The more I hear, the more I despise "the process..."

But the parents did step in, and wouldn't let him commit without going across the country to visit. Why didn't they go 5 weeks ago? 

This is a second hand story.

IMO it wasn't meant to be. They were waiting for him to accept their offer, he didn't so they need to move on and realize that this is a business and in this business you don't sit on an offer.

Yea, I agree with TPM. This is a business, a hard business. If the school was at the top of kids list, then the parents definitely drug their feet getting visit set up. If the school is not one of kids top choices, then just keep working hard and good things should happen. Usually once you get that first offer, others tend to follow.

What parents let a kid commit to a school across the country sight unseen?  Could they have gone quicker? I guess.  IMO this is a case of a school telling two kids they have money but only have money for one, and either wanted the other guy or didn't care which they wrapped up.  That should tell you something anyway.

 

Unless you're the blue chipper, the process is not a lot of fun.

My son wss a blue chipper and he got sn offer from Auburn but the coach called before we left to tell us he gave the money away. This was after chasing him down all summer. I realize now he had also offered two at the same time. I think if son really wanted to committ he would have asked to go sooner.
I know its crappy what happened, they didnt want him to committ too quickly as they were waiting for the other player. Same thing in sons situation.

I stand corrected, the process is not a lot of fun for anyone

I have a couple stories that would probably get me banned if told...

Some similar discussion going on in this thread and the "recruiting situation" thread.  I think it is important for players and parents to realize that schools typically are working on filling a position with several options being pursued simultaneously.  Dialog from the school is going to be mostly positive "we want you" until they land one of the ones they want.  They can't afford to pursue one player, wait for everything to work out or not and then start pursuing another.  They need to try to land one of the best players they can before those players commit elsewhere.  They want leverage, options and backup options.  While it is often suggested here to take your time, sit on the offer and make sure it's the best choice, one needs to realize that the schools need to know if they should be moving on.  Not saying it is a good business practice but I can see where schools will get caught in situations where they have to go the direction of a definitive accepted offer even when they may have a few other outstanding offers for the same spot.  Further, I would think this is more likely to happen at the D1 level where there are fewer fish in the pond, stronger competition and a shorter window of opportunity.

 

As far as the statement about parents staying out, I don't believe the general dialog here is for parents to stay out of the recruiting process.  I've heard consensus that they should stay out of playing time issues (HS and college) and that players should take the lead on the legwork with recruiting and conduct conversations with RC's and coaches but the parents should definitely be involved with the recruiting process as far as knowing what status is, making sure the financial pieces are in place, making sure the right choices are being made for the right reasons and otherwise advising.  This would certainly include weighing whether an offer should be accepted and making sure player knows what deadlines may be in place.  Trying to read between the lines with school dialog is certainly not always an exact science.  And even if you read correctly, things are very fluid. 

It is important to understand the coach's perspective.

The further you get past the very few truly elite players, the more roughly comparable players there are at each successive gradation. Players get interchangeable fairly quickly as you work down the pecking order.

One coach who made an offer to my son answered the "How long is this offer good for?" question by saying none of his offers have time limits. However, none of his offers have guarantees beyond a few days, either.  He said he never assumes a player will commit until the player actually does commit, so he keeps recruiting as long as he has money available. If he makes you an offer, that's what he thinks you're worth, but other players are also worth that amount and if one of them accepts first, the offer might not be there for you.

It was a hard truth, but I respected him for his frankness. That truth applies at a lot of schools whose coaches aren't so frank, too.

A hard lesson to learn but probably more common than you think.  If the coach is going to do this to a recruit (when coaches put their best foot forward and on their best behavior) it makes you wonder how players will be treated once they are part of the program.  Buyer beware.

These offers aren't full rides are they?  So aren't you competing every year for the same of reduced scholarship?  

The problem I see of committing is maybe not finding out how much academic money is available.  

My son knows that the best school for him is the one that offers the most academic money.  The piece of paper, after about 10 years in the workforce, is all the same. 

Step right up son have we got a deal for you...

Welcome to the world of college recruiting. 

It is important to understand the coach's perspective.

^^^^

This.

 

After our older son committed, we heard through the grapevine that 2 kids from another part of our state stopped getting the lovey-dovey phone calls.  In other words, his school filled their need.

 

Do I feel bad about it?  I'm sure it hurt/stung those other players, but nope, I did not feel bad about it.  I understood what the coaches' jobs were and we responded accordingly with a quick commitment after the offer and it worked out great for our son...and later his younger brother.

 

Maybe we got lucky?  Or maybe we did our homework?  5 weeks is a long time to wait in today's recruiting world...it was a long time to wait 10 years ago, its even longer now.

 

Understand the process.  Make your moves (e.g. visit sooner?  visit later?) with that understanding and live with the consequences.  IMO, there is nothing to be angry about here.  Its not personal.

 

Move on, don't look back.

Thanks for the insights...the family didn't go sooner because the kid was in the middle of the summer season and didn't want to open the can of worms about leaving the team-- the scheduled visit was the first open window between summer and fall seasons. Also, it's not easy (financially) for some to just pick up and fly across the country.

And yes, it is just business, and obviously a school is allowed to move on, make another offer, etc., but it doesn't seem out of the question to expect a heads-up, given that the school knew the family was en route, or at least to say, "The clock is now officially ticking,speak now or forever hold your peace."

As Fenway said, it's really about how players--or people--are treated, whether it's during the recruiting or when the niceities are done, the player is on campus and the reality of college baseball begins.  It's a big, bad world out there, but there are still some naive folks who only ask for a bit of humanity. 

 

They didn't rush you on purpose. Trust me, if you were their A recruit they would have told you to come. By you holding off, they may have figured that your son had other offers.  

It doesn't sound like being that far was a good fit anyway. 

All parents involved with baseball players need to purchase refundable tickets!!!!!

You might want to re-think your theory that the best school for your situation offers the most academic money.  My experience is the exact opposite.  The best schools often don't offer the most academic money because they don't have to, and because their applicant pool is so academically strong.  The only D1 schools that tried to incorporate academic money into their offers to my son were the ones where my son's academics were generally above those of the student applicant pool.  Just my experience, but I agree with your basic premise that the education piece should be a major factor in consideration.

 

Yes, this is exactly the experience we had with my daughter (non-athlete).  She got substantial academic scholarship offers from schools where her grades and scores were above the school averages, and she got no academic scholarship offers at schools where we felt fortunate she got accepted.  I don't know if an athlete is somehow able to change this equation but I doubt it.

Please go re-read all of the posts here.  This site is full of parents that have gone through nearly everything you can imagine and are offering good advice.  Its filled with parents who suffered their own speed bumps and worse...and rose above it to help their son get to a better place.

 

Its also filled with threads written by parents with similar situations as the one you described...parents who got their feelings hurt, got their nose out of joint...got screwed out of something but continued to be angry about their own issue and got stuck in molasses.  Most of us are trying to tell you that you need to understand how it works...put yourself in the coaches' shoes with their job on the line...see the process for what it is and then do your best with that.

 

Nearly the same situation also happens in reverse.  I'll give you a true example of how the same principle applies in reverse.  When our older son committed to his 'dream school,' he had 2 official visits lined up, tickets paid for the following 2 weekends.  In fact, we too had non-refundable tickets paid to join him on at least one of the two weekends.

 

What would you do if you were him?  Go on the trip anyways?  Of course not.  So he called the coaches and told them he had committed to someone else and that he wouldn't be coming on the visit.  That cost us $$...and it cost at least one of the two schools $$.  But was any other way better?  Artificially hold off his commitment to take the trips?  I don't think so.

 

This works both ways.  Your friend got caught in a not terribly unusual situation.  In reality, they did him a favor cause he was really only one of many they had for the spot on the team.  He was perhaps valued by them, but not uniquely valued and his family needs to understand that and move on.

 

If you, as a player or family, are going to get your nose out of joint by these things, you are woefully unprepared for the next level...and you are mega-woefully unprepared for the level after that (pro ball).  It is a business!!  Coaches are paid good salaries and they don't wanna lose their job...they have to recruit good players efficiently in order to build a team that can win.  It is not personal!!

 

The "fun" and politeness of youth baseball is over - your son...your friend's son just entered the real world.  Figure out how to deal with it or it isn't for him/you.

The used car salesman is funny but appropriate.  I've told this story so forgive me for repeating it.  My daughter was recruited from freshman year on by a D-I that we really liked.  She went to a camp and was outstanding.  In fact, he had her line up with his CF recruit who had verballed and there was no question that BB's arm, fielding technique etc. was better.  He then put her as SS and told everyone standing there that she could start at SS for most school in his conference.  All winter long, BB and the coaching staff keep in touch.  Naturally, they do follow NCAA Rules.  She gets the Christmas Card.  She gets the invite for the next camp.  We stop by each time we are in the area.  So, this coach now comes to a tournament to watch BB play.  He has seen her a dozen times by this time.  BB had an incredible tournament.  BB's TB Coach talks to him and tells him that BB will be headed down the following weekend and intends to verbal and finalize their offer.  They had made a big offer.  I call on Friday night before we were leaving to set up a time.  He tells me that there have been some changes.  His offer is now going to be a lot lower.  NOTE, this is the same coach who had been telling all of that conference's coaches that BB had verballed to his school even though she had not.  We had to jump back into the recruiting mix fast and the pressure was tough.  Still, things worked out for the best.  After BB's freshman year in college, this same coach called and mentioned that he had messed up and wanted to congratulate BB on her freshman year.  I really think he was wanting her to transfer.  Yes, used car salesman is an appropriate reference.  LOL!

       
       

I've been through the application process three times already.  Trust me. ;o)
My job add a parent is to make sure my kids aren't saddled with debt at a young age.

There's plenty of room for differences of opinion on this topic.  Check out Malcolm Gladwell's lectures on YouTube. He makes a strong case that the "Race to Nowhere" for Ivy League admissions doesn't benefit students, and that how you perform at school is more important than what school you attend.  He says you're better off in the long run, career-wise, if you graduate from the top of your class at State U than you are graduating from the bottom of your class at Penn.

Don't need to trust you, been through it too, with an athlete, and found the opposite true in every case we encountered.  Went through it with him dealing with schools ranging from those that would be considered middle tier (academically) public and private all the way to several schools routinely ranked in the top 25.  All D1 schools. 

 

I consider it my job as a parent to assist my child in understanding and weighing his options both athletically and academically and reconciling the two with potential debt load vs professional opportunity coming out as part of the equation.  I want to see him maximize his opportunity in all phases, all the while attempting to minimize the cost exposure.  To each his own.

Some of the sage veterans of this site have weighed in.  Swampboy, Fenway, Justbball, BOF, TPM, cabbage, CoachB25...incredible anecdotes and perspective.

 

We went through the process with our 2012.  He committed Labor Day weekend and didn't take a couple of official visits scheduled for the following weekends.  It cost us money and the coaches at those schools were very unhappy.

 

He also went on an official where the coach then refused to see him or take his calls after he traveled 3,000 miles to the school.  It was unbelievable.  We had to scramble to get him home.  That coach is now on his third school since so maybe the word is getting around. 

 

Sons have had offers presented on unofficial visits that totally surprised us.  They've had offers rescinded or reduced without warning.

 

We are going through the process again with our 2016.  There are some great coaches out there.  Honest, kind, committed to development and winning, etc.  There are some real jerks.  It's just like anywhere else.  We are older and wiser (or perhaps jaded is the word).  I'll believe my 2016 is at his college when he's in class there.  I'll believe he's on the Spring roster when I see him on the field.

^^^^

This sums it up pretty well.  Just because you've signed a NLI (let alone a verbal) doesn't mean you'll be on the team in Jan. of Freshman year.

I have been thru it a few times and it never ceases to amaze me how utterly slimy some coaches are. Conversely there are some good guys out there also. the process can be overwhelming and it can be very pleasing and gratifying, but it is my job as a parent to try and wade thru it and give my kid the very best advice possible. THAT is why I am on this site.

exactly!    

Sometimes the coaches will also wait to offer their athletic money to see how much Financial Aid a prospective player can get.  The Financial aid can sometimes be substantial.

We experienced that at a couple of schools as well.  On the one hand - it's great because barring a significant financial change, your financial aid package is set and you avoid the annual athletic package conversation and possible variance from the coach.  On the other hand, some would suggest that a non - athletic aid deal can suggest a lack of commitment to the player on the coach's part.  I think it varies school to school and is another reason the process can be difficult for many.

You make an important point concerning the academic portion of the choice. While there are some schools that will give you national mobility - Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Vandy, Duke, etc. - the ranking of a school in any degree you might pursue has to be viewed through a lens of where it is you plan to settle. For example, Indiana may be a much higher ranked school in, say engineering (this is purely fictional), but you plan to live and work in Mississippi, you may find, say Southern Miss to be a better option even when the program isn't as highly ranked. Why? A network of alumni usually hire their own.

Great point Root, I agree.

Your points are good - but can an 18-year old really make a decent decision about where he will live long term?  I sure could not have.  I would have a tendency not to weigh this very much for our own kids other than we probably 'leaned' towards more 'national' universities just cause it keeps a wider range of doors open down the road.

 

Also, Vandy and Duke in particular don't carry the same 'juice' out West as one might think.

 

(BTW, Indiana doesn't have an engineering program (yet) - but thats a nit...sorry, its my 'business' and OCD tendencies coming through.  They did approve starting one back in April - but that wasn't really the point anyways    )

I have been thru it a few times and it never ceases to amaze me how utterly slimy some coaches are.

I dunno - I have no family in the profession, but I will stick up for them as a whole and say that red word above isn't (IMO) a word I'd use.  Like every profession, there are good guys and bad guys...more good than bad by a fair amount.  The scenario posted above would not come close to my interpretation of that word though.

 

Just an opinion, nothing more.

The simple answer is you settle wherever you get the job.  When I graduated college with an engineering degree I didn't care where I went as long as I had a job. My son is getting his Masters in Electrical Engineering at University at Arkansas and interning right now in Oregon.  

If my son is fortunate to be able to pick between a few colleges that offer him a free ride then I will worry about location.  

if the above it is true it is an interesting thought, I mean honestly think about it, used car sales have one of the lowest respect levels of any career path, they will do or say about anything to make a deal. I have no doubt that there are good recruiters and good used car guys but the fact this reference is deemed to be accurate is a pretty bad reflection of the job.

 

 

With all of the corruption at the D1 level in bskball and football why should anyone think it would be any different in college baseball? Face it 60% of the job is getting in the best recruits, that is why this website is so great, it just helps even the playing field a bit. 

While agree with the jist of this post i think the one obvious point  is that Basketball and Football don't make claims that attitude and all of the intangibles are deal breaking important, they certainly aren't worried about grades - if you can play full rides are all around...baseball claims to to have a higher standard or at least that is what every high school coach, travel team and web site tells you. What other sport tells kids to get A's, no tat's, no beards and stay clean...as a condition of of playing! LOL certainly not FB or B-ball.

 

Don't get me wrong I hire young guys every week of the year at my business, I look for the same things as recruiters whenever possible. Hell I have hired kids for my business just by watching how they approach a baseball game...I think just being honest about it all is not to much to ask for.

Come on, it's not like he compared them to lawyers.

I have to admit that this is how I ended up in Colorado. When picking a law school I had to find a place that offered a good scholarship and was affordable for a family of five. Colorado offered a full ride and had family student housing. It was also a top 40 school. There were plenty of other offers to choose from. Places I would have loved to have gone, but didn't meet the criteria. Bolt Law School (Cal-Berkley), for example, offered a very hefty scholarship, but I couldn't afford housing in the area. Same for BC, Georgetown, and some others. In the end, I had to choose from schools where the scholarship money made it possible (I was 41 entering law school with three kids at home, so I couldn't take on a ton of debt) and had affordable housing in the area. That narrowed the list to Indiana, Colorado, William & Mary, and Washington & Lee. I could just as easily ended up living and practicing in Virginia or Indiana. I was from Little Rock. If I had planned to return to Little Rock then I would have been much better off going to UALR or the U of Arkansas over any of these much higher ranked schools.

LOL! If anyone isn't aware Root is a lawyer. I had a visit from the FBI on a bad lead a few years ago. An agent went through my cell. I have pictures connected to all phone numbers of friends. The two pictures that drew questions/suspicion were a lawyer and a congressman.

+1 on the refundable tickets! 

Whenever a firm offer is extended, the correct responses from which to choose include:

 

1.  "Thanks!  That's wonderful!  I accept!"

 

2.  "Thanks!  I am so grateful for your interest.  I have a great deal of respect for your school and your program, but to be honest, I didn't see this coming.  I'd like to think about this offer and talk it over with my parents.  When do you need to hear back from me?" 

 

The point of the latter option is to place the onus for the status of things on the college coaches.  If they've given you a firm date, and then they see another guy before that date arrives, their offer to him should be, "We are very interested but we need to see if we can put some money together for you.  Can we ask you to hold off on other offers until [date]?"

 

But when you leave it totally open ended, this is what can happen.