a hitter is working within their style to develop their most consistent and efficient swing.
I know that almost 100% of all PGA Tour players have swing coaches. Call them gurus if you want, but Tiger Woods uses one and he does pretty well.
Again, golf is not baseball, but both have complex swings that I think should be studied. IMO golf has been ahead of the curve when it comes to studying video and really breaking down swings.
Some baseball players aren't too much into looking at their swing on video. That's fine, but IMO I get better by studying what I do during my swing on video.
The thing that some "gurus" get wrong in my opinion is the mental appraoch to hitting. Those who have never played can look at video and break it down all they want. However, IMO, if they have never been in the box against a guy that throws 98 with an 85mph curveball, it is tough to work with a hitter on what they should be thinking up there.
Overall, I can see where OLDSLUGGER8 is coming from. You cannot turn a kid who has no ability into a great hitter, IMHO. But you can make him better so he can reach his potential. That's why I say keep studying film. I don't think that trying to improve a kid's mechanics is a bad thing if you understand the mechanics of the swing. If a coach (or guru) can help to get a hitter into a better position, more power to them.
I just want to make sure that the mental approach to hitting does not get lost in all of this. You can teach mechanics all you want, but if you cannot help the hitter's thought process when he is in the box, you aren't as smart as you may think you are. Hitting is not only physical but also very very mental. The mental side needs to be worked on just as much, IMO.
From studying swings on video, I can see that the guys from the 70s, 80s, 90s, 30s or whenever all got into a similar position once their swing started. For me, the mechanics of the swing almost always stay the same (with MLB hitters). The styles, however, are ever changing.
I believe that when a guru tries to change a hitter's style, that hitter will suffer. IMO the key to working with a hitter is working within their style to develop their most consistent and efficient swing.
I know that almost 100% of all PGA Tour players have swing coaches. Call them gurus if you want, but Tiger Woods uses one and he does pretty well.
Again, golf is not baseball, but both have complex swings that I think should be studied. IMO golf has been ahead of the curve when it comes to studying video and really breaking down swings.
Some baseball players aren't too much into looking at their swing on video. That's fine, but IMO I get better by studying what I do during my swing on video.
The thing that some "gurus" get wrong in my opinion is the mental appraoch to hitting. Those who have never played can look at video and break it down all they want. However, IMO, if they have never been in the box against a guy that throws 98 with an 85mph curveball, it is tough to work with a hitter on what they should be thinking up there.
Overall, I can see where OLDSLUGGER8 is coming from. You cannot turn a kid who has no ability into a great hitter, IMHO. But you can make him better so he can reach his potential. That's why I say keep studying film. I don't think that trying to improve a kid's mechanics is a bad thing if you understand the mechanics of the swing. If a coach (or guru) can help to get a hitter into a better position, more power to them.
I just want to make sure that the mental approach to hitting does not get lost in all of this. You can teach mechanics all you want, but if you cannot help the hitter's thought process when he is in the box, you aren't as smart as you may think you are. Hitting is not only physical but also very very mental. The mental side needs to be worked on just as much, IMO.
GURU defined
A self proclaimed expert who professes his greatness for monetary gains.
A teacher of the game defined
A confident someone who has done all the work and studies and has arrived at what they believe to be the most efficient way to do something and will impart those beliefs to anyone who wants to improve without any monetary gains. They do it for the passion and the love of the game.
A self proclaimed expert who professes his greatness for monetary gains.
A teacher of the game defined
A confident someone who has done all the work and studies and has arrived at what they believe to be the most efficient way to do something and will impart those beliefs to anyone who wants to improve without any monetary gains. They do it for the passion and the love of the game.
I'm with PG on this one.
I enjoy reading the opinions presented here. Of course - many times - those opinions are presented as fact - and that is BS IMO.
They are just opinions.
During my years on this site - I would venture to say that you can read some good stuff in this forum - stuff that is interesting and helpful.
You will also read alot of nonsense - just mumbo jumbo - redescribing things people have known for years - but presented in a way to make it look different.
I sort of enjoy reading that garbage too - just because it is funny.
Regardless of what is presented here - you need to remember - you dont have to read any of it if you dont want to.
I enjoy reading the opinions presented here. Of course - many times - those opinions are presented as fact - and that is BS IMO.
They are just opinions.
During my years on this site - I would venture to say that you can read some good stuff in this forum - stuff that is interesting and helpful.
You will also read alot of nonsense - just mumbo jumbo - redescribing things people have known for years - but presented in a way to make it look different.
I sort of enjoy reading that garbage too - just because it is funny.
Regardless of what is presented here - you need to remember - you dont have to read any of it if you dont want to.
quote:Tell me when a never-will-be shows up at your facility that you send him and his father home and tell them to save their $$$$$
Personally I believe you bring up a very good point.
From where I stand, I have all the types of students you have referred to.
Gifted
Average
So-So
I charge nothing for kids to come over and hit.
Then I don't have to concern myself with taking money from the ones that are so-so (and maybe advance to average...)
The gifted ones don't need me, and I tell them that.
They, generally, are the hardest workers and ask for advice more often.
I give them reps and may notice things like a lack of a good load, just as an example.
They are also the kids that can adapt quicker to an enhancement.
One of the rewarding things is to take a kid that is average and work on mechanics along with the mental aspect. Confidence in the box with some "improved" (subjective) mechanics can help an average hitter have an
above average week-end which may
translate to a good month and possibly
a good season.
The confidence, when it begins to "snowball" can make some pretty amazing things happen.
So, again, I ask for no money and am happy to give my time to ---hopefully--- help.
I turn away no one.
Their dedication to coming over shows up in a short period of time. They either remain consistent at showing up for practice or they fade away.
Old Slugger,
I've seen the thing you describe many times, including at the local golf course where some just aren't (my opinion) going to reach the pinnacle (whatever that may be),,,but those people (golfers) do improve slightly and may have those few rounds where things really come together.
What happens from there is the confidence begins to build on itself and then players can exceed even what you (the instructor) thought was possible.
That is a happy day.
p.s. I do not profess to be a guru.
Just lots of study and enjoy talking about hitting.
quote:Originally posted by noreast:
oldslug says his son does take hitting lessons indicating he does have his own personal guru. So, I guess he just wants to impress that his son has exceptional athletic abililty.
He does. We know that. But, for the rest of the players who DON'T have his athletic ability, they need to maximize their knowledge to compensate for their lesser physical talent.
Slug, no need to look down at those not athletically gifted like your son, and those who are trying to help them. If this isn't for you...move on.
I suppose I have an issue with generalistic, cookie-cutter applications that don't apply to all these hitters, and kindly leave my son out of the equation.
You want to tinker with physical specifics of the swing, then gear them toward some kid who is capable of it, as long as you keep stressing that they will still probably fail 7 out of 10 times.
These advanced theories are great, but those who aren't physically capable need to lay the ground work to be able to eventually accomplish them.MAYBE
Let me remind again, I am posting, so direct responses to me.
Take the kid who wasn't born with the hitting gifts and develop those skills better before applying what you think works.
Grady Sizemore, our local hero, and one of those naturally born athletic hitters strikes out too much, but I would take him on my team anyday. Players like that would benefit more to these teachings than a 12 year old kid.
That was my point.
By the way, I love golf. Jim Furyk has an uglyass swing, unless you stillshot it at the point of impact. I am a fan of finding a way to get the job done successfully.
